It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Originally posted by grover
This is something I can relate to in a personal way. I rent, and over the past month or so a gang has moved in upstairs and is in the process of turning my little corner into an open air drug market and prostituition center. They have muscle (2 men with a pitbull) hanging literally outside my livingroom and kitchen windows. I am an old hippy liberal but this is a beast of an entirely different color, its either meth, or crack or smack or all of the above (and this is as a rule a nice neighborhood, so this is an invasion) I have contacted the local neighborhood forum, the local crime watch commitee, my landlord, the police in gereral and the vice squad, the local newspaper, businesses and tv stations. There is not much more that I can do without drawing attention to myself that would put my life in danger and the police say that they cannot raid without probable cause (though if you were to ask anyone within 2 blocks of here they would tell you what is happening) so while I am a firm believer in the police or other instituitions foloowing strict guidelines, this brings the situition home in a way that abstractions never will.
Same thing when an accused person confesses. The confession should be valid with or without a lawyer.
Originally posted by WyrdeOne
Same thing when an accused person confesses. The confession should be valid with or without a lawyer.
Big difference. A confession obtained improperly should never be admissible.
Originally posted by jsobecky
Originally posted by grover
This is something I can relate to in a personal way. I rent, and over the past month or so a gang has moved in upstairs and is in the process of turning my little corner into an open air drug market and prostituition center. They have muscle (2 men with a pitbull) hanging literally outside my livingroom and kitchen windows. I am an old hippy liberal but this is a beast of an entirely different color, its either meth, or crack or smack or all of the above (and this is as a rule a nice neighborhood, so this is an invasion) I have contacted the local neighborhood forum, the local crime watch commitee, my landlord, the police in gereral and the vice squad, the local newspaper, businesses and tv stations. There is not much more that I can do without drawing attention to myself that would put my life in danger and the police say that they cannot raid without probable cause (though if you were to ask anyone within 2 blocks of here they would tell you what is happening) so while I am a firm believer in the police or other instituitions foloowing strict guidelines, this brings the situition home in a way that abstractions never will.
grover
The only thing I can suggest is that you somehow find someone in the police dep't that will take your situation seriously. Go as far up the chain as necessary. You can't tackle those types alone, very difficult. Don't reveal yourself; Don't endanger yourself; the worst that could happen is that you will have to move. But you shouldn't have to do so, imo.
Thank you josbecky...That is exactly what i am trying to do...as I mentioned earlier I have contacted my landlord, the vice squad, the local neighborhood forum, the local crime watch committee, individual neighbors, neighborhood businesses, the local TV stations and the local paper and will continue pressuring the police. I know I can't take them on alone and I have no intention of trying, but I also know that the police won't take it seriously unless the whole neighborhood is involved and that is what I am trying. I live in the local neighborhood center, and we have always had some problems but generally it is a nice area with a mix of rental and owned property (I am one of the local eccentrics and as such am well known LOL) plus it is a major city throughfare from the burps to downtown so it won't last. But I am going to be careful, learned years agao I am not a fighter. Thanks for the concern though. appericate it.
Good luck...
Originally posted by WyrdeOne
Same thing when an accused person confesses. The confession should be valid with or without a lawyer.
Big difference. A confession obtained improperly should never be admissible.
When the police are looking for 'some black guy' and they happen to find one, what's preventing them from leaning on him until he confesses? What's to prevent the cops from promising the moon and the stars in exchange for a confession, and then pulling the rug out from under the one who confessed?
The cops like confessions, it makes their job a whole hell of a lot easier.
If they have to beat you with a phone book, or promise you a private cell, or threaten you with castration to get it, who cares, right? I mean, as long as it's not happening to you...
They say "You can confess to this robbery, or we can pin these six unsolved murders on you - your choice." What's an innocent man to do?
I can understand doing away with the formality of a ten-second waiting period between the announcement and entry, but this is a whole different issue you're raising.
Originally posted by semperfortis
It is amazing how often when you knock, they just say "come in." Then there is no obligation to wait any longer. I still hold the Knock, Announce and wait is necessary except under certain circumstances.
Semper
Originally posted by Carseller4
Good point!
But there are times when a criminal is apprehended and starts running his mouth and confessess. Then all of a sudden they lawyer up and recant their confession.
Remember Joseph Coury?
But you are right, I wouldn't put this in the same category...as of now.
Originally posted by Open_Minded Skeptic
I see this as a very dangerous decision. Grim, you have a good point about the difference in the degree of 'justice' the Court seems to promote. It appears justice is only for the few.
And the comments both you guys have made show what I believe is a major impetus behind this... the so-called war on drugs. You both spoke of 'flushing evidence down the toilet'. What other kind of evidence is likely to be flushable?
So we have the increased possibility of police busting into homes without first identifying themselves. This could very easily result in immediate escalation into severe violence, with high possibility of deaths, both of officers and citizens. Officers in the execution of their jobs. Quite possibly innocent citizens.
And for what? Is a drug bust worth an officer's life? Especially if the amounts involved are so miniscule that they could be flushed effectively? I respectfully submit not.
Add in the virtual certainty of hitting the occasional wrong house, and the occasional 'bad' warrant, i.e. issued via corruption in high places. Probably not a large number of either of these, but 1 is too many.
I just don't think the potential costs are worth it. I see this more as another creeping step on the road of diminished freedom. Especially in light of the fact this decision is a 180-degree departure from legal precedent of what, around 100 years? Something on that order.
I consider this to be a terrible decision. Sadly, I am not surprised by it.