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Originally posted by grimreaper797
I just find it way too suspicious. Its pretty random with all the big issues going on. Not only is it random but just the entire situation in general is very suspicious. The comments, the 5-4 vote again. I just dont see the urgency of this issue. I think that if the warrent already has no knock on there, then obviously thats local law conflicting with federal law, in which local wins.
Otherwise it should be a knock. Now you dont need to knock at all, regardless of the accusations. Combine that with the terrorism accusation and what you have is a raid, which the cops in the raid do not need to identify themselves, or knock. They can simply bust in, arrest you, and take you away. And the cops dont have to tell anybody whats going on, especially if they accuse you of being a terrorist. I think Identification is the most important part here. If they simply just said, this is the police then busted in I would feel more comfortable. I think they should still identify themselves, even if they bust in after 2 seconds.
Originally posted by semperfortis
Does anyone know which case was presented to the Supreme Court that caused them to review the Knock/No-Knock issue?
What was the original case/charge/appeal?
Originally posted by Open_Minded Skeptic
semper... I'd like to ask your professional opinion on a few points (Might as well take advantage of the guy in the know... )
I'd like to ask you to set aside for a moment your personal feelings (as best you can, anyway), and answer as a professional in the field.
1) Is it your opinion that a significant number of raid teams (for lack of a better term) will deliberately move toward NOT knocking/announcing, as the standard of operation?
If your answer to that one is a true 'No', then the rest are pretty much meaningless.
2) Do you think the hard core types, big time druggies and what not, will start being more 'immediately armed', and ready to resist with violence (if they are going to at all, anyway)?
3) Do you think the raid teams might be even more tense than you must be now, if they start not knocking as a matter of course?
4) Do you think not knocking as a matter of course will affect the safety, not only of the officers involved, but of other, totally innocent (children) people that may be on the scene?
5) If 4 is Yes, do you think it will be an improvement or a degradation of safety?
I am troubled by this decision. I see the potential for severe abuse (NOT the certainty, but the potential) here. If the system works perfectly - it's always the right house, it's always a legitimate warrant, etc, then OK, but I'm a little concerned about the "If" part.
Also, I've been trying to find where the amount of drugs was specified? The only mention I've heard so far is "a small amount". Was it in the link you posted and I'm just blind today?
My dad was a State Police office in the state where I grew up. I wish he was still around to ask about this...
Anyway, I'll most appreciate any thoughts you may have on the above questions... Thanks!
Originally posted by grover
This is something I can relate to in a personal way. I rent, and over the past month or so a gang has moved in upstairs and is in the process of turning my little corner into an open air drug market and prostituition center. They have muscle (2 men with a pitbull) hanging literally outside my livingroom and kitchen windows. I am an old hippy liberal but this is a beast of an entirely different color, its either meth, or crack or smack or all of the above (and this is as a rule a nice neighborhood, so this is an invasion) I have contacted the local neighborhood forum, the local crime watch commitee, my landlord, the police in gereral and the vice squad, the local newspaper, businesses and tv stations. There is not much more that I can do without drawing attention to myself that would put my life in danger and the police say that they cannot raid without probable cause (though if you were to ask anyone within 2 blocks of here they would tell you what is happening) so while I am a firm believer in the police or other instituitions foloowing strict guidelines, this brings the situition home in a way that abstractions never will.
Originally posted by semperfortis
WHEW!!! Well I will try, but remember I am only one man with one man's opinions and can not speak for all of the Emergency Response teams. (SWAT) I am also going to "tell" a couple of SWAT stories on my blog coming up, so I don't want to give too much away.
Gotta go, dinner is ready. Hope this helps.
Originally posted by grover
thanks semper....fortunately they have been in no wise threatening to me YET, but if it continues unchecked (like I said this is a nice neighborhood) it will happen since it is right outside my door, literally. They may not technically be a gang as in crips/bloods type of thing, but there are people involved as opposed to a person, they have muscle, a runner or two etc. so in my book they are a gang. A friend asked if I was sure they weren't just dealing pot and I said potheads don't behave like this, what happens when ya get stoned, ya raid the refridgerator, pig out and fall asleep and they don't behave like that, besides they are a totally different (more threatening) caliber of person, never heard the word threatening in relation to a stoner before unless you are standing between them and a bag of doritos.
But back to topic sorta: Knock and announce as far as I am concerned should be the rule, not the exception, but as always there are exceptions, such as in gangs and drugs and the danger that they are either armed or that they will flush the evidence if they have advance warning. Generally speaking those and more dangerous senerios breaking in should be allowed (I think) for every case there is always the exception, trouble is once a precadent is set, using it as an excuse is always tempting. On one hand rights need to be respected, on the other laws need to be inforced, drawing a line is always difficult, unless you are some armchair pundit who has no clue unless one comes up and bites them in the ass.