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ATS is COINTELPRO: Put to Rest for Good!

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posted on Jun, 15 2006 @ 03:27 PM
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I dont see Springer thanking you yet,
and i do care, because this is my board home... i devote my side time to it, and have developed some great threads of research...

People like you who "Dont care" are the problem...

if you cared, you could look up simon grays Podcast in the podcast section, and answer all your own questions without crapping in our living room again...

Try the podcast, because i dont see the admins trying to answer this yet again...




posted on Jun, 15 2006 @ 03:28 PM
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Originally posted by ignorant_ape
you clearly dont believe what simon etal have stated previously about the history of ATS , why would you believe any further statements they make ???


Cool..so he HAS written a history - could you please quote the link? That's all this thread is about. Heck - if it already exists, I say just point me to the link and kill this stupid thread, throw it in the trash.



sir -- i have met your sort before , and your motives and methods disgust me

you sir -- are a muck raking troll -- and you want dirt on ATS but are not prepared to dig yourself .

shame on you .


Yes, I've met your sort before too. You, however, don't know me and you have no idea what my motives are - hence your disgust is unfounded. If I was not prepared to dig myself, I wouldn't have gone through all of the crap I've gone through already throughout this entire investigation (this ATS issue is only a sidebar to that)...and if I wasn't willing to DIG FOR MYSELF I wouldn't be here.. Back the F off.


-Ry



posted on Jun, 15 2006 @ 03:29 PM
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I don't understand why this would need to be public. Could you not U2U them ? I am sure they would have worked with you.

I would think after the last episode you would have U2Ued them.



posted on Jun, 15 2006 @ 03:31 PM
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Originally posted by LazarusTheLong
I dont see Springer thanking you yet,
and i do care, because this is my board home... i devote my side time to it, and have developed some great threads of research...


Yeah...well guess what it's not yours alone. I devote my side time to it (quite possibly longer days than you do - believe it or not) - and your arrogance is unfounded. I care just as much (if not more) about ATS - which is why I'm even here asking these questions in the first place.


-Ry



posted on Jun, 15 2006 @ 03:35 PM
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Originally posted by SpittinCobra
I don't understand why this would need to be public. Could you not U2U them ? I am sure they would have worked with you.

I would think after the last episode you would have U2Ued them.


You're probably right...I was trying to provide an Open discussion (you know, fair and balanced) - where the argument that Dr. Webre presented to me for not trusting ATS could be aired out and disproven in public.

I'll be honest though - at this point I believe you're right. Definitely shouldn't have bothered. In here, most good intentions are beat to a pulp and turned upside down. Truly un-f.ing-believable.

-Ry



posted on Jun, 15 2006 @ 03:36 PM
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Then stop your insults of our members, and admins...
stop your muckraking, and go listen to the podcast...

and BTW, isn't it a possible theory that www.realityuncovered.com...
is COINTELPRO? and its members spys?

its that easy to point fingers... and now its on google...
good luck with that...



posted on Jun, 15 2006 @ 04:37 PM
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As spiderj say. So would i say, what would the best conspiracy site in THE WORLD be if it didn’t have its own internal conspiracy.


Originally posted by ZeddicusZulZorander
I think the owners of ATS would rather, people judge for themselves. There is no fear of the truth.
.........

You (the reader) decide which logic you respect or trust.


Exactly.

The nature of this site is anonymous. It might be COINTELPRO it might not.

All i can say is that the guy’s n girls that run ats have always come across as fair and sincere throughout the 2 years i have been here.

But can i REALLY trust someone called SkepticOverlord or Springer or even ZeddicusZulZorander. lol or even rdube02.

Different matter if you was Dave Richards from Battersea who works as a system administrator for a legitimate company. But their not. I don’t know who they are. I don’t know who anyone here is. It’s for me the member to decide for myself on what i have observed and form my own opinion, as Zed said.

Would i feel more comfortable if the three amigos stepped out into the open? NO/YES/NO it would spoil the fun now wouldn’t it really. In this case i think the truth is, that even if they did step out into the open there would still be those that would doubt, the doubting Thomas, oh no i cant say that anymore because apparently he wasn’t according to one of the many interesting, informative and entertaining threads on ats.

This really is by far the most interesting place to be on the Internet. As far as im concerned this is what the net was built for. The coming together of minds. You shouldn’t get so angry about this question you know. It’s only bloody natural for a healthily paranoid individual to question who he or she is really dealing with. Is it not?

kode...... an original thread killer.



posted on Jun, 15 2006 @ 04:48 PM
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Originally posted by Spiderj
First rdube let me say, wow really good work you've obviously put a lot of time into this. It really is one of the great conspiracies.



COULD Abovetopsecret be a government project such as is described in this paper? Sure - why not? Is it? That's what we need to find out now, isn't it?


It's a very interesting point but this would seem to be a very wide net being thrown out...though instead of infiltrating a group you make a group to be infiltrated by those individuals you wish to observe.

Springer helped you with the bandwith to get the interview streamed...would someone working an op do that? Maybe maybe not, arguments could be made both ways.

I personally don't think ATS is any government op. I also think it wouldn't be a very good conspiracy site if there wasn't a conspiracy about the conspiracy site, oroboros and all that.

Good work, and again I know my input doesn't count but I had two cents so there they are.

Spiderj

Who cares? either way id still ocme here an dhang out. Interesting stuff on here, CointelPro or not




posted on Jun, 15 2006 @ 04:51 PM
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Originally posted by rdube02

All of the points you bring up concerning Laura and her website are absolutely true, and I'm glad to see it pointed out here. However she's spread this nonsense freely for some time without any counter from ATS (as far as I could see) - and I'd like to see ATS kill these rumors once and for all.

-Ry



For the EXACT SAME REASON we ignored slurpo, we ignore this psychopath... It only gives it fee publicity when we mention it or respond.
That and there is no way to disprove negative.

Springer...

[edit on 6-15-2006 by Springer]



posted on Jun, 15 2006 @ 05:00 PM
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Wow. Some pretty heated opinions in here. I see most of the heat being directed at Ry and to be perfectly honest I'm at a bit of loss as to understand why.

I didn't know Ry was going to be posting about this subject, but I do know he was mightily pissed off to find people like Webre quoting the LKJ bullcrap as if it was fact. All he is trying to do is set the record straight and he's taken a right kicking as a result.

For the "make sh*t up crowd" a la SOTT a lot of the reaction in this thread would be music to their [empty space between the] ears. "Why kick up such a fuss if there's nothing to it?" would be their likely refrain. I understand people get upset about different things, but man - sometimes it goes too far also.

I remember seeing a large thread in here a little while back that discussed the garbage spouted by Laura and her ilk - Ry obviously hadn't seen that thread and a simple link pointing him in the right direction might have been more helpful than just simply trying to score points.

Cheers,
Zep



posted on Jun, 15 2006 @ 05:03 PM
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If I remember correctly, a little while back, someone had posted a link to some Australian site that claimed ATS was a CIA cover and that Simon Grey was a 33 degree freemason or some other crap like that. It was a pretty ridiculous site, but was amusing to read.

Does this LKJ chick have anything to do with them?



posted on Jun, 15 2006 @ 05:12 PM
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Who cares? either way id still ocme here an dhang out. Interesting stuff on here, CointelPro or not


Just want to be anal for a second and point out (not that anybody cares) that this was miami's comment on my post and not in my original post.

I know it was just how it came out on the page and these things happen all the time, just want to point that out.

Spiderj



posted on Jun, 15 2006 @ 05:16 PM
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Decided that it is probably innocent enough in retrospect to ask for originations of this. Edited to remove some of the harshness. Thanks.

[edit on 6/15/06 by niteboy82]



posted on Jun, 15 2006 @ 05:17 PM
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I hadn't read all of this yet before i replied above... Shew!

I am very grateful for the support of the Membership here (WOW!) but Rdube's intentions were NOT to stir up the nest again or accuse... His intention was to have a public disproval of something utterly unworthy of a public display of any sort. An honest mistake.

Simon's story is on the podcast as pointed out. There's also a short version in our 3Amigo's blog...

He was a highschool kid when he started ATS with a collection of articles he wrote on military weapons and UFO lore they are all in the archives.

Springer...


[edit on 6-15-2006 by Springer]



posted on Jun, 15 2006 @ 05:23 PM
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The Never-Ending Conspiracy

Note: I'm addressing this post to the phenomenon of "ATS COINTELPRO" claims, not to anyone in particular.

I know these sorts of accusations are somewhat painful to the owners and staff of ATS.

It's frustrating to pour your heart and soul into a project like this and have people who don't know a damn thing about you blather on and on with one false accusation after another, publicly defaming you and posting lies about you.

And what sucks about these sorts of claims is that they are virtually impossible to disprove.

The classic Monty Python witch analogy really nails the principle.

The owners of ATS are very much aware that there are some individuals who seek to use the prominence of this community to grandstand and try to scam publicity by talking trash about them.

Thus, whenever possible, they seek to thwart these efforts by -- at their discretion -- removing the more flagrant cases.

This naturally leads to allegations of a cover-up, and the cycle begins anew.

Those Who Know

I've worked with the senior staff of ATS as a Councilor starting a year ago, and now as a moderator. I get to see how they behave "behind closed doors" and have a very intimate view of how ATS is run behind the scenes.

I've been a member here for almost two years now. I've made over 6200 posts on ATS, and I'm not known for one-liners, to put it mildly.


I suppose it might be possible for someone to post as much as I've posted and not reveal their true personality, but I assure you there's no way in hell that *I* can.

Those who claim that ATS is some sort of government operation are effectively claiming that I'm complicit in it by being a staff member.

The Truth

The problem is, as staff members, we know better. We know it's utter nonsense, and anyone who's been here since the "early days" knows it too.

As staff members, we know what ATS policy is through and through. We discuss all sorts of things with the Amigos, we see how decisions are made, and what drives them, and we're a very close online family.

We are the staff of AboveTopSecret.com, and we know the truth about ATS.

And the truth is that the Amigos are precisely who they say they are, and ATS has nothing to do with any government.

ATS is exactly what we say it is: an online community dedicated to the discussion of conspiracy and alternative topics.

That's the truth.

Claims to the contrary are lies.

Who To Believe

But no good conspiracy theorist would think of taking my word for it, and I don't think anyone should.

Rather, in my opinion, the best thing to do is go ahead and assume that ATS *is* run by the government.

You don't have to trust us.

But ask yourself this: if ATS was run by the government, what would you do differently as an ATS member?

When do we as staff members ever tell people what to think?

Do we have a pattern of censoring anti-government posts? Do we have a pattern of censoring pro-government posts?

I don't see it, and I'm a moderator.

We go by the T&C here. Period.

So please feel free to not believe me.

But please, please before making claims about the ownership and staff of ATS, try to make a reasonable effort to ensure that they are true.

That's not too much to ask.





P.S. And um, please... let's not be rude to one another. Whether you think ATS is a COINTELPRO operation or not, we have all agreed to not insult each other per the T&C. My warn finger is a bit sore from the UFO/turkey vulture thread, so please, let's just be nice.


[edit on 6/15/2006 by Majic]



posted on Jun, 15 2006 @ 05:40 PM
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Originally posted by Springer
His intention was to have a public disproval of something utterly unworthy of a public display of any sort. An honest mistake.

[edit on 6-15-2006 by Springer]


Still qualifies as a reason for me to apologize to Ry...
I apologize Ry, I am sorry for accusing you of less than honorable intentions...
If your intention is good enough for Springer, then i give the benefit of doubt

Please think thru your printed words though... I ask you out of respect for this board, and its members as much as for the admins,

Google is like the energizer bunny, and your words will exist forever... and suspicions also...
this is some peoples hobby interest, and some peoples lifeblood... it is unfair to sabotage either.



posted on Jun, 15 2006 @ 06:07 PM
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I just screwed Shawnna's post up... I thought I was quoting and I was accidentaly editing... Does anyone have a copy of the original? This is NOT what Shawnna wrote and its my fault.


originally posted by Shawnna:

Personally, it's sad that ATS's position within Google searches ends up dictating what is, and is not, discussed within ATS. Seems to me that this will ultimately have an impact on the quality of the discussions at some point.


Always,
Shawnna


Not a chance of that happening, exactly the opposite actually... Anything worth discussing gets the benefit, everything else is inconsequential. The only things that aren't worth discussing are hoaxes, once the membership has decided they are hoaxes, heck we still have the biggest thread on slurpo by far, over 5,000 posts in it. Hoaxes and false, personal attacks on the staff that is.



Springer...


[edit on 6-15-2006 by Springer]

[edit on 6-15-2006 by Springer]



posted on Jun, 15 2006 @ 06:45 PM
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Originally posted by Majic
The Never-Ending Conspiracy
Those who claim that ATS is some sort of government operation are effectively claiming that I'm complicit in it by being a staff member.


No, you don’t nor do any of the other mods necessarily have to be in on it. SO or Springer don’t necessarily have to be in on it.

Im not trying to be awkward or further the COINTELPRO conspiracy im just doing what an ats member does give my honest opinion. I have huge respect for all of you.

At the end of the day i feel the general consensus here is that it doesn’t really matter. At the end of the day we are ALL here because we enjoy what we are doing, in house conspiracy or not.

I wonder why it would make any difference. Is it that because you don’t like the idea that a government agency is learning of your input. If they were not learning here they would be learning from somewhere else, they would be doing it anyway. If you were not having it here on ats you would be having it somewhere else and they would be there to. Better the devil you know.


Originally posted by Shawnna
Seems to me that this will ultimately have an impact on the quality of the discussions at some point.


I don’t think you could ever knock this site down, like a good thread it will always come back.

And by the way even if this were run by a government agency it would be a British one. Something this wicked could only come out of England. Americano's.


Honestly, it is the nature of this site.......


Originally posted by kode
It’s only bloody natural for a healthily paranoid individual to question who he or she is really dealing with. Is it not?



posted on Jun, 15 2006 @ 07:04 PM
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I thought I was quoting and I was editing, talk about bad timing and placement.


Shawnna, if you happen to have the original text I'll put it back. Sorry about that.

Springer...

[edit on 6-15-2006 by Springer]



posted on Jun, 15 2006 @ 07:04 PM
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Originally posted by Shawnna
Seems to me that this will ultimately have an impact on the quality of the discussions at some point.



I don’t think you could ever knock this site down, like a good thread it will always come back.


My point was Google search results should never, ever, have an influence on what is, and is not, discussed here IF denying ignorance is the primary objective.

When you are more concerned with how your site looks when information is searched through Google, or any other search engine, you've become nothing more than a commercial site more focused on your search engine position than on "denying ignorance".


It’s only bloody natural for a healthily paranoid individual to question who he or she is really dealing with. Is it not?


Yes - it is only bloody natural, and it is also very smart to know the integrity of whoever you interface with - especially when you may be discussing sensitive, politically and/or emotionally charged topics.



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