U.S. troops force Iraqis out of Ramadi

Fear of an imminent offensive by the U.S. occupation forces in Ramadi forced Iraqi families to evacuate the city, to avoid “a mounting humanitarian crisis,” similar to that which took place in the Iraqi city of Fallujah in November 2004.

Troops started Saturday pounding their way through Ramadi, residents said.

U.S. occupying army, assisted by Iraqi forces rounded Ramadi from all sides, including the Euphrates River and the Warrar irrigation canal and asked residents to immediately evacuate the city, Iraqi officials said, adding that American forces used airstrikes on several residential areas, and loudspeakers to warn civilians leave in order to avoid a massive offensive.

More at source

A city of 400,000 that has been without electricity, or water is now being emptied by the occupational forces. Memories of Falujah inciting mass panic. Are they getting ready to bomb the crap out of the place? Does anyone really think this will make us friends?

When the only source is Aljazerra, I tend to question the accuracy of the report.

So far, I have not found any other source reporting this.

Of, yes. It is MUCH better to keep the civvies there durign a major offensive, between the shelling and gunfire, they'll be FINE!

You may not agree with it, but as far as urban fighting goes, this makes sense. Whatever your views on the war, at least there's an effort to avoid civvie casualties.

DE

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
When the only source is Aljazerra, I tend to question the accuracy of the report.

So far, I have not found any other source reporting this.

Fearful citizens flee from Ramadi

US occupation forces preparing military offensive against Ramadi

Or you could just search Ramadi at Google News and find plenty more....

America deserves a nuclear bomb attack on one of it's cities..they think it's ok to go on the other side of the world and destroy cities and musrder thousands and rape their natural resouces..I think it's OK to go ahead and nuke an American city, it would kill about 100,000 , the US hava murdered more that 200,000 in Iraq already.

jajabinks
America deserves ALOT..

where do you begin?
The oil profiteers
the corporations
the war mongerers.

the list goes on and on and on
but the problem is,

America dictates to a large extent HOW the world perceives what goes on.
Its not a conspiracy, its not a hidden agender.
Simply, When the US says something from there media, from there politicians..
The world carbon copies it around the globe.

sept11 is a perfect example.

So when America illegially invades and occupies another country,
regardless that the rules were brocken, the reason for war being UNJUSTIFIED and so many collosal lies and coverups coming out, america says its a war to spread freedom and democracy.. then good luck saying otherwise.

like wise,

when america is attacked, its not payback for everything horrible they have done in different corners of the globe,
its because these damn followers of radical islam want to take over the world and kill the freedom loving americans.

I mean far out.
If my entire family was murdered in a missle strike from an american war jet,
i watched my friends being killed in bombings,
my school being shot up, my country being rampaged and my life being turned up side down,

yeah.. first thing I think of is that damn free america with all there rights and liberties.
Im not angry about everything i had in my life being WRONGFULLY taken away, id rather try to remove freedom around the world.

uh huh!

Originally posted by jajabinks
America deserves a nuclear bomb attack on one of it's cities..they think it's ok to go on the other side of the world and destroy cities and musrder thousands and rape their natural resouces..I think it's OK to go ahead and nuke an American city, it would kill about 100,000 , the US hava murdered more that 200,000 in Iraq already.

I think, if this happened it would be the greatest event for mankind.
Not because of the poor innocent people that have died, innocent people dying is horrible and wrong no matter WHAT government deems it to be justified.

But it would bring about a major doctrinal shift for every country in the world.
Economies would crumble, jobs would cease and ultimately nations would go to war.

But when tis finished, when we've removed the hostility, the anger..
we would of come to terms that people on the planet earth shouldnt be dividied into different countries/religions.

we should be united under the same sign,
planet earth.

we should work together to stop famine, pollution, facism, racism, radicals , and yes... RELIGION!

because isnt this ultimately nothing but a religous war we are at the begining off?
had these men not been muslims, would they of supposidly slammed the planes into the buildings?

I say, nuke a god damn city.
lets get this thing happening,
the quicker it happens the quicker it finishes.

Economies are struggling,
people are finding it harder to work, and pay bills.
lifes becoming to damn hard to enjoy the bliss of childeren and marriage, without bills, mortgages, fuel, food, work, wages, tax, rah rah rah

WE NEED WAR!

Originally posted by jajabinks
America deserves a nuclear bomb attack on one of it's cities..they think it's ok to go on the other side of the world and destroy cities and musrder thousands and rape their natural resouces..I think it's OK to go ahead and nuke an American city, it would kill about 100,000 , the US hava murdered more that 200,000 in Iraq already.

I think you deserve to have a nuclear bomb dropped on you....or perhaps planes flown into buildings that kills your friends and family.

spin it anyway you like, they ( radical islam) started this war....and we are going to finish it.

perhaps the 200k deaths will chastise them a bit eh?

they started this...not us...they started it by 9/11. Now all their people will suffer...if only they took that extra initiative to make sure some idiot like OBL didnt sit in a cave and want to play soldier boy huh?

no terrorist with half a brain would dare attempt a nuclear attack on US soil....you think what is happening is bad now? wait until that happened....the middle east would be a glass bowl.

c'mon xfilesman

If the us got hit by a nuclear weapon inside a city,
they wouldnt totally VAPORIZE the middleast.

USE YOUR HEAD SON!
THEY.....

Its funny looking at both sides in this story, its like two immature school boys.

You did something to me, so im going to hit you.
You did something to me, because I did something to you, so im going to hit you back.

ROUND AND ROUND AND ROUND AND ROUND.

They think YOU started it when you steal from arab lands, when you help israel, yadda yadda yadda.
You think they STARTED it because they found a way INTO your country and attacked you.

Obviously both sides are passionate about there causes.
Is it really a good idea to see who's going to BLINK first ?
in a way, isnt the american stance really poking them to do something major?

'' hey look, we invaded one of your most sacred countries... totally murdered thousands of innocent men women and childeren, removed your PRO arab government, have begun construction of the largest military base IN THE WORLD.. ''

if you attack us, in revenge for our NOBEL, HONEST and HUMANE steps, we will take this as an attack on us..

How dare you attack us when we have occupied your country.

Ok for starters.

1. A nuke on a US city would kill MILLIONS... not 100,000.

2. US troops have not killed 100,000 Iraqi's. The official count is around 40,000 and even if 100,000 civillian deaths was true... I bet over 70% would be a result of the insurgents.

And a nuke attack wouldn't be the greatest thing for mankind... it would end mankind. Those who survive the initial blasts die of radiation poisoning. Because the second the USA gets nuked - it launches its own nukes and starts nuclear war. No one survives.

xphiles, agit.....you guys are loons. Use your head.

[edit on 12-6-2006 by d1k]

Hello everyone, I would like to put down my thoughts on the matter discussed in this thread.

First I would like to address, this new US offensive against the militants in city of Ramadi.

I think the fact that the US is warning to civilian population to vacate the city to be a good thing. Houses can be rebuilt, but the dead can not be brought back to life.
However, such a for-warning of an initiation of an offensive will also give the militants time to vacate the city too. They know they don’t stand a chance in a conventional armed confrontation against the superior weaponry and training of US and Iraqi forces, so the logical thing for them to do would be to leave Ramadi and continue their operations somewhere else, at least for the duration of the upcoming offensive.

US forces did the same thing during the Vietnam War, giving the Viet Cong and NVA ample time to vacate an area. So the for-warning is a double edged sword.
If they don’t give the civilian population time to flee the city the US forces will be accused of not caring about the population of the city. If they do warn them in advance, they will probably not accomplish what they set out to do; namely to kill the pockets of militants based there.

I do not believe that a new offensive, that will possibly damage and destroy a considerable part of the city, will help the US forces win the heart and minds of the Iraqi people. I think they are making a big mistake in doing this.


As for the comment about a US city deserving to be hit by a nuclear device, I will say that no populated area deserves this. If you have a grievance against the current US administration you should direct your anger against them, not the civilian population of a city.
To die or suffer due to radiation poisoning is one of the most painful afflictions a person can experience. Just look at what the people of Hiroshima, Nagasaki and Pripjat/Chernobyl had to endure; horrible burns and radiation poisoning.
Any city struck by a nuclear device would be laid waste, and would not be inhabitable again for a long time, particularly if the nuclear detonation was done above the city (airburst) as this causes more radiation and heat to spread than a ground burst will.

People tend to under estimate what nuclear radiation actually does to people and that is in my opinion very unfortunate.

Originally posted by Malichai

Fear of an imminent offensive by the U.S. occupation forces in Ramadi forced Are they getting ready to bomb the crap out of the place? Does anyone really think this will make us friends?

Who cares about making friends. If the town has been permitting insurgents to stay in it, then they deserve to 'get the crap bombed out of them'. Supporting and sheltering the eney in wartime makes you.....the enemy.

Originally posted by Malichai

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
When the only source is Aljazerra, I tend to question the accuracy of the report.

So far, I have not found any other source reporting this.

Fearful citizens flee from Ramadi

US occupation forces preparing military offensive against Ramadi

Or you could just search Ramadi at Google News and find plenty more....

Niether source says they are being forced out. Thats the key.

Force out would be Aljazeera's spin. Asked to leave would be the pnetagon spin.

The truth is somewhere inbetween.

Originally posted by jajabinks
America deserves a nuclear bomb attack on one of it's cities

Thousands of american civilians deserve to die in an attack becuase....americans are attacking people that support those attacking them???

and rape their natural resouces

Human beings deserve to die because they make rapacious use of oil and mineral resources????

You think they STARTED it because they found a way INTO your country and attacked you.

Who cares who started it?? The US was attacked, the enemies justification for it is irrelevant. Because of that attack, afghanistan, iraq, falluja, ramadi, baghdad, and all the rest, are now being attacked. Any nation or organization stupid enough to actually use nukes against the US, even if they used it on the US Army in Iraq, would get the response of full scale nuclear retaliation. We wouldn't hestitate for a moment to nuke the capitals of each middle eastern nation that we even think is associated with terrorists. We'd drop this nice and kind war of bringing governmental reform, no matter how cyncial the motivations are, and establish a militarty state over their oilfields while periodically bombing any large collections of people outside of those military zones.

How dare you attack us when we have occupied your country.

How dare anyone complain about being occupied when we're the ones that have been attacked. Bin Ladin threw every country in the middle east up for forfeit when he attacked the US. The middle east is fortunate that the US isn't the power made global dictators of rhetoric.

dk1
you guys are loons. Use your head.

How about you use your head and not directly insult a fellow poster? How about you use your head and attempt to address xphiles comments using reason, rather than a silly one line insult??

Hoff
I think the fact that the US is warning to civilian population to vacate the city to be a good thing.

The evacuations are all part of a psyop programme anyways. They'll drop leaflets on a city, telling them there'll be an attack, and then not attack. Then, they'll attack much later. Or they'll attack the next city. Its all part of an attempt to keep the insurgency completely off balance and the public too weak to resist.

Nygdan, thank you for providing perfect example of the kind of thought process that is leading us to failure in Iraq.

Who cares about making friends.

Anyone who wants victory? After all what else constitutes victory in an occupation, but the support and cooperation of the local population?

If the town has been permitting insurgents to stay in it, then they deserve to 'get the crap bombed out of them'.

What makes you think these people have much of a choice? The insurgents say "copperate with the coalition and get your throats cut", the US says "cooperate with the insurgents and you get bombed".

Supporting and sheltering the eney in wartime makes you.....the enemy.

No doubt precisely the logic that drives the insurgency to target civilians who cooperate with US forces.






[edit on 6/12/06 by xmotex]

Originally posted by xmotex
Nygdan, thank you for providing perfect example of the kind of thought process that is leading us to failure in Iraq.

The only situation in which the US can loose in Iraq is if the US leave prematurely.

So the "crazy go git 'im" is the necessary attitude, especially for the civilians in the US.

The wrong attitude to have in the middle of a war is, "this isn't worth it". THe time to say 'this isn't worth it' is before going to war, not in the middle of it.

Anyone who wants victory? After all what else constitutes victory in an occupation, but the support and cooperation of the local population?

The end goal here is not to have Iraqis cheering us in the streets. Iraq can hate us eternally, who cares.

The end goal here is a quasi-democratic government in Iraq that is able to round up and execute any jihdas that pop up.

If the town has been permitting insurgents to stay in it, then they deserve to 'get the crap bombed out of them'.

What makes you think these people have much of a choice?
Irrelevant.

No doubt precisely the logic that drives the insurgency to target civilians who cooperate with US forces.

Irrelevant.

From LA Times on T r u t h O u t

Fears of an imminent offensive by the U.S. troops massed around the insurgent stronghold of Ramadi intensified Saturday, with residents pouring out of the city to escape what they describe as a mounting humanitarian crisis.

The image pieced together from interviews with tribal leaders and fleeing families in recent weeks is one of a desperate population of 400,000 people trapped in the crossfire between insurgents and U.S. forces. Food and medical supplies are running low, prices for gas have soared because of shortages and municipal services have ground to a stop.

U.S. and Iraqi forces had cordoned off the city by Saturday, residents and Iraqi officials said. Airstrikes on several residential areas picked up, and troops took to the streets with loudspeakers to warn civilians of a fierce impending attack, Ramadi police Capt. Tahseen Dulaimi said.

U.S. military officials refused to confirm or deny reports that a Ramadi offensive was underway.

"The situation is catastrophic. No services, no electricity, no water," said Sheik Fassal Gaood, the former governor of Al Anbar province, whose capital is Ramadi.

"People in Ramadi are caught between two plagues: the vicious, armed insurgents and the American and Iraqi troops."

Residents have been particularly unnerved by the recent arrival of 1,500 U.S. troops sent to reinforce the forces already stationed at the city. Street battles between troops and insurgents have been raging for months, but the troops' deployment left residents bracing for a mass offensive to take the town back from insurgents.

"It is becoming hell up there," said Mohammed Fahdawi, a 42-year-old contractor who packed up his four children and fled to Baghdad two weeks ago. "It is unbelievable: The Americans seem to have brought all of their troops to Ramadi."

Another Fallujah?

Originally posted by Souljah
Another Fallujah?

Probably, since most of American casualties are in and around the city of Ramadi, similar to Fallujah back in 2003-2004. Ramadi is only a few miles away from Fallujah, which makes you think.

The only situation in which the US can loose in Iraq is if the US leave prematurely.

Nonsense. In any sense that matters, it's already a loss.
We're approaching a time frame equivalent of US involvement in WW2 here (if fortunately nowhere near the bodycount), with exactly nothing whatsoever to show for it.

THe time to say 'this isn't worth it' is before going to war, not in the middle of it.

So, even if it plainly isn't worth it, we should pretend it is? Why?
To prop up the self esteem of the morons that supported it in the first place?

The end goal here is a quasi-democratic government in Iraq that is able to round up and execute any jihdas that pop up.

Which is going to happen exactly never, if the jihadis can count on more support than the government.

Irrelevant.

Of course, as is any datum that threatens your false certainty.

[edit on 6/12/06 by xmotex]