Matrix is almost right

I don't buy the matrix theory for a second. Reason being, and this may sound silly.. but look at things as simple as dribble spit.. poop.. sex.. love... hate... envy... greed.

Do you REALLY think a system of robots can manipulate love, hate, envy, or greed? I don't. I don't think they have any comprehension of such things because they would have no energy, no soul. They are in fact not alive. They are as much alive as a rock. They are nothing, they will NEVER be able to understand such things. There you have it,

Its not that robots control us...something much more sinister. Imagine the world with 12 levels of heaven created by the Aeons (beings of light). Now imagine a lesser world with 7 levels and a "God" (Archons which are a corruption of the higher light and goodness) on each one. Then imagine that we are on the lowest level currently (3rd dimension) and unless we break free of the seven lower realms, we will be stuck in them for eternity. This is what "gnosis" or enlightenment, etc is referring to. The awakening of consciousness is a metaphor for God-realization and humanity's purpose on this planet. Seek and you will find the answer to all of life's questions.

[edit on 16-6-2006 by biggie smalls]

Are you talking about Tibetan Buddhism? Where does the bardo fit in?

This is not really my philosophy as none of the ideas are original, however it is a combination of multiple teachings which I can safely call my own. I don't believe anyone thinks in the exact same way right . As for my influences...they seem to be a melting pot of eastern and western mysticism (celtic, egyptian, jewish, japanese, native american, and indian). I'll explain further when I have the time to write a complete entry (I'm going to bed soon sorry).

Biggie Smalls,
How do you recommend getting to the upper levels? Is meditation enough? As you say seek the truth and you shall find it... But what does seeking the truth entail, just reading/viewing and digesting the information your intuition tells you to attain?



[edit on 16-6-2006 by Raoul Duke]

I find this theory ridiculous because if indeed we are in a system, the only thing that changes is that it turns out our feelings, etc. are artificial. We still grow, feel pain, emotions, etc. When we work out, we get stronger. We still have jobs, an economy, a president, wars, this list could go on for an eternity. If you get out and live a little more, you'd probably realize why the theory sounds totally ridiculous. Are you out of highschool? I don't mean that as an insult, but I find that younger teenagers and stuff usually wind up coming up with these sorts of theories. It could be that people don't get real rights until they're 18, can't drive until they're 16, but they have that urge to get out and live when they're 15. They feel trapped, so a lot of weird stuff goes on psychologically. That, or they start partying and drinking...

Anyway, if this is all a system, then how would one find out? A lot of people claim to see the future in their dreams, and an even larger amount of people experience de ja vu. Research de ja vu and you'll find tons of information. I guess I just feel that if this is some sort of system (Which I believe it's not), there's no way anybody could ever find out because if we did, the system could just implant new memories into us or something. There would be no way to escape it and no way to realize that it's there.

no way i buy the matrix theory..

i mean if this world is truly controlled by machines or some system and you seem to believe that we should all open our eyes to the truth what does that make you? You spreading the word all out shouldnt those feds be after you right about now?

i got to get a pair of those glasses

[edit on 17-6-2006 by Ignorance_is_Bliss]

I dont buy the matrix theory either.

Even if it was true I wouldnt really care reality is what you make of it.

To quote my favorite Barbarian

Let teachers and priests and philosophers brood over questions of reality and illusion. I know this: if life is an illusion, then I am no less an illusion, and being thus, the illusion is real to me. I live, I burn with life, I love, I slay, and I am content. (Howard, Queen of the Black Coast, Weird Tales, May 1934).

[edit on 17-6-2006 by ShadowXIX]

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
I dont buy the matrix theory either.

Even if it was true I wouldnt really care reality is what you make of it.

To quote my favorite Barbarian

Let teachers and priests and philosophers brood over questions of reality and illusion. I know this: if life is an illusion, then I am no less an illusion, and being thus, the illusion is real to me. I live, I burn with life, I love, I slay, and I am content. (Howard, Queen of the Black Coast, Weird Tales, May 1934).

[edit on 17-6-2006 by ShadowXIX]

That's exactly what I was trying to say.

When I think about the Matrix being 'real', or the movie being an allegory of sorts, I don't think about giant squid-robots controlling us, I think about the holographic universe theory.

The physical universe as a projection, or representation, of which our consciousness is 'plugged in', so to speak. We hold an apple, but how do we know the apple is there? Because electrical signals from our brain tell us we can feel it in our hand, and see it with our eyes, and taste it with our mouth, and smell it with our nose.... So what if it was just the electrical signals that existed, and not the apple?....


twm.co.nz...

Just so you know I totally agree with you. On the sense that after doing all those things you finally come to the realization that you are CONTENT.

Content: Something contained, as in a receptacle. Desiring no more than what one has; satisfied.

I really dont like the word content. Beign free sounds much better at least in theory.
Free: Not affected or restricted by a given condition or circumstance. Not fixed in position; capable of relatively unrestricted motion.

One question for anyone? If reality is as concrete as we have been condition to think off, than why is imagination our most practical quality as human beigns?

Imagination is the formation of a mental image of something that is neither perceived as real nor present to the senses. Is what allows us Humans to develop tools to "control our envieroment", or the language to "comunicate". I found this very peculiar.

The Hollograpgic Universe is an Exelent Read!





And I understood Every bit of it :-)




I also have Many Dreams of Places and People I've never seen yet they seem so Close and Familier, Really makes you think..Where does all this Elaborate info come from? if your Mind can Create these Worlds in real time on the Fly in Dreams, Everything is a Whole and I have Lived Somany Lives all in The Present At the Same time, its all Connected.

[edit on 17-6-2006 by TrentReznor]

The most logical explanation for déjà vu is that there is a slight malfunctioning between the long and short-term memory circuits of the brain. Somehow, specific information shortcuts its way from short to long-term memory storage, bypassing the usual mechanisms used for storage transfer. The details concerning this shortcut are not yet well understood. When this new, recent piece of information is drawn upon, the person thinks that the piece is coming from long-term storage and so must have come from the distant past. A similar theory says that the error is in the timing of the perceptive and cognitive processes. Sensory information is rerouted on its way to memory storage and, so, is not immediately perceived. This short delay causes the sensation of experiencing and remembering something at the same time, a very unsettling feeling. One other explanation is that déjà vu is actually the process of remembering memory connections, of following the impulses and synapses. All of these neurobiologically based explanations for déjà vu seem plausible and intriguing and perhaps there is some overlap or combination that accounts for the different experiences we call déjà vu.
Sinds we know so little about the human brain we cant say for sure that this is really the cause for déjà vu,however this could happen and will have the same effect so this has a high possibility of beiing the reason behind al this.Even more so then some hollywood movieproducers imagination.

I'm not particularly adept at contributing to existential discussions, but this is how I feel about it.

Assume, for the sake of making a point to yourself, that nothing is real or, indeed, that nothing even exists. Then ask yourself what you're left with. Even if it could be argued that consciousness itself is nothing more than an amalgamation of signals that create a specific configuration resulting in just enough feedback and purposive function to create the illusion of self-awareness, your reality is nonetheless that you are self-aware from your own perspective. You possess the ability to make choices, regardless of whether those choices are real or simply in a computer, on a holodeck, or nowhere at all. You are free to make choices and decisions, or something like them.

Now assume, for the sake of making a point to yourself, that everything is both real and unreal, and that all reality(ies) is(are) inherently permeable. Then ask yourself what you're left with. You're left with the same thing: choices.

Choose to do what you feel is right and/or good both for your own sake and the sake of others (even if you can't be sure they exist, it's still preferable to take a "just in case" attitude in order to ameliorate or prevent suffering and conflict, I would imagine.) Whether real or unreal, you still possess the powers of choice and the utilization of creative energy, whether the elements involved in those choices and that energy exist precisely as we perceive them or not.

A question I ask myself when thinking along these lines is, "Why do I care about the wellbeing of others, and why do I not wish to see others suffer, if it is possible that nothing is real?" Asking that question tells me that even though reality may not necessarily be what we believe it to be, I still have choices to make about how I treat other people/illusions/systems/entities.

[edit on 17-6-2006 by AceWombat04]

The movie "The Matrix" seems to be showing us how to avoid the Klipoth; but the irony of it is, as I already pointed out, that said movie is more likely to land us in the Klipoth(which we're already in psychologically) instead of showing us the way out.

Got that right, I think it's a great movie but spiritually I cringed when they took it to that usual garbage trip of being The One or whatever 4D emo drama will pull at the need to 'be somebody' and therefore keep the whole illusion going. Lose the freedom-fighter need, there is no enemy. Just know that there is nothing to do, it's here now and it always has been.


That said - it was also like watching old trips I had - years ago (as in waaay before The Matrix was even planned) I did things such as used the Harvard version of the Bardo Thodol for exploration purposes, one recurrant theme I would experience was the idea that I was plugged into some kind of simulation, but not the same as in the film. I would feel things like electrical crackling inside my head and neck and body, and I put it down to cellular consciousness because it felt like the real me was extremely small and controlling this vast network of cells that made up my body.

There are definitely beings that although more advanced (in the same sense that humans with no brain and less intelligence can spy on animals in a controlled situation) are not able to understand anything at all, and they do watch and they do try to control things - same as non-scientists that do same to animals. And they do work through people. They think everything is only done in the context of some script they all work to and it doesn't matter what anyone does or says because they will interpret that too only in terms of their '4D emo drama'.

Originally posted by VelvetSplash

The physical universe as a projection, or representation, of which our consciousness is 'plugged in', so to speak. We hold an apple, but how do we know the apple is there? Because electrical signals from our brain tell us we can feel it in our hand, and see it with our eyes, and taste it with our mouth, and smell it with our nose.... So what if it was just the electrical signals that existed, and not the apple?....


twm.co.nz...

Yeah, but we can also get hungry, eat that apple, and get full. If the apple was all we had to eat for a month and we didn't eat it (Or probably even if we did), we would die. So if life is just an "Illusion", then that's all it ever has been and probably all it ever will be. George Washington, Da Vinci, everybody's lived in this illusion and done great things. It would mean that all of the progress mankind has made has always been just an illusion. If that's the case, then who cares? Of course, I'm certain that it's not the case, but it's interesting to ponder.

Deja Vu is really interesting. It's not like how it was shown in this film though - the film showed a cat, then the same cat again right after. Deja Vu really is more when you feel like you're saying and doing things you have said and done before the same way - except you actually haven't, or if you had you have no memory of it happening before. Even when it feels like you experienced it before you still never have the actual memory of where or when that might have occured.
Another feature of it is that you seem to be engaging in something without having to really think about it - it's almost like it has been mapped out already and you are just moving through that bit of timespace, as if it's been lived for you already. But it's not precognitive! It's a now-moment thing.

One that happened to me was when I was young and got taken to some new carwash place. I'd never been there and never heard of it at all, but it felt the whole time like the weirdest feeling ever and also like I'd been there before.

A similar feeling I get when some people talk to me, usually I don't know them, and when they talk to me my ears suddenly pop (like on a plane) and I can't hear what they are saying at all, and usually have to guess so I can reply something. As soon as they or I am away or they stop talking to me I can hear perfectly well again. This is rare but it's happened enough times and consistently so that I know there is something not right about what is triggering it.

Rubbish. If this were true then the world population could not increase or decrease. If there is a static number of souls.. and we have BILLIONS Of people alive today.. and only millions in the past. where were all those souls then?

Just think about it. DejaVu is just a form of precognition. Yes we have lived other lifetimes..but if we lived the same ones over and over again then the world would be the same throughoug history and Hitler would have come to power and started a holocost many times over.

It just doesnt add up. Its fun to think that the fantasy is your reality but its just not true.

Aw, another guy... Sorry, 'kid'... who've watched WAY too much television, plus hit puberty.

We had a guy a few weeks ago who came in and told us about how the matrix is the real thing and how he could save us all if we just listened. We listened, but then he started to resemble Neo to Jesus and told us to start believing in the christian religion. I'm sure you won't promote religions in this thread, only share your experience and beliefs... But if I had to guess for one thing; You are about 13-14 years old.

Tell me how I can age and learn new things if every day is restarted. Tell me how I can remember things I have done. If I traveled to some foreign country and slept at a hotel, would I wake up in my own bed the next day?

As Majic said; "Look within, and see beyond."

I would like to express my own opinion on this topic.

Actually, I accepted the idea of "matrix" with an open mind. I would have abandoned this theory but so far I haven't faced any convincing reasoning that would just burn it down. Seriously, every time I read something against this idea I try to come up with an explanation how it could fit the system of "matrix".

The near future will bring us the possibility to scan human brains and recreate them in a digital environment. This is not a utopian mumbo-jumbo, I've read such claims made by scientists. Currently, our technology is limited and not capable of doing it but, taking into account that quantum computer is only a matter of time, such claims sound very credible.

To my mind, being able to recreate the processes that happen in human brains, scientists could easily develop the AI that would be superior to human intelligence. I suppose, it's also only a matter of time when the whole history and possesed knowledge of human beings will be stored as 0 and 1. Then who could prevent the new and magnificent AI from learning everything known by the humankind? If you're going to contest me on this, please bear in mind that even nowadays the primitive and "dumb" AI is capable of learning and collecting experience. The capabilities of future AI are freaky to imagine, to say the least.

Ok, now let's go with the scary scenario This is very philosophical and I'm not a keen believer of what I'm going to say, though, it's an interesting idea anyway. What if we are part of the AI, existing in the virtual world that was described by 0 and 1's before the all-mighty AI took over? What if each of us is an individual tiny program? Could the world around us be more like an Operating System which is reset everytime when the written history of humankind reaches the moment of AI taking control?

It was said, how could one explain the growing population. Well, I could ask you, how difficult can it be to switch on or off a program? To run a new one? That's trivial. Another argument made was about feelings, all kinds of senses. How can you be sure that what you feel is real and not the expression of how AI perceived it? Furthermore, correct me if I'm wrong but I think Japanese are already developing a TV that could convey smells, right? To convey something, they first of all have to describe the smell in the binary way.

This whole "matrix"-like idea does not even require actual humans being kept in some containers. What I posted is just a tiny bit of endless possibilities how our "world" might have been developed by AI, although, as I said, I'm not a blind believer. I just can't allow myself to rule out something without proper consideration.