Corruption complaints against Asian officers 10 times higher.

And?

So now it is a numbers game.

Still, I ask why you where the symbol of an Arab on your mini-profile. St. George was an Arab, it's widely accepted and yet this Nation is willing to accept him as their Patron Saint. You're willing to use his symbol on your profile but won't let his "people" live here?

Can you spell: BIGOT.

Of couse it's a numbers game.
If the numbers were small it wouldn't be a problem but they're not small.
There are now millions of Africans and Asians in Britain and their population is growing fast.

From 100 thousand Asians to over 2 million Asians in just 40 years is a tremendous level of growth and that took place even with restrictions on immigration.

I don't have survey numbers of the West Indian and African populations but the growth is probably of similar numbers.

BTW, why are you so sure the St George is an Arab when the Romans lived in Palestine for centuries? He could just as easily been Roman.

Anyway, I don't really have much of a problem with Chrisitan Arabs or Hindu Asians as they tend to get along well with the native population.
I'm mostly opposed to Muslims and Africans.

[edit on 5-8-2006 by AceOfBase]

Yes, its their place of birth.
Im sorry, but you have REALLY shown your true colours when regarding non-white British citizens.



But you have clearly said that non-whites born in the UK cannot be British, but NOW you say that an Aran born in Palestine is a Roman can you say twisting history to suit a racist agenda?



Who have probably done more for this country than like you. African immigration have done wonders for this Country, in health care, sport and even political ways as well. Plus Africans have increased the attendences in Churchs and Muslims have encourage the Christian population to regain their faith.

Then we have people like you. BNP loving supporters who want to create a 1930s Nazi Germany. A party that creates racial tensions so that they can exploit the people so they can gain power (can you say nazi germany?)

Plus, i don't know why you oppose Africans, your own BNP has members who are not white and there have been calls from members to allow Blacks to join the BNP



[edit on 6-8-2006 by infinite]

[Mod Edit: Insult removed. Please, the debate can be heated yet remain within the T&C's - Jak]

[edit on 6/8/06 by JAK]

Infinite well done for sidetracking the topic onto AceOfbBase’s political views about how he regards nationality. That’s a great tactic it’s a shame it’s not really an argument. But of course it will cause one; well done!!

Which brings me to my question what exactly is your argument-point?

Is it merely: AceOfBase is racist therefore his source cannot be a good one, nor can it hold truth? If it had been posted by a non-racist then there is small chance his source could be a good one, and it could hold truth?

I'm a person who doesn’t fear arguments because I believe in both the power of truth and the evolution of ideas to deny ignorance. I fear tactics; but I acknowledge everyone users them. The tactics I hate and fear most are the ones which are effective in spite of doing little for ether truth or the of evolution of ideas.

Infinite perhaps you should stop reading and dismiss me here? The following is for the board (but I doubt it’s for you)…

I am a modern racist because I do not believe all races are equal; but at the same time neither do I [endorse racial discrimination, I believe like height, eye colour, and sex its use is merely to build up profiles, and subsequent places for investigation.

AceOfBase I agree that not all races are equal. I believe that immigration has a role because the smartest are more likely to migrate. So too will the history of man’s civilisation. If Europeans can develop an immunity to alcohol over Asians (because we used to-drink so much) then it’s also probable that culture and society has changed other things. And there is a great deal of evidence for “racial differences in intelligence”…
1. www.cycad.com...
2. www.mugu.com...
3. www.mugu.com...

If anyone asks why this isn’t more widely talked about maybe it’s because people loose their job, reputation, and is publicly demonised?
It’s extremely arrogant to think the media would jump on something like this no matter how true or untrue it may be. In fact if the media can say something racist that’s untrue is untrue then I bet it’s about ten times more likely to be printed.

BUT!! Here’s Why You Don’t Discriminate…
It’s a law of the universe that nothing is pure; not an even a vacuum (because of something called virtual photons). In fact sea water contains gold (if you have enough of it). No doubt the same is true with race, but worse. It’s an extremely blunt instrument isn’t it? I mean it might be to true that X is ten times more likely than Y to be involved in corruption; but what are the chances of Y being involved in corruption?
It’s a bit unfair to judge the other 90 plus percent on it isn’t it?
There are black men smarter than me or you, just as there are Jews with low IQ’s. At the end of the day race says nothing about the individual; it treats people like we are some batch of something, and that the majority should be chucked away because of the minority. All very well when you are producing industrial goods (better to chuck away 10,000 sweats than let ten people die of some disease-contamination). But it will hardly do when you’re judging individuals lives and career prospects.

Like the distance of where a criminal commits his crimes race has a place; but it’s strictly for statistical analysis.
How people like Hitler thought it was appropriate for deciding who should live or die is kind of beyond me; but then he was a totalitarian fascist who believed in treating people like the factory goods of an all powerful (and therefore terrible) state. So perhaps it made sense to him (even if his racial theory was somewhat-totally flawed).

Given the laws of the universe that nothing is pure and very few of anything is equal it (in my view) makes sense both to acknowledge race has a place, and to also not get worked up over it.
Fact is we don’t live in a free society. There are ATS members (for instance) who will use every tactic in the book, just because they can’t think of an argument. But they have a belief that they are right to be right (Hitler had that; it’s a very unhealthy thing). They will derail an argument if they don’t have an argument, and they detest-disagree agree with you, if you produce one. It’s hard to reason with these people (and in some cases of the politically correct it’s almost-impossible). And if you make progress (with a good argument; and fair methods) they think it’s their tactics which are at fault; or it’s your tactics for apparently been so good?
What I'm saying is that it’s worse than not having an open mind. Many would even agree with sacking people who contradict their beliefs. So much for the evolution of ideas?

And what are you AceOfBase fighting for? The right to use racial profiling for solving problems? Is it really worth been branded with words which in many people’s minds equate to dirt? Is it really going to make a huge difference?

I can’t answer those question for everyone, but personally I think they all deserve a small yes. But it’s a cautious, and very pragmatic “yes”.
Is it really worth putting you’re head on the line if the objective (somewhat better detection methods) doesn’t justify the consequences?

In My View…
Race is true conspiracy that is being oppressed. Some of the knowledge that is being oppressed has helped cause many to go of the rails politically, harm their fellow human beings, all because of extremist racist philosophies. In other words people are being attracted to these because they don’t see the alternatives, precisely because knowledge of the alternatives is being oppressed, due to the tag of being labelled racist (and all which that means, career options?).
Yet ultimately race is a bit of a waist of time. Whilst everything that can catch criminals (or expose those who lead us) is welcome; it pretty much boils down to just that. Meanwhile good people are being wasted through confusing truths, and the attraction of past failed philosophies (like that abhorrent Nazi Germany).

Isn’t this the biggest problem?
And there are surely other problems that deserve more attention?
Now that you have the “truth?” (don’t ask me how I obtained it) I suggest you go armed with that and put things more into perspective. A good general rarely uses all his forces at once, keep the knowledge in the background and not always on the front line. Even so you were so right to do this post (unless there’s something wrong with this source) Odium, Infinite, Sminkeypinky anybody? Make you’re case (yes a case)

Where's the corruption in that?

Having lived in SEAsia I'm glad when I have to deal with Australian cops, they are polite and to the point and they don't ask for money, whether they are assisting or detaining you.

- Living in NI as I do I recall the fuss over the publication of this 'research' (cos some of it came from the University of Ulster).
(It is not 'authoritative' anyway and is much disputed.)

Racists love to quote this but quite obviously rarely bother to actually read it.

If you look at the tables compiled within the paper(s) you'll see that whilst according to the strictest interpretation of the data there are indeed a (very small) series of 'differences', so what? Those differences are tiny and contradictory in places.

So what & big deal. It does not 'back' the racist 'case'.

If you look you'll also see that the same small degrees of variation apply between nations (supposedly of the same 'race') and people of the same so-called ethnicity living in different countries.

One can point to these very minor differences to to try and claim these are solely on the basis of 'race' (despite there being only one single human race now anyway) but this is plainly simply quite wrong.

(.....but let's be clear, don't be under any illusion that people fully understand why those that wish to claim otherwise do so.

You can kid yourself all you like and try to find and use whatever disputed fig-leaf of respectability you can unearth but you're fooling no-one and the bottom-line is invariably always the same.

This isn't about recognising and respecting any 'difference' in humanity this is about those who seek to promote division where there is none significant or worth creating division over.

ie it is the domain of the twisted, ugly and, frankly, the ill.
Enjoy. )

[edit on 7-8-2006 by sminkeypinkey]

Liberal1984, the reason it is important is rather simple.

Take for example, the report he is using. It was laughable at the best and at worst, should have never even been published. The fact of the report, is they get confused on the terms of ethnicity, race and religion with no clear definition. In fact, in various other links he published he has shown how muslims are not all Asian. However, he tried to make out though the problem is to do with them being Muslim.

You see the issue here? If you have a predefined hate to a group of people, you will grasp at anything to try and paint them in a bad light. This is what he is doing here.

Take for example this quote:


So all British Pakistanis are Muslim? Then it goes on to say:


Oh my! 300 Muslim Police Officers? :O Think of the level of corruption that they can acheive among themselves!

I can go on and rip this report to shreds. The simple fact is, whoever conducted it was more than likely a bigot. Whoever conducted it has no knowledge of race, ethnicity or religion which are very different things.

Maybe if AceofBase would bother to read what he posts, instead of trying to make Blacks and Muslims look bad we'd not have to show him as a bigot? But then he doesn't even think they should have a right to live in this country. So it's doubtful.

Excuse me while i laugh out loud at "racial differences in intelligence" theory that the BNP supports aswell when it comes to justifying their views i think its hilarious also that Liberal1984 decided to focus on me when other members also pointed out the racist agenda in this post and previous ones aswell

at first, i wasn't even going to warrent him/her a reply *yawns*



Yeah, i did stop reading after you posted a theory that the British National Party supports and even Skynews focused on once and dismissed

And regarding that all races are not equal, thats a lie. We are all equal, but some people (and groups) like to use little things to make a race out to be less or better than the other. Its a pathetic arguement really.

The best thing about it, infinite is that the: "racial differences in intelligence" theory paints white people in a bad light. In fact, I can detail it with a few graphs below that I have snagged from Wikipedia:

image source: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/ce/Sketch-4race-transparent2.png/800px-Sketch-4race-transparent2.png


image source: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/bd/IQ-4races-rotate-highres.png/800px-IQ-4races-rotate-highres.png


image source: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b5/GRE_by_race.png


So let us get this right. First, he calls Asians Corrupt and then uses a thoery which shows Asians as having a higehr IQ and better grades than white people?

What's the line from the song:
"We don't need no education!" - did the BNP adopt that?

[edit on 7/8/2006 by Odium]

Those Asians are not Pakistanis and Bangladeshis.
Here are GCE A level results for White, Indian, Chinese, Pakistani, etc...



I don't deny that some Asians are more intelligent than whites but I still think that Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, Africans and West Indians do not belong in Britain or Europe and none of these exam scores affects corruption among police officers which is what this thread was about.

And AceOfBase?

Why don't they belong here? You can't give one reason and back it up. They don't belong here because white people attack them? Fantastic logic. They don't belong here because some of them attack people? Fantastic logic.

Furthermore, your point on Muslims doesn't stand up. You get white muslims, chinese muslims and so on and so fourth.

You are nothing more than a bigot. It was thanks to those from India, Pakistan and many other Nation's that Britain wasn't destroyed in World War Two.

What about the working class students? they tend to have low marks in exam due to their up bringing and the lack of educational support due to family wealth? want to throw them out too?.

You have to admit, there is a major flaw in your theory.

[edit on 7-8-2006 by infinite]

Well, Ace, you'd better get ready for the influx of white Aussies, Kiwis, Canadians, Singaporeans, South Africans, Kenyans, Zambians et al returning home, 'cause if "coloured" immigrants don't belong in the UK, then white people surely don't belong in the places I mentioned.

Say, do you have room for 100,000,000 American returnees?

And I don't believe the thread is about police corruption at all. I believe it is another attempt by you to demonstrate your superiority and "their" inferiority. You completely misunderstood the situation in Sydney, but had no hesitation in wading into the argument and blaming it all on Muslim immigrants.

I have no problem at all with asking the whites in Africa and Asia to return to Europe.
I feel that they do not belong there just as the Africans and Muslim Asians do not belong in Europe.

I'd especially like the South Africans and Zimbabweans to return home because it looks pretty bad over there now.

southafricaiscrap.blogspot.com...

I just hope that Britain and other European countries will open their borders and welcome back the whites from Asia and Africa.

The US, Canada, Australia and New Zealand are a bit tougher.
Those lands were sparsely populated by the Native Americans and Aboriginals from what I've read.
They are good examples however, about what happens when you don't defend your land from foreign invaders/migrants.

Between 8 million and 200million, depending on the source. That is a lot of people for the size of the place and the time period.



It is actually more what happens when cultures do not understand one another and when racists are allowed into power. Many white people brought illness which killed them off due to no immunity. They also didn't understand why the Tribal Americans needed certain animals that they themselves wouldn't eat.

When we are able to create understand, the people lived fine with one another.

That's a lot higher than the estimates that I've seen.
EDIT: Above the Rio Grande refers to the current area of the US and Canada.



en.wikipedia.org...

There are still too many Americans, Candians and Australians to transport them all back to Europe but there's lot of room in Africa to send back the African migrants who are currently in Europe. Space is a little tighter in Pakistan and Bangladesh but Europe could at least stop new migrants from those countries from migrating into Europe.

[edit on 7-8-2006 by AceOfBase]

My point exactly. Thank you!

Wow.
My head actually hurts.

What is wrong with being Muslim? You can be Norwegian, or Dutch, or Japanese. And you're family could have lived there for 10 thousand years. One day you pick up a Quran and become Muslim. How can you be opposed to one's free will to choose a religious phliosphy?

And African? There are PLENTY of well behaved, civil Africans. Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, hell, even native tribes believe in stuff we haven't even heard of. So you can't dislike Africans becuase of religious outlook, they're all the same as any other CONTINENT.

I'm not sure if you're just confusing belief with ethnicity, or what...Maybe you just don't even care to use your language properly. In either case, I'd really like to know what goes no in your head.


[edit on 8/8/2006 by Arcane Demesne]

Infinite I was congratulating you on your tactics.

Sminkeypinky I agree with you that firstly race differences are relatively small, that they cannot ever judge a person as a person (only as a product) (in this case it’s one of nature). However I think they have a use, and I think all profiling and all knowledge has a use. And I hate it whenever people are defamed for speaking-exposing the truth. (Infinite there are reasons why certain things aren’t always in the press in this its political correctness.)

The ideology-beliefs behind most modern political correctness have a useful and often great role. However I believe nothing is closer to ether been right or good for being essentially authoritarian in nature. Political correctness is a fine example of this but only because it is contaminated by authoritarian thought; and where this is unidentifiable it’s open to ridicule by anyone. Fact is the worst charge against something that is right is that it’s cold-heartedly pragmatic (“the less of two evils” as they say).

Back to the data: The thing about whether or not it backs the racist argument is a matter of perspective (as if anything). However we do not need to fear whether Hitler was wrong. In fact far from it, the truths in race science actually disproves both white supremacy and at least Hitler’s brand of Nazism. And personally I will always hate Nazism for being destructive, and for treating people like factory products. It’s inhumane to the point of extreme evil; but (like most things of that nature) it only ends being so through being fundamentally wrong.

Infinite…
Since you said:

Could you then educate us about why it’s a lie? After all I’ve shown you my evidence for why we are “probably?” not universally equally equal; now you show yours for why we are. Is there something about evolution that keeps everything at the same rate? Perhaps there’s some process? Or surely at least an identified phenomenon?

Get back soon!!!
Otherwise people might think all you’ve got is stuff you’ve read in the press countless times, and so (a bit like George Orwell’s 1984) it must therefore be correct?

But it is an interesting question “why aren’t things like race statistics more widely in the press?” After all you can mention any other one; but when race comes to something (even like medicine) then a hornet’s nest is kicked.
As said we can look to political correctness being authoritarian for the answer; or is there some other conspiracy going on? Well who knows but anyone wishing to argue the latter should treed very carefully with wisdom otherwise you will be shot down. I’ll give a clue about what I think the answer to the last conspiracy is: The answer is very dangerous, so much so its one of the few things you can say that will put you in danger (hence that’s all I’ll say).

AceOf Base Of course if you say there’s too many of this or that race you are going to fall into a trap, and is it’s a misunderstanding it’s a trap that no person invented.
Basically; firstly infinite is right
Secondly: what about the inheritant fact that profiling does not do people justice as people (only products)
Thirdly: What is wrong with the other means used to screen people? We can screen someone for criminality, stupidity far better with other techniques than race. Race might justify a higher budget for screening people in certain groups but that is where the buck stops.
4thly Even if (I believe hypothetically) the other techniques weren’t as good as race why is the worlds 4th greatest economy short of the money needed to do justify through enhanced other techniques?
5th Do we want to go in for all this screening stuff anyway? Perhaps it’s best just to treat every migrant like a new born citizen? Then if they go wrong, then we come down on them? More efficient, more just I don’t know. But I think there are circumstances where profiling can automatically lead to a good case for screening (the issues surrounding the screening itself determine how far screening should go). After all that is (in my view) the purpose of profiling, not discrimination but rather identifying cases for screening, the outcome of the screening itself (alone) should determine whether there’s a case for actual discrimination.

You strike me as a well intended fellow AceOfBase; but there are traps AceOfBase, some of them set by people (the word “tactics” usually covers that) whilst others are set by the misunderstandings that surround knowledge. Race is full of ones you mustn’t really fall in. But the truth is the truth; and even when those who peddle the lies, or believe the misunderstandings have died, it is the truth that will survive, both for humans (and any aliens that might visit us a few billion years from now).

Side Note…
Philosophically I would say that says a lot about the battle between good and evil; because often even when evil has one it still losers (if you know what I mean) (it had lost from the start).