Unnoticed Flying Objects During Shuttle Launch *new*

I really cant believe you people still think its perspective. The objects CLEARLY disappear into the PLUME OF SMOKE DIRECTLY UNDER THE SHUTTLE.

media.putfile.com...


Please tell me, if the objects are able to fly in and out of the plume of smoke from the shuttle, where then would they be positioned in the sky?? Almost directly below the shuttle. Accept the shuttle is turning a bit. Also, the wind reported that day was pushing both the clouds and the shuttles plume closer together, towards the camera slightly. There is NO DOUBT IN THE WORLD that these large dots disappear behind the plume.. NO DOUBT. Anyone saying it is a compression effect on a small object is WRONG, because these objects simply ARE NOT SMALL. Even when you zoom in on the object in a photo editor, the object FADES into the plume, and its RGB value from black, starts to take the RGB color of the plume of smoke. We all know smoke isn't solid, so it MAY appear to be "a compression" effect, but it is indeed NOT. The 3 objects completely disappear in the video more towards the end, in a single file line. That would mean, the perspective of these objects is correct. The objects are NOT closer than the plume. They are flying though the plume. How hard is it to see the OBJECTS ARE CLEARLY TURNING INTO THE PLUME. Every time the go to fly near it, they just so happen to be turning right "in front" or "into" it.

If you are to blind to see that, then i suggest you stop posting on this thread. The objects are almost directly under the shuttle.

[edit on 13-6-2006 by LAES YVAN]

MAJIC'S POST
^^^

Honestly, there have been a minimum of 3 Moderator posts addressing the issue of off-topic and anecdotal/derogatory comments which contribute absolutely nothing to the thread or the focus of discussion.

LAES YVAN has put forth a video of what is purported to be UFOs during a SS launch.

Address the video, and discussion thereof, OR don't post.

Simple





[edit on 6/13/2006 by 12m8keall2c]

Originally posted by LAES YVAN
There is NO DOUBT IN THE WORLD that these large dots disappear behind the plume..

See if you can see the objects disappear in the blue sky on the left of the smoke plume. I can see that they almost disappear and I think they almost disappear when flying in front of the smoke plume.

If you are to blind to see that, then i suggest you stop posting on this thread. The objects are almost directly under the shuttle.

I will not accept your suggestion, even if I was blind to that and to all the other things.

I am entitled to my opinion in the same way you are entitled to have your own opinion.

I think that I have an explanation for those images, you think my explanation does not explain it.

Fine.

But as long as I live I will be entitled to have an opinion and as long as have an opinion I will make it known to the people that I think need/deserve to know that.

Deny ignorance, please, in all its forms.

PS:please, do not shout, I may be blind but I am not deaf.

They do not "almost disappear" in the blue sky, i can clearly see 3 to 4 of their pixels at all times, except for when they go into the clouds, and plume. I have tracked, and documented their flight path, perfectly, only because they always appear as 3 or more dark pixels. I think you may need to look closer..

b.t.w. dont mistake my CAPS for "shouting". Yelling or Shouting only exists in your head when you are reading it, and I have no control over that.

I hate useing tags to switch to italics or bold, so i use the next best thing CAPS.



[edit on 13-6-2006 by LAES YVAN]

Expression Caps

Originally posted by LAES YVAN
I hate useing tags to switch to italics or bold, so i use the next best thing CAPS.

We have other members who also do this, including some staff members.

However, we still ask that -- whenever possible -- members avoid using caps excessively.

All Caps

A few words or phrases in caps here and there won't kill anyone, but posts or titles consisting of all caps are definitely out.

Personally, if members can discuss this topic without insulting one another, caps or no caps, I'll be thrilled.

Sorry for the digression. The topic is UFOs sighted at a shuttle launch.



P.S. Let's remember that UFOs are, by definition, unidentified. Members can disagree on what they may actually be, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Please remember that this is ATS, not a gaming forum, and that all members are to be treated with respect. If you insult one of us, you insult all of us.

Originally posted by LAES YVAN
They do not "almost disappear" in the blue sky, i can clearly see 3 to 4 of their pixels at all times, except for when they go into the clouds, and plume. I have tracked, and documented their flight path, perfectly, only because they always appear as 3 or more dark pixels. I think you may need to look closer..

To me, "almost disappear" means that they do not disappear but are much less visible, that is way I said that they "almost" disappear.

What I think, in case you have not read my previous posts, is that the flying objects do not have the same colour all over them, one of their faces being lighter than the other, and when that face is turned to us we can not see them when they are in front of a white or light grey object, but in front of the blue sky they are "almost" invisible.

That is why I said that if we had a video with more colours than this one (or maybe a better conversion from the original) maybe we could understand better what these flying objects are.

Also, if you do not like my opinion what were you expecting when you asked

So what do you think these objects are?

Were you only expecting people who think the same way as you think?

You may find some but, as everything in life, you may also find people that have a different opinion.

To answer directly to you question, I think these objects are large birds.

b.t.w. dont mistake my CAPS for "shouting". Yelling or Shouting only exists in your head when you are reading it, and I have no control over that.

The fact that you see those birds fly behind or inside of the smoke plume is only in your head too.

Seriously, I know that shouting is only in my head, even the real shouting is only a interpretation our brain makes of the vibrations detected.

But I have always seen mentioned, and I feel the same way, that it is considered rude to write things in all caps because it is the equivalent of trying to make your point in a discussion by making a louder noise and not by making better replies, and your answer shows that you know what I was talking about.

Originally posted by imbalanced
Whats PETA ? That sounds intersting ?? LOLOLOLOLOL

PETA - People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals
They are a group dedicated to the elimination of all domesticated animals from the face of the Earth. They pretend to be for animal rights when in fact they destroy any of the animals they claim to have saved. They are infamous for their criminal antics like throwing paint on fur coats, vandalism and demonstrating nude etc.. They don't get much attention any more other than for comic relief.

Back on topic -
BRAVO on this thread and sticking to your guns. You have my respect even though I think you are wrong. You have kept control where others would have totally lost it.

Originally posted by ArMaP
one of their faces being lighter than the other, and when that face is turned to us we can not see them when they are in front of a white or light grey object, but in front of the blue sky they are "almost" invisible.

You must have not seen the whole video. There is multiple times where the objects are flying away/towards the camera, in front of the grey/white clouds, whre they are STILL visible. Once again, while the objects are flying away AND towards the camera, they are STILL visible. For example.. when the objects first appear in the video, all three of the objects are flying towards the camera, and they are perfectly visible, as a large black dot.

[edit on 13-6-2006 by LAES YVAN]

Hi LAES YVAN,
I just got back on the pute, and low and behold, this is really turning into a very opinionated debate, even the MOD'S are here!!

I have showed your footage to a few friends of mine that work with cameras, both digital and movie, and they are in accordance that there is something to your little clip of the space shuttle. At first, they weren't sure what to make of it, but as they realized that their earlier notion's was based on the for mentioned "Preception" theory, they admitted that there is no way that the thing's at that height and distance would even show up if they were bird's of any species. There was some mention from the film specialist that had posted earlier,(No offense meant) that there would be un decipherable distances that take place to cause the illusion that you see on your footage where perception becomes disoriented and deceiving, my friend says that there is a point where and when someone is shooting footage, regardless of the equiptment , there are still the attributes of the object of focus and the friends that I have, have been in the film making business for about 10 to 15 yr.'s now, say that there is no way to write these off as bird's for sure. He too brought up the distance and range factor's to help me better understand, and basically it came full circle that there is no bird large enough , not even for filming, at that height and at that distace that would create the size, speed and formation of flight that you see in your footage. He did pick on you a little bit about it being a "PUTtfile" (SP?) but none the less, you have other people that have seen this in my realms of friend's, whom you don't know that totally agree,"Those are UFO's" Unidentified Flying Objects,but "Definately not birds" for sure .

Just thought that I would let you know that there are people out here that "See what they See!!!"

I have seen all the video, several times, enlarged to 200%, to 300%, with sharpen applied, with edge enhancement applied, etc., etc.

I used VirtualDub, an excellent freeware program with many filters available that makes it easy to change many things in the video and has a easy way to see the video frame by frame.

I think that the objects are birds that have the upper "face" (when flying) of a different colour, a common case in birds.

If the birds are circling around a point, when they are in the farthest part of the circle they show the upper "face" of their bodies and wings but only for a fraction of the time. In all the rest of the circle they look darker because they show the rest of their body, that has a darker colour than the upper "face".

My theory is that because of the lighter colour and lack of quality of the video the birds disappear when flying in front of a light area and "almost" disappear when flying with the lighter "face" towards the observer and flying in front of the blue of the sky, a light colour but of a different hue.


PS: now I am going to sleep, here in Portugal is allready 0:24.

Originally posted by Allred5923

At first, they weren't sure what to make of it, but as they realized that their earlier notion's was based on the for mentioned "Preception" theory, they admitted that there is no way that the thing's at that height and distance would even show up if they were bird's of any species.

Allred5923,

You see that is the whole fallacy right there. Nothing is at 11,500 feet except for the Shuttle. I've already shown around page 20 that the clouds can be seen from the Shuttle Cam very low and near the KSC Visitor Center.

This post here...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

And here in this post you can see from another angle the Birds just after the Shuttle Launched and well below 11,500 ft.

Also several other pics on the link that also show Turkey Vultures.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by Allred5923
He did pick on you a little bit about it being a "PUTtfile" (SP?)

I uploaded the video to PutFile, because it is the only place on the internet that people can post videos 25mb in size for FREE. It is well known for hosting videos for ZERO cost.

Also.. those pictures that show something that may be clouds next to the visitor center show NOTHING. The clouds in question are behind, and under the shuttle out of view, on those camera shots that were taken from the shuttle itself.

Also the video was NOT taken from the visitor center..



[edit on 13-6-2006 by LAES YVAN]

I don't deny that there are bird's flying in the vacinity of the take off platform, and I am absolutely sure those are bird's. The issue was hard for me to digest at first , because, the first thing that you see during take off is birds flying around. I didn't just jump to my conclusion of what I was seeing when I first came acrosed this thread. I watched it over and over again and again. But as I was watching it , and after everything that was being posted, I really started scrutinizing what I was "Really" seeing. The point of the fact is that everyone putting up the argument of what the thing's around the plume were and the disagreement of where and how far they were flying form the initial camera position. Everyone seem's to think that I preceivec the objects of discussion disappearing, so I asked some of my more knowledgable friends, that deal with cameras and the such everyday, if I could be doing exactly what all, or most of the post's claimed I was doing,"Seeing an optical illusion?" and I wante dthe opinion of someone first hand that I knew and trusted, even they came up with the conclusion that the objects don't disappear, but fade as they penitrate the plume, fade. And then reappear the same way. I can take a picture of my kid's and know it's my kid's, but on the analizing of this picture , I couldn't trust really, at first, what I was seeing. I tend to be very skeptical and do not easly choose sides, like I said in my post before, "I see what I see." that is all I can say. And with the help of my Filmography friend's , and my personal opinion, "We just have different point's of view's and different opinion's on this topic of discussion".

Thanks for posting the sight's you offered earlier in this thread, and I looked at them on several occassion's, and they are very good point's of view, but they are not what I see in the initial posted thread film.

LAES YVAN,, I am going to quit arguing the point's of opinion and realize this is going nowhere very slowly, if by chance you get any more information about this video that concimates it, I would really like to hear about, U2U me and we will go from there ..........

As for the rest of you all, Have a good one and remember ,"DENY IGNORANCE".

LAES YVAN

Don't take that remark about the "Putfile" thing to seriously. My friend was just joking and I explained how your film came about, he pretty much put thing's together for the reason from there on his own, he understands the film and editing thing better than I do, but once I told him of where the video came from and how it got here, he totally understood....

See ya in the threads a posten!!!!!!

I found these sites disturbing.
www.freep.com.../20060609/NEWS07/606090445/1009
www.usatoday.com...
articles.news.aol.com...
bigblog.com...

These were even more disturbing.
www.aero-news.net...
blogs.orlandosentinel.com...
www.cbsnews.com...
www.nzherald.co.nz...
It appears there is a huge vulture conspiracy to halt the NASA program.

Originally posted by Allred5923
I have showed your footage to a few friends of mine that work with cameras, both digital and movie, and they are in accordance that there is something to your little clip of the space shuttle. At first, they weren't sure what to make of it, but as they realized that their earlier notion's was based on the for mentioned "Preception" theory, they admitted that there is no way that the thing's at that height and distance would even show up if they were bird's of any species.

And this comment proves exactly what?
That you have shown it to 'friends'?.....why is that relevant at all. They have an opinion they should post here, not have you vouch for them.
Does the argument that many of us are making that these are, infact, birds gain validity if i say that I have shown it to 100 of my friends today and each one has said 'hmmm they are birds'? Not at all.

One thing from the posts by Laes that I have noticed is his use of the words 'Clearly' and 'No Doubt'(often capitalized showing a huge sense of exasperation that you get from all his words, not just the Capitalized ones, that most of us have seen the truth in this case) when there is 20 pages of people proving that his 'No Doubt' and 'Clearly' claims are incorrect, for if they were indeed this, then we wouldn't have been going for so long.

I can't remember who said it, but 5 or 6(maybe more) pages ago, one of the supporters of these objects being UFO's in the Technological sense, changed their view as they saw the wing movement, and their argument changed to 'Giant Birds' or something as they still didn't give way on the perception thing.

On the previous page, i think it was Obsidian(not sure) gave the basics of Photography that help clarify WHY this is not mysterious objects but infact Birds, yet no one on the 'other team' has mentioned that post once.

Personally, I don't understand how anyone can see anything other than Birds in that clip. Its so obvious, I would recommmend that you don't zoom in as much, if you have the Vid on reg setting you can see that the Birds are flying a perfectly regular pattern.

See, you come across as intelligent people, yet you are so desperate for a 'Conspiracy', you are seeing BigFoot when its a man in a suit. I'm sorry, but why is it so harder to believe that Birds, in am area where there is a high concentration of high-flying relatively large birds, is a more difficult concept to accept than Government(friend or foe) and/or Alien Intelligence creating a craft(3) letting them fly around the contrail of a Shuttle on a televised mission take off when no one at the scene seemed to notice and tere was no news reagrding it?

See, I believe in the existence of Extraterrestrials, i believe that Governments also use specified areas to try out new machinery that the public don't know about, but I also believe that sometimes the obvious answer is the correct one because it is obvious...in this case the obvious one being Birds.

longhaircowboy there is no doubt in anyone minds that birds are a threat to the shuttle launch.. if you even took the time to read this thread you would know I HAVE ALREADY SAID THAT, AND POSTED PICTURES OF THAT. So please stop posting your worthless links.

This whole thread is about the objects flying in the sky on my video.. you either discuss them, or you shut up. GET IT? Discuss the video, or shut up.

Just because there are other birds flying the area, and there are documented facts of birds being on the launch site, does NOT PROVE, that the objects flying on my video at 11,500 feet are birds.

Simply coming to the conclusion that they are birds because there are others around the area would simply be the most moronic way to go about debunking anything, because it would mean you are close minded.


Here is an example of longhaircowboys way of debunking...


Well, the picture says Skittles, and there is a pile of Skittles all around it. My conclusion is, they are ALL SKITTLES.

That conclusion is wrong, there is an MnM in there.


****BY THE WAY.. VULTURES AVERAGE FLIGHT ALTITUDE IS 162 METERS +/- 92 METERS. THAT IS AROUND 800 FEET. THE OBJECTS ON THE VIDEO ARE WELL ABOVE 800 FEET****

[edit on 13-6-2006 by LAES YVAN]

Originally posted by LAES YVAN

This whole thread is about the objects flying in the sky on my video.. you either discuss them, or you shut up. GET IT? Discuss the video, or shut up.

Just because there are other birds flying the area, and there are documented facts of birds being on the launch site, does NOT PROVE, that the objects flying on my video at 11,500 feet are birds.

Actually you brought up a situation , not a Video. We are absolutely free to discuss the situation you Posted UFOs on Video during a Shuttle launch.

So that being the case here we are all free to discuss the issue rationally as we see fit.

That being said...

I can show with Photographic evidence at hand that the Turkey Vultures were in the shot during the entire launch sequence and in the line of sight of the Camera that shot the Video that sparked this discussion.

Please note this image and the points of reference I've pointed out.





Now with this picture we can see that in the Area of Interest the Birds were clearly there even though this did not show up on the other Video at the time. This Picture was taken approx. 10 -11 Seconds after launch.



And that places the Cloud and the Birds Lower than 11,500 feet and it also places the Birds in the Videos Line of Sight during the time in question.

Originally posted by LAES YVAN
longhaircowboy there is no doubt in anyone minds that birds are a threat to the shuttle launch.. if you even took the time to read this thread you would know I HAVE ALREADY FRIKKEN SAID THAT, AND POSTED PICTURES OF THAT. So please stop posting your worthless links.

This whole thread is about the objects flying in the sky on my video.. you either discuss them, or you shut up. GET IT? Discuss the video, or shut up.

Just because there are other birds flying the area, and there are documented facts of birds being on the launch site, does NOT PROVE, that the objects flying on my video at 11,500 feet are birds.

Simply coming to the conclusion that they are birds because there are others around the area would simply be the most moronic way to go about debunking anything, because it would mean you are close minded.


Here is an example of longhaircowboys way of debunking...

Well, the picture says Skittles, and there is a pile of Skittles all around it. My conclusion is, they are ALL SKITTLES.

That conclusion is wrong, there is an MnM in there.

[edit on 13-6-2006 by LAES YVAN]

See, if this isnt an attack on another poster who has remained level headed through-out then I really don't know what is.

Your argument regarding the Skittles/MnM is flawed because for you to know there is an MnM there, you must have been told, and the MnM looks distincly different to the Skittles. Had you not been aware of the difference, had you not looked for it, you would possibly have missed it.

The Video however, that is different.
We know FOR A FACT, that Large Birds live in that area.
We know FOR A FACT, that these Birds also fly around due to the take off.
We know FOR A FACT, that varying degrees of thermal pockets rise which attract these birds.
Without the Video its a sane conclusion to believe they are indeed birds, BUT in the video, myself and others have noted wing movement which indicates Birds.

So, you see if you have all those together Birds is a rational conclusion, not brought on because you are told that.

How can you prove those specs are vultures? You cant, you are going on the assumption those dots are vultures and you have no proof they are.. If anything that picture only proves there are 3 ufo above 6000 feet during the time of the launch. If those are birds, they are pretty damn far away behind the launch now arnt they.. They would be MUCH bigger if they were birds in front of the shuttle like you claim.. Also that picture is NOT EVEN close to the place where the objects in my video appear..


BTW is wasnt an attack. I was simply saying, to stop bringing up that fact that birds are always in the area.. WE ALREADY KNOW THAT. I have stated many times that birds are always in the area, so you can stop posting that information.. it is useless.


[edit on 13-6-2006 by LAES YVAN]