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The Catholic Conspiracy

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posted on Jun, 15 2006 @ 01:22 AM
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Theres alot of people looking into this stuff right now so heres my tidbits.
I was raised as a catholic, but had a protestant father and atheist relatives. I know religious fanatics on all sides, and unreligious fanatics on all sides. This past has led me to be what i call spiritual, not necessarily religious.

There is a lot the vatican hides and there is evidence supporting the ever popular da vinci code.
The gospel according to judas is probably legitimate.
And what we know is 75% bull#

You must realize that no matter what denomination you're under you are essentially part of the catholic church. The catholic church did in sense rule the world for several hundred years.

The protestant bible is simply an outdated catholic bible thats missing a few books
Moses parted the reed sea ot the red sea, and the reed sea parting can be scientifically explained. Seizures were originally thought to be possessions. And so forth what im geting at is that science gradually replaces religion.

I lore there is only supposed to be 2 popes after John Paul II
So since we now have Benedict the XVI we're down to 1
and benedict is old.

Satan is second only to God. And it is my belief that the universe was created as a constant, but satan changed it to a variable. Neither is smarter than the other. Hell can win, or else it wouldnt be a constant struggle.

Slowly the church is turning to a more 'liberal' view but still is very archaic.
Jesus had a brother: "james"

Well all this is all probably old news so ill stop

but ive probably got quite a bit more background than most

so im just throwin myself out there




posted on Jun, 18 2006 @ 12:08 PM
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Wademus Prime;

What evidence supporting the DaVinci Code - which, btw, was Dan Brown's fevered little anti-Catholic tract? The Last Supper? Painted a millenia and a half after the supper took place. All the little clues and tidbits in the book? Most of them don't even exist! There has been dozens of articles about tourists swarming 'DaVinci Code' sites and demanding to know where a particular knick-knack is. They usually are quite cross when they are told that there is no knick-knack. But, maybe the Catholic Church has successfully absconded with them...


The Gospels of Judas and other of the heretical gospels are substantially dated to have a provenance centuries after the life of Christ. Higher Criticism has dated the synoptic gospels to well within the 1st century AD. There is a large body of scholarly work to support my thesis. What do you have to support yours? And how is 75% of what we know excrement? Or is that just a offensive little aside?

Who says there will be only two Popes after John Paul II? Sources, please.

If the CAtholic Church 'ruled the world for several hundred years' it probably would STILL rule it! The period of time you are likely referring to are the eras historians commonly call the Early Middle and the High Middle ages - a period of time collectively spanning from 500 AD to 1500 AD. While Popes such as Gregory the Great had a tremendous effect on creating the office of the Pope as a temporal ruler, and the concept of Christendom - a united body of Christian nations - was a popular one, Popes and kings struggled throughout this period. Charlemagne and Leo were close allies but even their relationship was marred by the Pope presuming to crown Charlemagne as Holy Roman Emperor. This set into motion a conflict between Crown and Cross that would last centuries. Lay investiture, the conflict between Henry IV and Gregory VII being the pinnacle of this clash, was a major divisive issue. Henry VIII of England broke away from the church not over divorces but over land and power. And then there is the 'Babylonian Captivity'...the list is endless. While the church had - and still has - significant influence, it hardly ruled the world.

Satan is second only to God. If there was anything that you said that is disturbing, this is it. Unless you are Zoastrian? Satan can create nothing. It is a force of destruction. Otherwise, why would Satan need to corrupt us? Why can't he make his own minions? Neither is smarter than the other? Nonsense. Your argument is flawed in ways that I can't even begin to enumerate. Once again, you are quoting Zoraster - the cosmos is divided into Light and Dark, Ahura Mazda and Ahriman and the world is the battleground for ascendancy.

There are a number of scientists who are also devout men and women of faith. Science does not neccesarily replace faith. This is secular-humanist twaddle. Even Darwin, the poster boy of secular humanists, remarked more than once how his work was an illumination of the glory of God's handiwork.

There has been - and will be - considerable debate over brothers and sisters of Jesus. the Greek word adelphos - brothers - can be used as we use it today. I often greet people as 'brother' - I consider all men to be my brothers. I call my fellow Knights of Columbus members brothers - they are m fraternal brothers. There is a lot of speculation over the existence of step-brothers or cousins when we read the Gospels. I follow this debate with interest.

I really don't care what or who or even if an individual worships. If you are going to toss off claims as if they were statements of fact, prove it. Substantiate it. Provide a good argument or some corroborating evidence from reliable sources.



posted on Aug, 2 2006 @ 08:16 AM
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Folks here is a post I wrote several months ago on another site.
I have added several not all updates.
The veil for me of western consciousness has been lifted and my thoughts now arrive daily.
For me there is no turning back…


So here is the picture I took in the Santa Catalina Monestario in Arequipa, Peru.
This was a Convent closed for 396 years, just reopened in 1970.

This symbol I contend is the source of the Nazis adopting the Swastika as the symbol of their 'movement'.

And was Aleister Crowley aware of this Catholic symbol? Crowley claimed to have given the Swastika symbol to the Nazis, this was either true or just more of Crowley's EGO shooting from the hip.
Hitler was however a Roman Catholic who believed in the occult.

img15.imgspot.com...

And for those that thru the filters of Faith and Denial refuse to see, those who cannot see the symbol within the symbol...please view this image.

img15.imgspot.com.../u/06/136/03/SantaCatalinaCr ossandNaziSwastika1147849803.JPG

Now consider what I am about to say and this is very important. When viewing the above symbol we can visualize both a right and left handed swastika. As in many aspects of life, it depends on perspective. As I demonstrated using the 'inter-cardinal' directions, (i.e. ne, se, sw, and nw), the shaded areas become the right-handed adopted Nazi swastika, however if we view the above Catholic/Christian iconography using the cardinal directions (n,e,s and w) we can now visualize the left-handed Hindu svastika.
hmm.

So what I am implying is that Hitler saw himself as a messenger with a mission statement, the three colors used in the Swastika are also the first 3 Horsemen of the Apocalypse appearing in Revelations, Bible 'Prophecy' .
White, red, black and pale was the order of the riders.
These 4 colors with great interest are also the 4 colors used in Alchemy.
However the process by which lead turns to gold is in this colorful order.
Black (lead) > red > white > yellow (gold and perhaps the pale rider?)
Another coincidence is that these were among the first dyes used and also in Hopi prophecy it refers to the 4 races of mankind.
So the alchemy suggests that the first race was black > red > white (current) > yellow
How accurate is this summation in ‘light’, in regards to today’s geo-politics?
Will the ‘yellow’ race march west with an army of 2,000,000 as prophesized?

And when you google "SS" in 'light' of the occult Nazi / Catholic connections you realize SS also means Saint Peter and Saint Paul. Did Hitler see these two Saints as his apostles as assisting him in his tasks, the mythical St. Peter, the first Pope, some claim?
The Schutzstaffel ("defense squadron"), or SS, was also a large paramilitary organization that was a principal component of the Nazi party.
And were these activities with or without the consent of the Vatican?
Does the Vatican have a cross to bear in regards to Jews?
hmm
The Buddhist swastika, the omote manji can be formed simply by using two S, crossed to form a swirling symbol.

Now to put us back on track, remember the Swastika is one of the symbols along with the Star of David that can spin, spiral or rotate in either direction, indicative of perhaps a right-hand or left-hand path both being Buddhist and Hindu concepts or simply the movements can be viewed as clockwise or counter-clockwise.


Andre Brissard, the most reliable of the French writers on the Nazis and the occult says that the left-handed swastika turns in the direction of the earth’s rotation: hence it symbolizes the solar wheel, the benefic fire of heaven, expansion, creation, evolution and fertility and is the ‘Wheel of the Golden Sun’.
The right-handed swastika is the ‘Wheel of the Black Sun’ representing the earthly fire recreated by man and the quest for political hegemony in opposition to the Fire of Heaven.


And it is no coincidence that the Star of David not unlike the Phoenix, was reborn in the ashes of the Swastika. It certainly marked an event ... domination by the FIRE Cults.
Witness the post war boom and the terrestrial resources consumed by the Fire Cult, resource depletion is a sure sign the Fire Cults have passed through.

But we must remember the Star of David is a symbol along with the Crucifix that represents the FIRE Cults, those that embraced and nurtured the gift of Fire, the seed of all technology.

The Star of David represents only 2 of the 4 elements, water and fire. It is comprised of two inter-laced triangles, and each triangle represents an element. In this case it would be masculine fire pointing upwards and feminine water pointing downwards. It is comprised of the north to south axis, the 'thermodynamic axis of interaction'. The same axis as the 7 chakras, the same axis where the condor or eagle encounters the snake or the serpent. This is the axis where we encounter and defeat our individual microcosmic demons.

The Cross or specifically the Crucifix could be said to represent all four elements with an obvious distortion, the crucifix is 'longer' in the south...herein lies its source of power, it's influence. It is essentially not as balanced as an equal-armed cross is and the four forces are also not contained within a circle, the monad, the Tao.
The Swastika embodies all 4 elements, especially if viewed as a Cross within a Circle, it is now seen as a whole, everything is connected. Or we can place the angular swastika and its mirror image, (indicative of left hand vs. right hand or clockwise vs. counterclockwise) over one another and form a square or a diamond, depending on your perspective.




Just a month after a call for a European-wide ban of the swastika, scientists have found that the symbol has new applications in optical communications and could have a role in quantum cryptography.

Dr Darren Bagnall from the School of Electronics and Computer Science (ECS) at the University of Southampton has found that he can arrange tens of thousands of gold swastikas on a square millimetre to form new optical metamaterials that act to artificially change the polarisation of light, effectively “twisting” light in accordance with the rotation of the swastikas. By changing the degree of twist in a predictable way the chiral metamaterials can provide an alternative way to code information that is being transmitted using light.

According to Dr Bagnall, it is the special arrangement and squareness of the swastika which makes it the ideal geometry for their experiments. He comments: "The swastika has a number of special features, it is entirely made up of vertical and horizontal straight lines and it is square but can still provide the feeling of left-handed or right-handed rotation known as chirality. It is this chirality which causes our swastikas to twist light."

Dr Bagnall and his team are continuing to experiment with a wide range of other chiral geometries such as, spirals, triskella and some fractals and are very excited about the potential for use of these chiral metamaterials in technology.

Dr Bagnall comments: ‘While we are still at an early stage in our experiments, we can already anticipate applications in optoelectronics, laser physics and optical communications. This is especially true, as technologists are increasingly using polarisation state as a means of carrying information in applications such as quantum cryptography.’
www.innovations-report.de...


And the Swastika, I will continue to show was the adopted symbol of the SOLAR, WATER and FERTILTIY Cults who have been displaced thru time by the FIRE cults who consume and devour primarily natural terrestrial resources, our elemental Mother Earth and as the saying goes "like there is no tomorrow".

Simple.

It is now easy to understand why THEY connected the symbol, the swastika, to the heinous crime, the Holocaust. It was claimed 6 million perished. (Jews specifically, numbers on the others are neither readily available nor conclusive)
So may I profoundly ask why do we not associate the Crucifix with the 90 million that perished in the Americas alone, in the 150 years that followed the arrival of the Europeans? And why do we not make big blockbuster movies about these events showing the butchery?
Shall I mention the various Inquisitions or the Crusades?
All of these messengers, the Conquistadors, the Jesuits, all of the rabid Bible thumpers, the diplomats of the Church having a 'cross' to bear.
So why have they tried to etch into our consciousness a negative association with the Swastika, a profound pre-historic symbol? Why is it associated with a Holocaust that some people claim should have its HIStory revised?
And when people want to discuss it in an open forum ... they are whisked away.
All of history is open to revision, except the Holocaust.

Why do they marginalize in the western world only a symbol that has the potential to link humanities ancestry?

WHY?

The answer lies in the question, in plain view; it was obscured by a manufactured consent taking place over the past 3500 years, THEY have had plenty of time to organize.
That is what humans tend to do.
Isn’t it?

It is the symbol and its profound meaning that they fear and it's ability to link mankind perhaps to a common ancestry. It is an ancestry of common thought and choice of lifestyle. However it is non-Judeao/Christian/Islamic.
But I do believe it has more to do with the symbol representing a certain way of thinking and living. And I mean it is a lifestyle born from those that saw it as a Solar Cross, adopted primarily by cultures that lived by the 'cyclical' movements of the cosmos.
This is what the 'swastika' basically implies ...cyclical, spiralling movement, capable of two directions.

Next step for me is linking this Catholic symbol to the Chakana, the Andean / Inca Cruz or Cross linked to the Shamanistic Medicine Wheel.
Update: I have made some interesting esoteric connections.

Would it be asking too much of FAITH to suggest the Catholic Church stole symbols after stealing the history of a culture, after building their churches atop of their conquered foe's sacred sites?

And here comes the rant

Have we been duped big time?
Who really resides in the Vatican? What omnipotent force has taken up residence there?
Does the hypocrisy of the extreme wealth of the Church make sense if we allow our imaginations to accept that the metaphorical 'Satan' was tossed from heaven so looong ago, so how would he organize and present himself after thousands of years, how would he attempt to fool us into following him?
Would he deceive us by pretending to be our friend providing comforts and security or by erecting and manufacturing enemies to be feared and thus protected from or both?
Desire and Fear.

And one more fact that keeps us collectively off the 'straight and narrow and off balance, non-centered and this is perhaps why we keep falling off that path either to the left or to the right....
The Church in its history has supported the military.
Today the Vatican supports the US War machine with money...ironically with energy stolen through the centuries from those they have oppressed.
So what has happened to separation of Church and State?

The Power and the Glory, the Left and Right have thus merged...but I would not call it reconciliation.
Would you?

And my contention that there is a conspiracy to follow scripture as a script gains profound insight when one realizes Hitler, not unlike Saddam, , Milosovic, Noriega, Marcos, the Shah of Iran and other Puppets have only been given enough rope with which to hang themselves.
Why do the FIRE Cults NOT embrace SOLAR and other alternative technologies? It becomes obvious.
Would we become more 'independent' of the matrix, a word that also has its root in 'mater', along with matter and mother? Those are the resources that come from within the abomination, Gaia our elemental Mom.
(if you are not on the Grid, you are not being 'metered')

So collectively we are not utilizing the SUN of God enough...SOLAR, Water and Fertilty which are tied to the cycles of the Cosmos. We have failed to find that magical balance between terrestrial and non-terrestrial resources.
I also use precession to support my contentions here, the movement of the earth’s axis relative to the macrocosmic and microcosmic northern constellations, the Big and Little Dipper, our galactic clock.

The prophecized pride of Man playing with the shunned gift of FIRE, our egos developing profitable, yet wasteful energies has been our downfall...and we have fallen, the momentum is undeniable.
Only the 'energetic' intervention of something huge, and I would suggest the triangular relationship of the Cosmic rays of the Father Sun and the Gravitational effects of the Moonchild will effect our Mother Earth with catastrophic results.


On 2005-11-20 11:59, Joemac wrote on another thread:
Mid-Atlantic Ridge. I forgot to mention the Mid-Atlantic Ridge is becoming a very significant player in global warming; from Iceland to Antarctica. This is because this area of the Earth’s thin crust is being stretched. Every other place on the Earth is being compressed, except for Africa and that part of the Indian and South Pacific Ocean which seperates Antarctica and Australia.

This sounds very much like the Greek myth of Chaos creating Gaea who in turn, through an immaculate conception gave birth to Uranus, born from her side.
Is the Earth’s heartbeat, the quickening of the frequency an indication that the Mother Earth is in labor?
Is this where the 'newborn son' vows to kill the Father and does the patriarchal domination thus end?
The balance known as the Trinity has been upset, The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. (the feminine aspect was hidden as the Holy Spirit)

Why is this happening?
Read my signature below, we did not heed the 1st and 2nd Laws of Thermodynamics.

And the 3rd Law possibly describes the punishment we are to receive.
And it has happened before; part of a growing, evolutionary cycle that the Mother Earth also passes through.


This perfection upon the earth is relative to the universal soul of the earth (i.e. as the macrocosm or greater world, so the microcosm or lesser world, which is man).
-The Kabbalah Unveiled


Back to Pythagoras, Socrates and Plato ... as it is in the macrocosm so it is in the microcosm. These guys sat around and actually had time to think, deeply, do we?
Look around you at the distractions, the graven images we have erected that stop us from achieving the discipline of merging our thinking with our feelings.
All of the low-brow infotainment that conspires to feed our lower natures.

We have become the 'human doings' kept very busy attending to detail; distractions erected by the Fire Cult Leaders (Bush is one), and by definition thus we are too busy attending to the detail, falsely lead by the microcosmic ego attending to self, we are too far removed from the big / macrocosmic picture to be the 'human beings' we are capable of being.

There is a very good reason the Swastika was forever 'linked' to a heinous crime. The truth will be revealed by science in TIME.
It is the key to a much deeper understanding of our roots.

The symbolism of the swastika can actually accommodate and be applied to an expanding and contracting universe. And most of hermetic philosophy was indeed focused on expansion and contraction.
Waveforms.

Can anyone give an explanation of the specific symbolic significance of that Catholic Cross I found in the convent? What was it said to represent?
I should have hired a guide.

Update!

Here is perhaps the source of that Catholic iconography which brings us back to Buddhism, and I suspect a guide would NOT have known this anyway.
Compare the structure of the Santa Catalina Cross with this Buddhist mandala.

www.sacred-texts.com...

I then compare this structure to Plato's description of Atlantis, which also resembles in basic structure and dimension the shiva linga.
One of the oldest fertility symbols.
And that means we are getting very close to how it all began.
We have only heard to this point HIStory, it is time for HERStory.

i.e. HIStory + HERStory = a historical TRUTH
Si?

Namaste

Raphael

p.s. the spinning, twisting and spiraling rotation and chirality manifest themselves into very popular toys like the Frisbee, the hula-hoop and twister.
There are no coincidences, I only experience intersection and convergence now as we are only recognizing, taping into the connections and patterns representing the consciousness of an architect.

The architecture indeed of an energetic god.
WOW!
Energy = God

Share him WAS the message.


[edit on 2-8-2006 by Kachina]


Cug

posted on Aug, 2 2006 @ 08:46 AM
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Originally posted by Kachina

And was Aleister Crowley aware of this Catholic symbol? Crowley claimed to have given the Swastika symbol to the Nazis, this was either true or just more of Crowley's EGO shooting from the hip.


He never claimed any such thing.

I still find it amazing how people love to just throw Crowley's name into any subject just to make things more "evil."

The St Louis Cardinals suck*... and it's well known that Crowley gave them the Cardinal symbol.
















*Can you tell I'm a Cubs fan?


[edit on 8/2/2006 by Cug]



posted on Aug, 2 2006 @ 10:47 PM
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Originally posted by Cug

Originally posted by Kachina

And was Aleister Crowley aware of this Catholic symbol? Crowley claimed to have given the Swastika symbol to the Nazis, this was either true or just more of Crowley's EGO shooting from the hip.


He never claimed any such thing.

I still find it amazing how people love to just throw Crowley's name into any subject just to make things more "evil."


Just so you realize I do have references I can quote...


The Swastika: As a Mystical Symbol
Hindu uses. Sacred Fire. Ganesha. Every holy spot is marked with a Swastika. Sacred Heart of Buddha. Buddha's footprints marked with Swastikas. The Jains, who believe in non-violence, make the sign of the Swastika as often as Catholics make the sign of the cross. In Bali, Shiva's lingam (penis) is a Swastika. Christian symbol from the catacombs. Gnostic graffiti includes Swastikas and Stars of David side by side. Occult Swastikas include Theosophists, Rosicrucians, Masons, Golden Dawn, Transcendental Meditation, Pythagorus, Madame Blavatsky, Krishnamurti, Rudolf Steiner, William Butler Yeats. Aliester Crowley claimed Hitler stole the Swastika from him.
web.singnet.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow"> web.singnet.com...


Now you seem very knowledgeable about Mr. Crowley Cug but do you know 'everything' about the man, everything he may have said in his lifetime?
I think not.

Besides, I think I could very well exclude his name from the post. It is not essential to the post.
Others may have been fascinated by Crowley's apparent mysticism...
I do not impress so easily.
The man's ego was huge.
And these kind of people I find very small.

I was not trying to make anything appear evil, that already isn't.

namaste

Raphael



posted on Aug, 3 2006 @ 03:52 AM
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people, what the hell are you arguing about?
you are arguing sides of storys nobody really knows is true.
there is only 1 thing you can know for sure, and that is that you know NOTHING, there is something wrong with the world, we all agree on that, who or what makes this happen is a shot in the dark at a needle in a haystack.
in the end everything said by anyone CAN be true, i do not say all is true, i frankly don't believe half of it myself, but still it can be, nobody can really give you proof who is satan, or where is god, or if there even is one of those things, maybe satan just represents all evil in man, and god all good, maybe they are lifeforms of some sort, or energy, or aliens, or machines, or figments of your imagination, or somethign that has been tought up to keep people in line, who cares, nobody knows!
the only think we need to know is that it gives people hope in these terrible times, something to look foreword to.
We cannot afford to jap at eachother for something as meaningless as who can be satan or the anti christ or something, if you know, and only YOU know, what then? what do you suppose to do? kill him, YOU CAN'T,. warn others, THEY WON'T BELIEVE YOU, just prepare, so when the time comes we can all unite and do something about it, and maybe we will get some help from jezus (whatever he may be, that is not the point here!)



posted on Aug, 3 2006 @ 07:48 AM
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Originally posted by Kachina


Just so you realize I do have references I can quote...

The Swastika: As a Mystical Symbol
Hindu uses. Sacred Fire. Ganesha. Every holy spot is marked with a Swastika. Sacred Heart of Buddha. Buddha's footprints marked with Swastikas. The Jains, who believe in non-violence, make the sign of the Swastika as often as Catholics make the sign of the cross. In Bali, Shiva's lingam (penis) is a Swastika. Christian symbol from the catacombs. Gnostic graffiti includes Swastikas and Stars of David side by side. Occult Swastikas include Theosophists, Rosicrucians, Masons, Golden Dawn, Transcendental Meditation, Pythagorus, Madame Blavatsky, Krishnamurti, Rudolf Steiner, William Butler Yeats. Aliester Crowley claimed Hitler stole the Swastika from him.
web.singnet.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow"> web.singnet.com...



You may have a reference, but it references false information. Aleister Crowley never claimed that the Nazis "stole the swastika from him". Crowley did not use the swastika very much, and it is not a very important symbol in Thelema.

Crowley did, however, during World War II, have himself photographed standing in the Sign of Apophis and Typhon, and tried to circulate it widely. This was supposed to have been a type of magical attack on the Nazis, as the Sign of Apophis represents that which can overpower the solar forces indicated by the swastika.

[edit on 3-8-2006 by Masonic Light]



posted on Aug, 3 2006 @ 01:37 PM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light

You may have a reference, but it references false information. Aleister Crowley never claimed that the Nazis "stole the swastika from him". Crowley did not use the swastika very much, and it is not a very important symbol in Thelema.

Crowley did, however, during World War II, have himself photographed standing in the Sign of Apophis and Typhon, and tried to circulate it widely. This was supposed to have been a type of magical attack on the Nazis, as the Sign of Apophis represents that which can overpower the solar forces indicated by the swastika.

[edit on 3-8-2006 by Masonic Light]


Wonderful I have people hear willing to discuss my above post.
Good, however neither of you made it past my reference about Crowley evidently.
Should I assume you accept he rest of the information presented, is the other info I presented accurate?

Bring it on gentlemen.
Let us discuss my other assertions.
Crowley is the evidence presented that we can neither confirm or deny...it was hearsay or shall I say heresy?
Did you see the photo that I took in that Catholic monestary?

Are the two Crowley experts that have come forward...ready to discuss my other enlightening assertions?

Masonic light...are you a Mason...or a wannabe Mason?
Have you studied the Tarot?
Specifically the Rider-Waite deck that supposedly is rife with masonic symbolism.
I have some questions for you if you are a Mason in regards to symbolism.
Let us put Crowley behind us, he was a small man projecting big shadows.

Do yo have a Thoth Deck?

namaste

Raphael



posted on Aug, 3 2006 @ 02:46 PM
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Originally posted by Kachina

Wonderful I have people hear willing to discuss my above post.
Good, however neither of you made it past my reference about Crowley evidently.
Should I assume you accept he rest of the information presented, is the other info I presented accurate?


I would say that some is reasonable accurate, while some is speculation.



Crowley is the evidence presented that we can neither confirm or deny...it was hearsay or shall I say heresy?


I don't think confirmation or denial would be that difficult. If Crowley had written such a thing, it would be simple for those who made that claim to point out the book and page number.



Masonic light...are you a Mason...or a wannabe Mason?


I am a Mason, and yes, I also want to be.


Have you studied the Tarot?


Yes, I am also a long time member of Builders of the Adytum, which is based around the formal study of Tarot.


Specifically the Rider-Waite deck that supposedly is rife with masonic symbolism.
I have some questions for you if you are a Mason in regards to symbolism.


The Rider-Waite is not my favorite version, but yes, I have studied it.


Let us put Crowley behind us, he was a small man projecting big shadows.


I'm not sure we can brush Crowley aside so easily in the discussion of occultism. It was he, after all, who popularized the movement, making it in large part what it is today.


Do yo have a Thoth Deck?


Yes, but like the Rider-Waite, it's not my version of choice.


Cug

posted on Aug, 3 2006 @ 03:48 PM
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Originally posted by Kachina
Now you seem very knowledgeable about Mr. Crowley Cug but do you know 'everything' about the man, everything he may have said in his lifetime?
I think not.


No of course not.. It's called proving a negative, something that is not possible to do. In this case the burden of proof rests at your feet.



Besides, I think I could very well exclude his name from the post. It is not essential to the post.


Exactly! That's what I'm getting at. This little bit of fluff tacked to your post added nothing to it other than "Look Crowley is involved it must be Eviiiiiilllllllll" and in fact detracts quite a bit from the rest of your post. If I know that one statement is false..

Come to think of it you said Crowley gave the Swastika to Hitler, Yet your source said Hitler stole it from Crowley. I don't know about you but I was always taught that gave was pretty much the total opposite of stole.

Now what do you want me to do? You posted something I know not to be true, and when you posted your source it turns out that you twisted the meaning of your own "proof." Now how can I not think the rest of your post doesn't suffer from the same flaws? I'm I just to blindly trust you?



posted on Aug, 3 2006 @ 05:24 PM
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Originally posted by Cug
Come to think of it you said Crowley gave the Swastika to Hitler, Yet your source said Hitler stole it from Crowley. I don't know about you but I was always taught that gave was pretty much the total opposite of stole.

Now what do you want me to do? You posted something I know not to be true, and when you posted your source it turns out that you twisted the meaning of your own "proof." Now how can I not think the rest of your post doesn't suffer from the same flaws? I'm I just to blindly trust you?


Words just seem to get in the way, don't they Cug?
Here is exactly what I said...



And was Aleister Crowley aware of this Catholic symbol? Crowley claimed to have given the Swastika symbol to the Nazis, this was either true or just more of Crowley's EGO shooting from the hip.
Hitler was however a Roman Catholic who believed in the occult.


First of all what I said was if it were true, some doubt there on my part do you not agree?
I think the important points I was trying to make here are:

Hitler was however a Roman Catholic who believed in the occult.

Now let's go to that picture that I took in the Santa Cantalina Monestary that was closed for 396 years and reopened in 1970...it was like stepping back in time...in a sense.

Would you be curious as to the 2 other pictures I took of the other symbols that were in the same room as this Catholic mandala.
Allow me to refer to this mandala as the Santa Cantalina Cross.
Maybe Masonic Light can share what he knows about the shaded areas of this cross depicted by the inter-cardinal directions?
The Maltese Cross essentially means the same.
Would you like me to explain how these shaded areas actually spell the name of the Jewish G_d, the one who declared the Semites chosen?
Yes the Nazis actually employed as a symbol of oppression the name of YHWH.

I found the answer Masonic Light on Card X of the Rider-Waite deck.

Which deck do you use Masonic Light?
By the way, if the Golden Dawn employ the same esoterics as the Kabbalah, I have news for you...I can show how the initiates are being grossly mislead by the 'blinding' techniques these secret societies employ...
More sheeple led astray..

Here is an example...Judaism has the Star of David / hexagram as its national flag...and it uses the colors White and Biblical Blue, sometimes a shade of Royal Purple. Long before the Jews adopted the hexagram, it was used extensively in India along with its esoteric cousin the swastika.
This hexagram has also been called Solomon's Seal and as we know the swastika goes by many, many names.
We are also told that these two triangles represent water in the north, a feminine element colored blue and pointing downwards. This is interlaced with the male triangle pointing upwards represented by the element fire which is coded red and is in the south.
So why do the Kabbalists (the mystical jews) place water in the west and earth in the north?

Cug do you want to keep putting up roadblocks to enlightenment with 'he said, she said' distractions?
Let us move on, point by point if you like, and we can eliminate each assertion, like we did with Crowley.
We can come back to Crowley...later, I know very little about the man except that he liked attention.
I am only after a truth.

Namaste

Raphael

p.s Are you familiar with Solomon's Knot...you can draw it first by drawing a square (masonic). The first building block has been provided not unlike the Fibonacci numbers which swirl from the centre outward and then to complete this 'Escher' type of illusion you draw a swastika which helps in the completion of the optical illusion.

Why do the Jews / Zionists really fear the Swastika?
It has nothing to do with the Holocaust you must realize.
It is no coincidence that as the swastika was put to death...the Star of David rose from its ashes...

[edit on 3-8-2006 by Kachina]


Cug

posted on Aug, 3 2006 @ 06:04 PM
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Originally posted by Kachina

We can come back to Crowley...later, I know very little about the man except that he liked attention.
I am only after a truth.


Likewise. I have a simple question for you. If you know very little about Crowley, why did you mention him? Really, in a rather confrontational way Ill admit, I'm trying to help you. Cut the cruft out and only present the things you have researched and you won't have to worry about us nitpickers. Think about it, if Albert Einstein started his paper on relativity with 1+1=3 nobody would of even bothered with him by the time he got to E=MC^2.

Do you understand what I'm saying?




Which deck do you use Masonic Light?
By the way, if the Golden Dawn employ the same esoterics as the Kabbalah, I have news for you...


Not speaking for him but I'll bet that Masonic Light's favorite deck is the B.O.T.A. deck. But I could be wrong.

And no the Qabalah used by the Golden dawn is quite different from the traditional Jewish Kabbalah. The symbols are still mostly the same but the meanings of them have changed overtime to match the Hermetic viewpoint.

If you give me some time I'd like to make some more comments about the rest of the post.. but It's dinner time.


[edit on 8/3/2006 by Cug]



posted on Aug, 3 2006 @ 08:29 PM
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Although Hitler was in certain ways tied to the Jesuits, he eventually turned on them after coming under the influence of black magicians in Tibet (Bhutan). The meaning of the "En Volt" with the hand extended outward and the reversed corrupted usage of the swastika (as it is a holy symbol when used correctly) are but small signs that things are not always as they first appear.

As for a Catholic Conspiracy? The Catholic Church is involved in conspiracies (past and present) but then so too are non-Catholics. The real "Unseen Hand" are not even the recent Herzl political zionists or Catholics, but rather a much more cunning group of Esau-zionsits that have tried to claim themselves as the true owners of the 12 tribes of Israel. The Committee of 300 is made up of these Esau/Ieadeans who like to call themselves "Ieadeans" and know that they are Esau, while claiming to be from the Jacob stream. They are mostly coming from Esau (The fig tree which bore no fruit).



posted on Aug, 3 2006 @ 11:01 PM
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Ok, Ok my apologies about Crowley, is he some kind of demi-god on this website, a master occultist?

Please acknowledge however those that seek the slimelight and wanting their 15 minutes of fame and perhaps even more have fallen prey to the number one sin, known metaphorically as pride and its shadow, ego.
So my shot at Crowley was specifically targeted at what I view as a weakness of character. My intuition is full on. Can we move on please. I do apologize for the distraction. Tough crowd, working this room, this forum.
I have only presented the tip of the iceberg. (I wish I could explain these vibrations)
Bill Gates, Crowley, politicians, rock stars and movie stars, etc. etc. I simply am not impressed.
(feeling what I feel in my heart)

Nobody seems able to get past Crowley.
Are you checking up on the information as presented? I have been through a trial by fire as these ideas have already been presented on over 1000 posts on various websites in the last two years.

Much of what I present as fodder for discussion is the result of comparing pre-historic symbols, specifically the swastika and other symbolism, myth, religion, science, iconography etc.
Yes please research the info I have presented to you, it will prepare you for what I have to share. Please stop attacking the messenger and challenge the validity of the message.
I will always provide links if requested and not provided.

Again in reference to the Star of David we told that these two triangles represent water in the north, a feminine element colored blue and pointing downwards. This is interlaced with the male triangle pointing upwards represented by the element fire, which is coded red and is in the south.
So why do the Kabbalists (mystical Judaism) place water in the west and earth in the north?

The clue to this riddle is in the name of YHVH / YHWH.

Also Cug I am glad you mentioned the Hermetic viewpoint. Correct me if I am wrong but do not the concepts of expansion and contraction and the square and circle and the numbers 4 and 5 figure prominently in its philosophy?
Please lets go there…hermetic philosophy…here comes the deluge or was it Fludd?

I am also very glad you brought Einstein into the discussion.
This man and his ‘Relativity’ are central to my cosmogony, a philosophy that some friends have called my thesis. I like that, I am indeed working on becoming a master. On other sites I been called a crack addict, actually it has been inferred often that I am a ‘druggie’, I have also been called a mystic but my favorite is certainly when I was referred to as the Prophet of Gaia, a modern Robin Hood perhaps. (my childhood hero)
I also talk about Quantum and Thermodynamics and I try to weave modern science in with everything I mentioned earlier, i.e. symbols, myth, religion etc.


Einstein did once comment "God does not play dice [with the universe]." This quotation is commonly mentioned to show that Einstein believed in the Christian God. Used this way, it is out of context; it refers to Einstein's refusal to accept the uncertainties indicated by quantum theory.


I believe that Einstein may be proven correct again one day but for now we still see quantum as chaos. But what is evident is that the nuns in that Monastery were very interested in dice.
Another photo I took in that Peruvian Monastery was in a domed meditation room and on the ceiling obviously presented as the ‘heaven or sky’ are three dice, loaded evidently because the opposite ends do NOT add up to seven. Interestingly the total of the three dice (three faces showing on each) are 14 (3, 5, 6) + 12 (3,4,5) + 9 (1,2,6) = 35 = 3 + 5 = 8 = infinity.
And painted on that domed roof of the universe were a multitude of 6 pointed blue stars and one star also had a gold center.
(Kachina is the Hopi blue star, specifically Saquasohuh, he is similar to a messiah)

There is a theory out there that we may indeed be part of binary star system. And if the orbit of this dark star intersects with the orbit of our sun’s orbit, the light we will receive will be blue-shifting because the lightwaves traveling between the sun’s will be compressed.
Go here…
www.binaryresearchinstitute.org...

There was also a frayed rope with 5 strands and coincidentally modern string theory known as M-theory is a web of relationships that present themselves as dualities connecting all 5 current models.
However I do not believe in coincidences.
There was also jar or urn and 10 small spheres with crosses inside were bubbling out.
Please do understand that I interpret things differently than most people here. The weakness I have discovered holding people back from making the intuitive leaps is we get lost in the detail of the microcosmic picture. And that my friend is the individual and his ambassador is ego. Even worse we defend it. Take a step back, is that not necessary to take in the big macrocosmic picture.

Now I had read that Einstein believed the mythical theory that would be a bridge between quantum and relativity would be a simple one, thus I realized that I also, if I wanted to bridge science and religion, I would need to arrive at my conclusions simply, not unlike myths, fairy tales and folklore.
But I also believed that if there was a ‘creator’, all could equally access him, not just the left-brained thinking scientists, but every man, woman and child.
I soon came to realize that is exactly what is holding us back now from making the necessary discoveries, balanced thought, seeing the big picture meshed with the small…”as it is in the macrocosm so it is in the microcosm”.
Scientists peering through their scopes are sometimes just too focused to see beyond their chosen field of vision.
It was time for a bridge.
This one however has no trolls and allows safe or is it sage passage?


Einstein has also said: It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.


Einstein, Gandhi, Mandela, ML King… now these are the men, these are the great spirits that Crowley would never have been able to envoke, in this lifetime, nudge, nudge, wink, wink.
Time to visit the Dreamtime.

Namaste

Raphael

p.s.

Think about it, if Albert Einstein started his paper on relativity with 1+1=3 nobody would of even bothered with him by the time he got to E=MC^2.


Maybe you should think about it, in an Einstein ‘Relative’ world 1 + 1 does indeed = 3
Mother, Father and Child = Trinity
Pregnancy does indeed indicate and confirm that time bends or curves space.


[edit on 3-8-2006 by Kachina]



posted on Aug, 4 2006 @ 08:52 AM
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Originally posted by Kachina


Which deck do you use Masonic Light?


I use the B.O.T.A. deck designed by Case.


By the way, if the Golden Dawn employ the same esoterics as the Kabbalah, I have news for you...I can show how the initiates are being grossly mislead by the 'blinding' techniques these secret societies employ...
More sheeple led astray..


I'm not particularly impressed by such rhetoric. The Golden Dawn attributions are correct, inasmuch as they work, which is what's important. The so-called "blinding techniques" were used by A.E. Waite, which is why the attributions in the Rider-Waite deck are not completely accurate. This was done because he believed that to publish the entirely correct attributions would be to violate his oath of secrecy to the Golden Dawn.

However, the correct G.'.D.'. attributions were published by Regardie, Crowley, Fortune, and others, and haven't been a secret in a very long time.



posted on Aug, 5 2006 @ 01:25 PM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light


I'm not particularly impressed by such rhetoric.


Masonic Light I see you employ a Blue Star in your Avatar...you may find this thread interesting...

Apocalypse and The Blue Star

www.abovetopsecret.com...'

You tell me if you think it is just more rhetoric...
The truth is out there and accessible.

namaste

Raphael



[edit on 5-8-2006 by Kachina]


Cug

posted on Aug, 8 2006 @ 10:16 PM
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Sorry for the delay, I got a bit lazy



Originally posted by Kachina

Would you like me to explain how these shaded areas actually spell the name of the Jewish G_d, the one who declared the Semites chosen?
Yes the Nazis actually employed as a symbol of oppression the name of YHWH.

I found the answer Masonic Light on Card X of the Rider-Waite deck.
...
I can show how the initiates are being grossly mislead by the 'blinding' techniques these secret societies employ...


It's interesting you speak of blinds. You do know that the Rider-Waite deck is nothing but a blind? A.E. Waite could not reveal the true tarot, so he filled his decks with blinds, and some hidden clues to the real meanings. You will notice that the Rider-Waite deck (and it's copies) is the only deck that has yud heh vav heh in a circle in the Wheel of Fortune card. Your theory is based on a blind.




We are also told that these two triangles represent water in the north, a feminine element colored blue and pointing downwards. This is interlaced with the male triangle pointing upwards represented by the element fire which is coded red and is in the south.
So why do the Kabbalists (the mystical jews) place water in the west and earth in the north?


This is an easy one. The triangles are alchemical symbols and have nothing to do with Jewish Kabbalah.



posted on Aug, 9 2006 @ 08:31 AM
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Originally posted by Cug

It's interesting you speak of blinds. You do know that the Rider-Waite deck is nothing but a blind? A.E. Waite could not reveal the true tarot, so he filled his decks with blinds, and some hidden clues to the real meanings. You will notice that the Rider-Waite deck (and it's copies) is the only deck that has yud heh vav heh in a circle in the Wheel of Fortune card. Your theory is based on a blind.


So we agree, ‘blinds’ are used.
Could we also agree various ‘temple priests’, long ago could have employed these methods when writing the Torah > KJV > etc?

Waite may have been the first to actually s-p-e-l-l- out the name of YHWH but was he the only one to use the 4 tetramorphs (which can be linked to the 4 Evangelists) on this card?
But here I observe sadly again, among the adherents of those who follow Tarot or embrace other esoteric beliefs fall into the trap of NOT acknowledging the wisdom contained within.
Essentially my faith / religion / belief / tarot is more accurate and more genuine than your blah, blah, blah.

So I see and feel we are beginning to ‘red-shift’ Cug….the light waves between us are becoming elongated…so I suggest we need to ‘come together’ and cause the light to shift to blue…where we actually compress the light waves between us. (read about red-shift)
Is this not an example of science blending with a message that a savior would deliver?

And the messenger / messiah / savior apparently arrives represented by the color True Blue.
www.abovetopsecret.com...'

Now here is what I wrote in the above post, which you refer to…


Here is an example...Judaism has the Star of David / hexagram as its national flag...and it uses the colors White and Biblical Blue, sometimes a shade of Royal Purple. Long before the Jews adopted the hexagram, it was used extensively in India along with its esoteric cousin the swastika.
This hexagram has also been called Solomon's Seal and as we know the swastika goes by many, many names.
We are also told that these two triangles represent water in the north, a feminine element colored blue and pointing downwards. This is interlaced with the male triangle pointing upwards represented by the element fire which is coded red and is in the south.
So why do the Kabbalists (the mystical jews) place water in the west and earth in the north?


This is an easy one. The triangles are alchemical symbols and have nothing to do with Jewish Kabbalah.



Your response was correct and at the same time incorrect.
Yes they are symbols of alchemy, but if you are to suggest that the Kabbalists ignore and pay no attention to the basic tenants of Hermetic alchemy, I would suggest you have NOT been paying attention in your ‘I wanna be a Mason’ classes.

Now I am not an expert in tarot in the traditional sense Cug, but quite simply my very basic philosophy, which has its foundation set in the number 4, has provided me with a Rosetta Stone upon which to build my temple of beliefs.
I have been bestowed a gift, and it has allowed me to re-interpret symbols, iconography, myth and scripture, simply by applying a template of laws of physical science.
And you also must learn to follow your intuition.
That is the goal of initiation, to awaken intuition, wisdom beyond words that we can follow.

This is an important blind Cug. Why are water and earth placed in different cardinal positions?
This is part of a cultural motif or mandala that gives rise to rite and ritual.
Its position is thus paramount to any rite or ritual that is enacted upon its foundation or structure.
True?

Water and Earth, their positions can be altered is simply revealed for all to see in the name of YHWH.

Heh wake up I would say to the initiate, don’t ya see it?

Yes the Hebrew letter heh = earth or water, it is used in both cardinal positions, north and west. So it implies the elements earth and water are interchangeable but can also be seen as separate elements. (I.e. heh + heh = 2heh = heh x heh )
Similar to Waite feeling Cards 8 (Strength) and 11 (Justice) were interchangeable.

Cug you seem to see blinds only negatively. Blinds were intentional ‘roadblocks’ that helped the initiate think and feel his way through the process.
Is there any point really in just giving the initiate ALL of the information?

I say yes, the truth is always worth dispensing.
Some of it may stick, even better if it penetrates, perhaps a seed will planted in a furrow of the mind, and even better if I penetrate your heart.
So do we not have mentioned that in creation, ‘a separation of the waters, above and below the firmament’ or we have in many cultural creation myths tales of a deluge.
We also have the very eloquent and to the point Hopi prophecy, where they suggest the land becomes water and the water becomes land.

So here we are on the edge of a teetering, chaotic humanity out of step with nature.
The Polar Regions are indeed melting, and not unlike plopping ice cubes into a drink, the level will rise.

Combine water levels rising with liquefaction and you have a huge hole in the dyke / firmament.
The heh / earth and heh / water will mix.

Heh Cug…what say thee?
Want more stuff…what I call proof.
Next step … I can compare basic Greek Alchemy to the alchemy we find in the Kabbalah and what it reveals…a profound insight to how we, the West have indeed evolved from the yod / yud…or spark of the ‘Fire Cult’.
Simply by counting to 4.
Here is also an important distinction Cug, I have taken no oaths, I answer to only me, as long as I find myself ‘bound’ in matter, it is I who control my Motion through SpaceTime.

So what’s a GPS supposedly for again?
Tracking position and motion in space?
Heh.

Namaste

Raphael



posted on Aug, 19 2006 @ 06:12 AM
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Originally posted by Wademus
Theres alot of people looking into this stuff right now so heres my tidbits.
I was raised as a catholic, but had a protestant father and atheist relatives. I know religious fanatics on all sides, and unreligious fanatics on all sides. This past has led me to be what i call spiritual, not necessarily religious.

There is a lot the vatican hides and there is evidence supporting the ever popular da vinci code.
The gospel according to judas is probably legitimate.
And what we know is 75% bull#

You must realize that no matter what denomination you're under you are essentially part of the catholic church. The catholic church did in sense rule the world for several hundred years.

The protestant bible is simply an outdated catholic bible thats missing a few books
Moses parted the reed sea ot the red sea, and the reed sea parting can be scientifically explained. Seizures were originally thought to be possessions. And so forth what im geting at is that science gradually replaces religion.

I lore there is only supposed to be 2 popes after John Paul II
So since we now have Benedict the XVI we're down to 1
and benedict is old.

Satan is second only to God. And it is my belief that the universe was created as a constant, but satan changed it to a variable. Neither is smarter than the other. Hell can win, or else it wouldnt be a constant struggle.

Slowly the church is turning to a more 'liberal' view but still is very archaic.
Jesus had a brother: "james"

Well all this is all probably old news so ill stop

but ive probably got quite a bit more background than most

so im just throwin myself out there


The whole thing stems down to Jesuses Virginity. If he was as enlightened as people say he was then he couldnt be.

No the catholic church is hiding something much worse than jesus.



posted on Aug, 28 2006 @ 05:36 AM
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Ask yourself this, would the Catholic Church prefer the controversy that the DaVinci code has provided, (keeping in mind that there is no such thing as bad press)

...i.e. that Mary was the Chalice to Jesus' sperm and his lineage continued on into France?

OR

Jesus (as the son of god) never existed at all (he was mortal)?
Jesus would thus becomes a figurative metaphor that the literalists apprehended in order to seize the reigns leading to the Power and the Glory.
Apparently according to the script contained within the scriptures...the Earth is the metaphorical Satan's domain.

And who made of flesh and blood can resist the lures of the Power and the Glory?
The Pope as a supporter of the literal interpretation of the scriptures is obviously a prime candidate to fall from grace.

Figurative interpretations lead the initiate to a deeper understanding of the fundamental universal archetypes.
However by interpreting the scriptures literally…those who controlled the ‘Word’ wrote the HIStory and thus we see religions becoming divided along literal interpretations, thus through time drawing lines literally and figuratively in the sand.


HIStory has been proven is written by the winners.
To the victor go the spoils; check out the basement of the Vatican I suggest.
That is what I have learned from history and HIStory, from the apparent cycles of human behavior.

May I remind the reader that this continuous, negative, energy force, the metaphorical Satan has had thousands of years to consolidate and organize?
Is the Vatican City a great representation of a humble message or a mixed message?
In a paradoxical world things is never what they seem folks.

Think about it now, who does the Pope actually represent, think about the HIStory of the Church?
The Pope I will suggest is Satan’s messenger, he is the wolf dressed in sheep's clothing leading the flock astray.
The historical behavior of the Church in its domination of the world suggests this.

namaste

Raphael




[edit on 28-8-2006 by Kachina]



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