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Are we the good guys or the bad guys?

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posted on Jun, 13 2006 @ 12:17 PM
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With respect to the final battle of Armegeddon, are we, the USA, the good guys or are we the bad guys?




posted on Jun, 13 2006 @ 03:59 PM
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You will only know after it is finished.

I'll give you a hint: read Numbers 24:13. Nothing else, read it totally out of context, just read that one verse.



posted on Jun, 13 2006 @ 04:06 PM
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Well there are no winners in war but in my books you are the bad guys.



posted on Jun, 13 2006 @ 06:17 PM
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What, as Americans?

Where do you live?

BTW, I'm not looking to pick a fight, just curious. I know that our 'image' isn't what most believe it to be, even when they themselves are looking at it. Most probably don't even care how the US might be regarded in the eyes of the citizens of other nations.

The US has a debilitating illness I call 'obliviousness.' It can be fatal, if allowed to continue.

I hope not, but it is not in my hands.

I do understand I have no reason to take sides or assume superiority to anyone, because of where I live or even who I am. I am the same as anyone else, even if it is someone far away and forgotten who wears no clothes and still knows how to shrink heads...

We are all of one race. The human race.

Armageddon is part of the true conspiracy, which will reveal itself to be inflicted by those which is in inflicted upon. If you get my drift.

If you want to know who is your enemy, look in the mirror. Looking for a friend?

Same thing.



posted on Jun, 13 2006 @ 06:32 PM
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What, as Americans?

Where do you live?


I live in England and I'm white and legally a Christian. Yes the rest of the world look badly apon the USA (government) from what I know. It's just too bad the way you get fed lies and propoganda so much by your media that it's too difficult for the majority of your Country to see the broader spectrum (imho). I understand you are not of this majority though.

[edit on 13-6-2006 by Xeros]



posted on Jun, 13 2006 @ 06:39 PM
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No doubt!!!

You hit the nail on the head, too:

The MEDIA.

And we aren't victims of the media--we created it and we beg it to feed us BS and excitement and delusions because that is what we hunger for.

I say 'we' but I rarely watch TV myself--for something like 10 years or more. I rarely read the local paper, either.

I do value the internet because it is my source for that type of information. I think it is probably the very first means for people to enjoy true free speech.

Of course, it requires discernment of a sort most people don't have, even in other places. Human beings, by design, are easily deluded.

But I do see that things are not all true nor are they all conspiracy. It's not even like that--those things we also create.

It is too deep for my brain to express with accuracy, I know that much.



posted on Jun, 13 2006 @ 06:44 PM
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I think our leaders' intentions are all to often in need of questioning. And, yes, i also think Americans are too under-exposed to true world altering events, which is usually the result of people to wrapped up in their own self-interests, and events that ownly seemingly effect them and those whom they love.



posted on Jun, 13 2006 @ 08:00 PM
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Originally posted by queenannie38
You will only know after it is finished.

I'll give you a hint: read Numbers 24:13. Nothing else, read it totally out of context, just read that one verse.


I hope we would know which side is for God and which side is for satan before we're dead.

Also, I read Number 24:13:
www.biblegateway.com...
"13 'Even if Balak gave me his palace filled with silver and gold, I could not do anything of my own accord, good or bad, to go beyond the command of the LORD -and I must say only what the LORD says'?"

I have to admit I don't understand the point you're trying to make. Although after reading your later posts it sounds like you feel the battle is within us? Is that correct? Care to clarify?

BTW I live in Milwaukee, WI if I'm who you were asking.



posted on Jun, 13 2006 @ 11:25 PM
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Originally posted by mecheng
BTW I live in Milwaukee, WI if I'm who you were asking.

No I was asking Xeros, third post down.

I live in New Mexico-- I felt I must reciprocate



I have to admit I don't understand the point you're trying to make. Although after reading your later posts it sounds like you feel the battle is within us? Is that correct? Care to clarify?


I will do what I can, but remember only God can give you any sort of answer that you can trust. Not that you can't trust what I say, I wouldn't say it if I didn't believe it to be both reliable and helpful, but what I mean is that God will prove the truth in all things, so just remember to listen within yourself.

I will give you more scripture than explanation, but I won't be cryptic, I hope. These words aren't mine and they are 'hard sayings' for our ears to hear.

Battle within? Yes, in many ways.

Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;
(1 Peter 2:11 KJV)

For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds

(2 Corinthians 10:3-4 KJV)

You see, the idea of Armageddon being the kind of literal earthly battle that most think it will be is an idea that is our own, not God’s. As Paul says-- weapons of our warfare are not carnal.

Not of the flesh, not killing flesh, not anything like that at all.

Yet not totally within ourselves, either:

Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
(Ephesians 6:10-12 KJV)

Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.
(Zechariah 4:6 KJV)



I hope we would know which side is for God and which side is for satan before we're dead.

That would be the best thing. But you must understand something about ‘sides’—there is nothing outside of God, no or ever. Our separation is one of perception, more than anything, but satan is not a side—it is not even the name of an entity as we use it. It means adversary. And truthfully, it is our own wrong ideas about there being any sort of division with God’s creation that is our own worst enemy. Satan as a tester and temptor works under God’s directive and it is for our good that we are tested and tempted and put through the fire. The fire isn’t hell—hell is the grave, death—fire is God’s Spirit.

But by saying ‘our side’ or ‘their side’ and then thinking we are on Christ’s side is wrong. Because there is no division in Christ and God is over all things. None of us are wrong but neither are we right. We are only wrong in drawing lines of battle instead of love.

Also, I read Number 24:13:
"13 'Even if Balak gave me his palace filled with silver and gold, I could not do anything of my own accord, good or bad, to go beyond the command of the LORD -and I must say only what the LORD says'?"

The only battle is the one of us resisting God’s will. Balaam was not a prophet of Israel, remember? Balak hired him to say bad things about Israel. But he didn’t do what he was paid for. He did what God wanted him to do because even though Balaam was ‘the other side’ he was not out of God’s control. Nothing is. There is no evil which God didn’t make for a purpose—namely the benefit and salvation of mankind.

That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
(Isaiah 45:6-7 KJV)

We should not judge anyone or anything as being for or against us. We are only to discern what we ourselves are to do, at any given time. And that’s it. No clauses or exceptions. God has it all worked out, for the good of all, and when we make evaluations that make divisions and rifts, even in our mind, we are not doing what God wants but according to what we think or want or imagine or whatever.

God is no respector of persons, and could care less who says they are Christian and who lives somewhere else besides America. He knows our hearts and doesn’t look at the things we consider to be important somehow able to influence His ideas about anything. And the bottom line is that there is no one in this world, no human being of any stature of any sort, including Mother Theresa all the way to Hitler and Saddam Hussein whom God does not love just as much as He loves you. Nor does He love any more than He loves you. No matter what they did or didn’t do—He loves us ALL.

The real true battle is getting over those kinds of ideas—they are ‘carnal’ and that is what ‘sin’ is about.



posted on Jun, 14 2006 @ 03:48 PM
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Thanks for the insight Queenanne. That's a whole other way of thinking about it and makes very much sense.

The reason I started this thread was because I am thinking about the literal battle... a world war III... a battle to end all battles. And I feel that the world is heading in that direction. When I think of armageddon, I think of the army of Christ battling the army of satan. I wonder which nations, or which religions, will align themselves with which side.

I worry about the conflicts in the middle east and WWIII being a holy war between Christians and Muslims - the army of Christ vs. the army of satan. And I think that the USA, being mostly Christian, will fight againt the Muslim nations.

However I somethimes wonder, based on some of the attrocities the USA is involved in, if we aren't really the 'bad guys'. These days, I think it's hard to tell who is 'good' and who is 'bad'.

But what you've pointed makes sense. It probably won't be a nation against nation scenario but instead 'sides' will be determined at a personal level.



posted on Jun, 14 2006 @ 04:01 PM
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Originally posted by queenannie38
But by saying ‘our side’ or ‘their side’ and then thinking we are on Christ’s side is wrong. Because there is no division in Christ and God is over all things. None of us are wrong but neither are we right. We are only wrong in drawing lines of battle instead of love.


This is the problem I'm struggling with and you summed it up perfectly. I feel (probably wrongly), because I'm American and most American's are Christian, we would be the 'good guys'.

However, I look at some of the attrocities we've done as a nation, and I don't think Christ approves. I think I've been looking at it all wrong. It won't be a national decision as to which 'side' you're on but a personal decision.



posted on Jun, 14 2006 @ 05:33 PM
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Originally posted by mecheng
Thanks for the insight Queenanne. That's a whole other way of thinking about it and makes very much sense.

Thanks for listening to my words. I'm glad you are able to see another way to thinking about these things.


The reason I started this thread was because I am thinking about the literal battle... a world war III... a battle to end all battles. And I feel that the world is heading in that direction.

Yes I totally understand where you are coming from. It is part of the journey we take on the path He laid ahead of us. Many can't advance very far because they believe if their mind somehow changes and evolves as it grows in the Spirit, that they are casting aside their 'faith.' So they refuse to see that change and adjustment of the way we see the world is a necessary part of the whole process. It's rather unnerving, certainly--but only if a person holds the idea that 'faith' is the same thing as 'ideas.' The body of ideas that has been taught for almost a millenium about the book of Revelation is a stagnant pool--it is not faith that makes us hold on to our ideas, keeping them from growing to maturity--it is fear.

As far as a literal WWIII, I truly don't see that happening. I think lessons were learned after the bombing of the Japanese cities and I think things ran their course for the purpose of a little good instruction on the part of mankind. That's a whole other topic, but I do agree there is a lot of strife in the world, and in a sense we should feel like WWIII is always around the corner--because it might help us prevent it.


When I think of armageddon, I think of the army of Christ battling the army of satan

That's exactly what it is. Who fights for the side of satan? Those who are still in the world--but who goes into the fray as soldiers of truth? Those who are Christ's.
You can find the instructions for entry volunteer soldiers here:


Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord,
and in the power of his might.
Put on the whole armour of God,
that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood,
but against principalities, against powers,
against the rulers of the darkness of this world,
against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God,
that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day,
and having done all, to stand.
Stand therefore,
having your loins girt about with truth,
and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
Above all, taking the shield of faith,
wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
And take the helmet of salvation,
and the sword of the Spirit,
which is the word of God:
Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit,
and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
(Ephesians 6:10-18 KJV)


Paul is the chosen 5 star General, of course Christ is the Chief in Command. Paul will train you if you look at his words as being about only Christ reconciling the world to God in love. No exceptions. Paul makes a lot of things clear, but they are things that reveal themselves. Religions today try to force Paul's words. But Paul was given words that are mysterious to flesh--the spirit however makes them crystal clear. If you love all men without reserve then the spirit will come to your aid in understanding. But you must LOVE ALL.

I know this for a fact
. Nothing else matters. No cannon is as big as the cannon God gives us for the fight. The ammo is goodwill and love.

Certainly all will 'die with the sword' but that means we will die to the flesh by the word of God, which is truth and double edged steel that no one can escape. It's just a matter of time for everyone. But remember, there is no more national favor by God. That went out with the fulfilling of the perfect passover victim 2000 years ago. Christ died and left his spirit (his soul) so that each man can personally know God. But that also means that the dying and the rebirth and even the battle is an individual process.

All things that might seem God-driven or prophesized, in the world political theater--that is just art imitating artist. We are the Art and God is the Master. The masterpiece isn't quite finished, but it is not up to us to paint the last strokes. Thoughts are things, literally, and what we believe manifests somehow, no matter what. God doesn't care about human politics and God certainly didn't send Christ to die so that we could live only to subject us to more battles and grief.

The sorrows we cause are our own. We learn from them, hopefully--but God only gives good things--even to those we call 'evil.' He makes the sun to shine down on all of us....there is one race in God's eyes--the human race. Religion is nothing to Him, men make religions, they are physical demonstrations just as war is.


I wonder which nations, or which religions, will align themselves with which side.

Doesn't matter--because if they aren't on Christ's side they are against Him. And Christ didn't even raise a finger to defend himself against an unfair and atrocious execution--why would he seek to lead us into a physical battle--by doing so he makes all that he said into a lie. There is no lie within Him, the lies we tell to ourselves!


I worry about the conflicts in the middle east and WWIII being a holy war between Christians and Muslims - the army of Christ vs. the army of satan. And I think that the USA, being mostly Christian, will fight againt the Muslim nations.

I hate to break this to you, and I hope I don't offend you--but muslims and christians fight not because of good vs evil--it is sibling rivalry. Include the jews in that, too.

The muslims are Edom--Esau and Ishmael are the forefathers of the Arab people. There are some really bad things done by muslims, but jews and christians aren't any different. By the same token, there are the real and true gems in all those groups, too. It all depends on whether God is one's leader or if they follow flesh.


However I somethimes wonder, based on some of the attrocities the USA is involved in, if we aren't really the 'bad guys'. These days, I think it's hard to tell who is 'good' and who is 'bad'.
Only God is good. That means the rest of us are the 'bad' guys. And..if God be for us, who can be against us?


But what you've pointed makes sense. It probably won't be a nation against nation scenario but instead 'sides' will be determined at a personal level.

Yes, it is, it will be. For some it has already been won. I've been through armageddon, and that is how I know. It's kind of like a dragon on your left shoulder and Michael on your right and the meet in the plain of Megiddo, which is basically inside your mind. Let them fight and look straight ahead, not right or left, and God will lead you out of the fray. Michael will win on your behalf, so to speak, in Revelation's perspective.

I truly know that this is the way--after it happens the divisions melt away, and all things that mislead fall away--nothing is left but clarity and truth! And it is the same for every man because God loves us all just the same. We must do the same.



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