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what don't the masons want us to know

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Cug

posted on Jun, 21 2006 @ 08:38 PM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light

Crowley became involved with John Yarker soon afterward, who recognized Crowley's spurious 33° that he received from a Cerneau Consistory in Mexico. This is rather odd because Crowley purchased his 33° patent from the Cerneau Rite in 1900, 4 years before he became a Mason, even an irregular one, which should have shown Yarker that it was bogus.


What is your source that he purchased the 33° in Mexico and that is was a part of the Cerneau Rite? And is it really odd the Yarker would accept it if he had? After all there are many claims that Yarker was a patent mill himself.

I have yet to find anybody who has written much at all about Don Jesus Medina and his branch of masonry or the magical order he and Crowley formed "The Lamp of Invisible Light."

Anyway, the best article I know about Crowley and Freemasonry was written by Martin P. Starr (a member of the O.T.O. and a Mason). freemasonry.bcy.ca...




posted on Jun, 21 2006 @ 09:01 PM
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Originally posted by Cug
Anyway, the best article I know about Crowley and Freemasonry was written by Martin P. Starr (a member of the O.T.O. and a Mason). freemasonry.bcy.ca...


Cug,

Actually Martin Starr is not and was NEVER a member of the OTO. He was a member of the SOTO (a splinter group) from which he resigned over 20 years ago.

(Source: Martin Starr; personal friend)



posted on Jun, 21 2006 @ 09:42 PM
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Hey guys maybe one of you can help me i did a goggle search but couldn't find nothing does anyone know what the G over V symbol means if so i would appreciated.



posted on Jun, 22 2006 @ 07:30 AM
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Originally posted by Cug


What is your source that he purchased the 33° in Mexico and that is was a part of the Cerneau Rite? And is it really odd the Yarker would accept it if he had?


According to Crowley's "Confessions", he traveled to Mexico in June 1900, and received a patent of the 33° from one Don Jesus Medina before returning home. Medina was a member of the "Supreme Grand Council of the Ancient and Accepted Scotch Rite", which was a Cerneau Council. Apparently, Medina and Crowley hit it off, and shared a common interest in hermeticism.


After all there are many claims that Yarker was a patent mill himself.


Yes, this claim was made against most of the Memphis leaders.


I have yet to find anybody who has written much at all about Don Jesus Medina and his branch of masonry or the magical order he and Crowley formed "The Lamp of Invisible Light."


Anyway, the best article I know about Crowley and Freemasonry was written by Martin P. Starr (a member of the O.T.O. and a Mason). freemasonry.bcy.ca...


Good one, although with that link, I think you answered your own question about Crowley's patent!

I'd always thought that Starr had been an O.T.O. member too. Wasn't he listed as a plaintiff in the O.T.O.'s lawsuit against the S.O.T.O.?


Cug

posted on Jun, 22 2006 @ 07:34 AM
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Originally posted by Appak

Actually Martin Starr is not and was NEVER a member of the OTO. He was a member of the SOTO (a splinter group) from which he resigned over 20 years ago.


No kidding!? Well you learn something new every day.


Replace O.T.O with well respected Thelemic/Crowley scholar in my last post.



posted on Jun, 22 2006 @ 06:32 PM
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Originally posted by Cug

Originally posted by Appak

Actually Martin Starr is not and was NEVER a member of the OTO. He was a member of the SOTO (a splinter group) from which he resigned over 20 years ago.


No kidding!? Well you learn something new every day.


Replace O.T.O with well respected Thelemic/Crowley scholar in my last post.


LOL. That's a good thing, though, right? Learning something new every day.

Yes, I've known Martin for about 15 years or so and we correspond often. He's taken a lot of flack over his writings regarding the O.T.O. And, yes, he is a well respected scholar and interestingly enough, he's a 33rd Degree Mason.



posted on Jun, 23 2006 @ 02:00 AM
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Originally posted by skitzo
Hey guys maybe one of you can help me i did a goggle search but couldn't find nothing does anyone know what the G over V symbol means if so i would appreciated.


The Freemasons rely heavily on the architectural symbolism of the medieval operative Masons who actually worked in stone. One of their principal symbols is the square and compasses, tools of the trade, so arranged as to form a quadrilateral. The square is sometimes said to represent matter, and the compasses spirit or mind. Alternatively, the square might be said to represent the world of the concrete, or the measure of objective reality, while the compasses represent abstraction, or subjective judgment, and so forth (Freemasonry being non-dogmatic, there is no written-in-stone interpretation for any of these symbols). The compasses straddle the square, representing the interdependence between the two. In the space between the two, there is optionally placed a symbol of metaphysical significance. Sometimes, this is a blazing star or other symbol of Light, representing Truth or knowledge. Alternatively, there is often a letter G placed there, usually said to represent God and/or Geometry.

Source
This is the general answer. Above you will also find a link that explains much of the Freemason history and practices, as well as prerequisites to becoming a member,...etc. There are also some less widely accepted theories from those that would paint the Masons in a different light than traditionally Christian. Those that would say that Masonry is more related to the worship of the Sun God, or at least, was in its origins. This theory claims that the "V", or Square, is representative of the original female symbol known as Chalice, the female reproductive organs in their relationship to mother earth and the regeneration of the human race. The Compas is then respectively the male genitalia in relationship to the Square,..etc. The "G" is supposedly meant to represent "Generative Principle".
Here is a website that will go on and on about the subject, giving their speculation to your heart's content. The point is, there are many varying concepts and ideas regarding the true meaning behind the symbol, but the one stated at the beginning of this post is going to be your best bet, as it is the one most widely accepted, and more importantly, the meaning that is taught to any new member of the Freemason society. Hope that helps.



posted on Jun, 23 2006 @ 05:27 AM
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Originally posted by EdenKaia
The point is, there are many varying concepts and ideas regarding the true meaning behind the symbol, but the one stated at the beginning of this post is going to be your best bet, as it is the one most widely accepted, and more importantly, the meaning that is taught to any new member of the Freemason society. Hope that helps.

Indeed, the only valid meaning of any given symbol in any given context is the meaning ascribed to it by the user. Any other answer is gibberish.

A common example of the misunderstanding that can arise from this is the Swastika. To one person this symbol can represent Evil, as it was used and abused by the Nazis and has come to represent them latterly. But the original symbol is positive, used in central south Asia I believe, as a symbol of good luck. Each meaning is valid, depending on the perspective, it is just our lack of knowledge about these matters that creates friction.

We all naturally make value judgements and assumptions about this sort of thing every day, and if you see a white man with jack boots and militia clothing you might take a different view of that individual's interpretation of the symbol, than if you saw a Hindi lady with the same symbol. If you were less knowledgeable, you might think the Hindi lady was a Nazi, of course.

The meaning of symbols used in masonry, in a masonic context have the meaning ascribed to them by freemasonry and nothing else. Outside of this context anything goes, of course. If an individual freemason has a personal interpretation of a symbol representing something special to him personally, that's fine too and is a matter for him (although he should be aware of the confusion he may sow :lol
.

We need to take great care in telling people what their symbols mean, and ultimately only they are qualified to comment on their own perception and beliefs.



posted on Jun, 23 2006 @ 07:13 AM
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Originally posted by Appak
He's taken a lot of flack over his writings regarding the O.T.O. And, yes, he is a well respected scholar and interestingly enough, he's a 33rd Degree Mason.



He's also Secretary of the Scottish Rite Research Society, and regularly contributes to the Society's journal The Plumbline on topics related to Crowleyana. Every time I read one of his articles, I wonder what our 65 year-old Presbyterian members must be thinking.



posted on Jun, 23 2006 @ 01:01 PM
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Did Angelo Secchi wear underoos?

Hail ERIS!


Originally posted by 23
Do masons know something non-masons know. And if not why are they so secret.


23

[edit on 12-6-2006 by 23]



posted on Jul, 5 2006 @ 12:37 AM
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I have seen alot of the same old myths and urban legends on this thread. Masonry is not controled by a secret select few unbeknownst to the rest. Like the previous comment stated the leadership is elected.

That comment is a negative anyway, one which you could never prove nor disprove.

Masonry really has no secrets because of the many exposes and books out there describing the rituals.



posted on Jul, 5 2006 @ 01:25 AM
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I'm not sure what ANY mason's stance is on this video, The Pharmacratic Inquisition

although I know a lot of Masons help went into it...

For a run down of the video BEFORE you watch it.. (I say before because if u're just going to glance at the page and come back and rant your being biased and prejudice)
Go Here...
The Pharmacratic Inquisition

NOW I want to get your attention HERE before you go any further...
I think it would be a great project for some of US Ats'ers to go over the findings in this movie...

Could it be that the freemasons hold the knowledge that "psychedelic/entheogenic substances where publicly known world wide and were respected for their ability to bring forth the divine" I'm only suggesting this.. as I am not a mason and can't tell you what they think... but it would be fitting..

(39) Jesus said, "The Pharisees and the Scribes have taken the keys to acquaintance and hidden them. They have neither entered nor let those who want to enter enter. You (plur.), then, be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves."


considering their 'open' stance on drugs...


side note
It was under my understanding that the keys of solomon among other things was a direction guide to finding the amanita muscaria and similar mushrooms in the forest, not a guide per-se, just that it talked about it, in a round-about way... I'm sorry I've only heard about this, so I don't have anything to support it.. but is anyone seeing any connection?



posted on Jul, 5 2006 @ 01:59 AM
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What on earth do you mean by our "open" stance on drugs?

each mason i'm sure has his own stance on drugs, i'm sure their are those who use them....however i know personally i dont nor would i EVER allow someone who was high into my lodge. they would be asked to leave right away.

NOR do we EVER use drugs in any of our rituals....so what exactly is this "open" drug policy?



posted on Jul, 5 2006 @ 02:19 AM
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Originally posted by umwolves123
What on earth do you mean by our "open" stance on drugs?

each mason i'm sure has his own stance on drugs, i'm sure their are those who use them....however i know personally i dont nor would i EVER allow someone who was high into my lodge. they would be asked to leave right away.

NOR do we EVER use drugs in any of our rituals....so what exactly is this "open" drug policy?


that is EXACTLY what I meant by my comment.

Hence the quote I used........
my quotations on "open" were meant as sarcasm.. lol


But maybe this is what people are talking about, the duality in freemasonry.. some who look at things differently?.. I don't know..
Obviously you wouldn't want a brotherhood about drugs or you'd have loser druggies bugging you and asking you dumb questions about symbols... Maybe thats the reason behind 'degrees'

But why would you ask a member who was high, say on marijuana to leave? .. especially if they were a 'veteran' stoner and was 'normal' [not your typical pothead who can't stop mumbling how high they are]
Just wondering..

it's the same question I have when it comes to churches kicking the homeless out, or for that matter drug users as well..


NOR do we EVER use drugs in any of our rituals....so what exactly is this "open" drug policy?


You mean you never use any illegal drugs.. because you sure use A LOT of brain chemicals.. influenced and manipulated through emotional feelings and stimuli...



posted on Jul, 5 2006 @ 05:09 AM
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I'm only suggesting this.. as I am not a mason and can't tell you what they think

Pleased to hear it. As a mason I can tell you that drugs and masonry are as connected as fish and bicycles. Freemasonry is only ever EVER interested in masonic matters, and leaves everything else (including drug taking) to the conscience of each individual member. But since every freemason is expected not to break the law you can draw your own conclusions about the predominant attitude to illegal drugs



You mean you never use any illegal drugs.. because you sure use A LOT of brain chemicals.. influenced and manipulated through emotional feelings and stimuli...

You're describing life itself - the natural highs and lows of Joy and Despair. The birth of a child; the death of a loved one; some success at work; a poor judgement call leading to hurt for others - endorphines perpetually 'manipulate' us, this is God's design. To Feel, to Hope, to Love, to Cry. Freemasonry encourages a man to follow more closely his own beliefs, and through those beliefs come to a better understanding of God and the universe around him.

There are people out there who are afraid to face the big questions for fear of what they may find, in God or in themselves. Freemasonry is not for them.



posted on Jul, 5 2006 @ 07:15 AM
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Originally posted by dnero6911

But why would you ask a member who was high, say on marijuana to leave? .. especially if they were a 'veteran' stoner and was 'normal' [not your typical pothead who can't stop mumbling how high they are]
Just wondering..


Attending Lodge while intoxicated, even on legal substances such as alcohol, is in violation of protocol. It shows a profound lack of respect for the fraternity, and one who did such a thing may not only be asked to leave, but is subject to Masonic discipline.


it's the same question I have when it comes to churches kicking the homeless out, or for that matter drug users as well..


I don't think the two scenarios can be compared. Obviously, a church wouldn't kick out a drug addict who wandered in. But if a baptized member of the church became a drug addict, he would likewise be subject to church discipline, up to and including excommunication, in accordance with the procedures laid down by the Apostle Paul in the Scriptures, in dealing with apostates. Certainly, this would be a last resort, and the church member would be given a chance to conform.



You mean you never use any illegal drugs.. because you sure use A LOT of brain chemicals.. influenced and manipulated through emotional feelings and stimuli...


A drug, by definition, is a foreign substance introduced into the body that causes physiological change. Such things are not used in Freemasonry. We all use brain chemicals 24/7, but these are natural products of biology, not foreign substances introduced for recreational highs.



posted on Jul, 5 2006 @ 09:46 AM
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hrmm.. well I find that interesting to say the least... but my question is.. if freemasonry is about the light or knowledge how can they dismiss a very important part of society [drugs].. from a shamanistic point-of-view? so can freemasons make the sound judgement that those types of spiritual awakening are wrong? and if so, what makes the freemasons way correct? (just asking)

another thing.. obviously every freemason looks at freemasonry different (right?) so could it not be set up for people to "take" at will??? whatever knowledge they deem necessary for 'enlightenment' if you know what I mean.. like a 'figure-it-out-yourself' buffet?

I'm not trying to misunderstand freemasonry, but its hard to understand I suppose unless your a member.



posted on Jul, 5 2006 @ 11:15 AM
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Originally posted by dnero6911
hrmm.. well I find that interesting to say the least... but my question is.. if freemasonry is about the light or knowledge how can they dismiss a very important part of society [drugs].. from a shamanistic point-of-view?
so can freemasons make the sound judgement that those types of spiritual awakening are wrong? and if so, what makes the freemasons way correct? (just asking)


Freemasonry has no stance on whether shamanistic points of view are correct. Rather, Freemasonry's "light" concerns the light of reason; and reason is often muddled through the use of intoxicants (which is why their use is forbidden in many systems, for example, Buddhism).


another thing.. obviously every freemason looks at freemasonry different (right?)


Most Masons see Masonry the same way, in general; at least, they do if they've paid attention.


so could it not be set up for people to "take" at will??? whatever knowledge they deem necessary for 'enlightenment' if you know what I mean.. like a 'figure-it-out-yourself' buffet?


I suppose the problem could be addressed in a couple of different ways. First, the Mason, in his initiation, is charged with keeping the laws of his country, provided they are not immoral. In most countries, marijuana, for example, is illegal.

Secondly, enlightenment, at least in my view, is a spiritual awakening. And like the aforementioned Buddha, I don't see how true spiritual awakening can result from clouding one's mind with intoxicants.

(On a side note, I smoked a ton of that stuff when I was a kid, and didn't get anywhere near enlightenment through it. Rather, I passed my hippy days playing Uno and listening to Jefferson Airplane albums.)



posted on Jul, 5 2006 @ 04:51 PM
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[

Incidentally, sinister secret societies would probably not have websites broadcasting to the world their existance and beliefs.



Surely you've heard about disinformation. Everyone knows the Freemasons exist. This is not hidden. Everyone knows and knew the Nazis existed. The fact that their existence is clearly known is not some proof of their innocence regarding their true nature.
I find the following quotes from Albert Pike to be pretty good reasons to begin questioning the true nature of freemasonry.
"LUCIFER, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darknesss! Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with its splendors intolerable blinds feeble, sensual or selfish Souls? Doubt it not!" p.321
...
"Masonry, like all the Religions, all the Mysteries, Hermeticism and Alchemy, conceals its secrets from all except the Adepts and Sages, or the Elect, and uses false explanations and misinterpretations of its symbols to mislead those who deserve only to be misled, to conceal the truth, which it calls Light, from them, and to draw them away from it. Truth is not for those who are unworthy or unable to receive it, or would pervert it."
...
"The Blue Degrees are but the outer court or portico of the Temple. Part of the symbols are displayed there to the Initiate, but he is intentionally misled by false interpretations. It is not intended that he shall understand them; but it is intended that he shall imagine he understands them. Their true explication is reserved for the Adepts, the Princes of Masonry ... It is well enough for the mass of those called Masons, to imagine that all is contained in the Blue Degrees; and whose attempts to undeceive them will labor in vain."

I also consider the notion of protecting truth by swearing vicious oaths vis a vis the breaking of freemaonsy's secrecy code, to be contrary to any kind of truth I would wish to belong to.
I also consider truth or real spirituality to be intimately connected with the merging of oneself with life/God/the Self etc in a spirit of humility.....and all this Grand Master titled stuff to be exactly at odds with this true wisdom, in that we are dealing with something that is exalting the ego rather than warning against it. And this in a nutshell is what good/evil.Gid/Satan is all about. The satanic is the ego pushed to its nth which ultimately ensures its own annihilation. THere is no middle ground. The truth of an idea is seen clearly by pushing it to its nth. And freemasonry from what I can make out is in the dark camp.
Crowley's "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law" incidentally is the prefect summation of the satanic belief, or if one is repelled by such dramatic words as satanic, it is the exaltation of the ego. And this may sound great and liberating to some, but remember that the logical follow ons from this idea are that, for example, there is nothing wrong with extermination camps. Or that the vilest thing you can imagine is not vile at all. That for example slitting a child's troath and forcing another child to drink the blood(forgive the ugliness of the example but the point should be made), before sexually abusing that child.. well that's all perfectly ok and even good as it exalts one's sense of self.

[edit on 5-7-2006 by andrew ky]

[edit on 5-7-2006 by andrew ky]



posted on Jul, 5 2006 @ 08:15 PM
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Originally posted by andrew ky
Incidentally, sinister secret societies....
Surely you've heard about disinformation.....
I find the following quotes from Albert Pike ......
"LUCIFER, the Light-bearer.....
"Masonry, like all the Religions......
"The Blue Degrees are but the outer.....




andrew,

One of the best things you could ever do on this list (which I did) is go back and read the posts from the past. Don't respond to the old ones, just read them. You'll learn a lot and you'll see that the above has been covered ad nauseam.



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