Paganism = New Age? How is that possible?

Just a quickie for you all. From what I've read and understand, polytheism, animism, and the worship of nature are far older than any organized religion. The relatively new religions of the world (Christianity and Islam for example) claim that people who worship in this way are sinners and blasphemors and so on.

Just wanted some thoughts on this. How can any organized religion be critical of ways of worship, that are 1000's of years older than their own? How can they call these people "New Age", when what these people believe in might be the foundation of their very own religions?

..murder came before Christianity, do you think this shouldn't be criticized either?

Because these religions demonised the old ways with their propeganda and want to make people believe that a return to them would be a bad thing.
It's all about power, if people turn away from Christianity and the rest then they have no power and no benefits that go with that power.
This is why I have Satan in my title, I am totally against them and would Love to see their demise, so I use their word for the adversary of God to describe myself.
Just so you know, I'm only against the people who see the "New Age" religions as Evil, and who go to church, helping those with the control keep control. Those who worship their god in their own way I'm not against, I don't think that you're doing anything relevant to the way the universe is, but you're not trying to demonise me, so yeah.
I'd word this diatribe better if I weren't feeling a little qoosy right now.

Originally posted by Tyriffic
..murder came before Christianity, do you think this shouldn't be criticized either?

Irrelevent argument, next.

originally posted by Tyriffic
..murder came before Christianity, do you think this shouldn't be criticized either?

and your point would be?????????

Originally posted by Tyriffic
..murder came before Christianity, do you think this shouldn't be criticized either?

Dumbest comparision & argument I've read for the month!!!

The relatively new religions of the world (Christianity and Islam for example) claim that people who worship in this way are sinners and blasphemors and so on.

Here is a question I pose: How can pagans or new agers be sinners or blasphemers if never exposed to Christ?

[Edited on 10-23-2003 by Cearbhall]

Originally posted by Cearbhall
Here is a question I pose: How can pagans or new agers be sinners or blasphemers if never exposed to Christ?

This too is somewhat irrelavent. Why??? Because those, even after exposed to Christ, who choose the religious path of a so called NEW AGE religion (wicca for my example) are no longer sinning in their religion. I was raised baptist, and am now wiccan. Is it a sin for me to be wiccan just because I was christian at one point???

Not in my eyes. I am just on a different spiritual path than before, and to me as a wiccan, wicca is not a sin.

So if they haven't been exposed to Chirst, they would be even less of a sinner than myself, but if I am not a sinner, they could not be either.


Hope that made sense.

The term New Age is erroneous as far as Pagan religions go, and many pagans I know refer to Christianity and Islam as "New Age" religions, because both religions are pretty new, compared to the old faiths.

Pagan religons served thier people well, and the old gods of thier faiths were dear to the peoples hearts, not for fear, but from utter awe and wonder. Thier gods were human like, with human follies, flaws, mistakes, ect. These gods predated any organized religion, as we know, and they are often refered to as the "old religions". Only to the christians, who erroneously believed they had wiped out all worship of the old gods, does this seem new. if they do examine thier own religions, they will find in many cases, the old gods were loved so much that even threat of death could not wipe them out, and thus, the old gods incorperated into the new religion.

Examples: \

St Bride of Kildare, a.k.a., Bridgit, celtic goddess of fire and poetry and blacksmiths

Easter: Eostore, Germanic goddess of fertility and spring, whose holiday was the spring equinox, she was so loved even her name could not be wiped out, nor her traditional symbols: her favorite pet rabbit that laid colored eggs for the children

Christmas: From the Winter Solstice to about the New year, this period of time has always been the time of sun gods and thier birth, the birth of kings and lords, of gods. The 25th of december was the birthday of Mithrias, a well loved Persian light god who was widely worshipped by Roman soldiers

St George: the patron saint of England was believed to be a man who was superimposed with Thor, or Thurs to the anglo saxons. Thor was the champion of the gods and slayer of the evil frost giants in Norse mythology, he was also a freind to the serf and commoner, the working man, he was brave, fearless, and ultimately, the protector of all that is good. these traits were combined to create a saint.

St Gertrude in Germany: Since she is associated with and came from Magdeburg, which was the main town for the worship of Freya, norse goddess of love and war, she is believed to be a more chaste and wholesome version.

So much in christianity, the people could not totally give up on the gods and faiths that thier ancestors held for so long, they were incoperated into the "New" religion.

those popular organized 'faiths' got hijacked by the religious elite....
just as a wheel turns, so too these pseudo-mystical
doorways to salvation, become passe and obsolete=

---> GOOGLE up: 'God Part Of Brain'

as one possible future avenue for religion... I perfer these doorways:

www.jamesarthur.yage.net...

or on alternate reality--> deoxy.org...

for additional links:
www.truthbeknown.com...

CAUTION// Does not contain violence, bloodshed, usury,
pennance,self flogging,water immersions or circumscisions,et al...

enjoy the journey
s/riff raff

[Edited on 23-10-2003 by riffraffalunas]

Damn Ty got the Quad Assault, for Quad Damage, if this was "QUAEK" it'd be over.


I think they call them "New Age" So people are like oh it's a new cult type thing.


New Age, Neo Pagans I've heard, but what is so different?

Other Religions just need something to other religions to make them sound inferior and wrong.

I still say Constantine was a Pagan til death.


Besides Religion should be a personal thing, not something you HAVE to accept.


Mankind loves to have control over eachother.

The term "New Age" is a Pagan term to indicate a new age of the spirituality that is practised. Christians demonize the Pagan religions because of an ignorance of the belief and rituals...much like the US government with the Islamic Religion.

Quote: "murder came before Christianity"

I have news for you - we have murder AFTER Christianity too - We still have plenty of Murder in the world!!! Did you know that most people in the MAFIA are Catholics?

You have to step into their POV for a minute- These book religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) don't recognize that there are older religions because the God created the Earth along with humans who naturally worshipped God before they turned to other things.
Use history to disprove that and all you will get are theological arguements and Genesis passages at best...

Also- the paganism of old and the paganism we have today are NOT the same thing. There is likely no strong enough connecting link between the two to ever really argue that effectively.
I'm just being honest. A vast majority of Pagans we have now are influenced by Wicca, which is for the most part something Gardner and his buddies came up with by themselves. There is no actual proof of the witch he met in a forest or whatever version of the story you heard.
It is most likely he got his practices from the societies he belonged to, which had beliefs based on their research of the past, not any likely actual link to it.
Yes, you can argue that there are forms of Strege or other witchcraft lines that may have existed for centuries, but rarely can anything be traced more than a few hundred years and even these groups are not the mainstream of Paganism as we know it today. (and especially not in the US)

So in reality, though we may be trying to attain older beliefs, the "new age movement" really is new age because it's realistically only been around noticably since the 19th century, which is where most of our real influences were formed.

The concepts of nature worship, polytheism and animism are older than all religion, but then again so would be the concept of a single god who controls all... so it is sort of a moot point. It doesn't hold much weight to say "my ways are older because some guy 4000 years ago had a belief that I think it seems might have been just like mine, so "



On the other hand, there is actual reason to believe that originally the Jewish people were polytheistic, but that doesn't go over well in most circles. It's even eluded to in parts of the OT.

Originally posted by nathraq
Just a quickie for you all. From what I've read and understand, polytheism, animism, and the worship of nature are far older than any organized religion. The relatively new religions of the world (Christianity and Islam for example) claim that people who worship in this way are sinners and blasphemors and so on.
Just wanted some thoughts on this. How can any organized religion be critical of ways of worship, that are 1000's of years older than their own? How can they call these people "New Age", when what these people believe in might be the foundation of their very own religions?

Ok how far back do you want to go??

Jesus said " before Abraham was I AM"

Jesus also mentioned the GLORY he had with the father (ie GOD) BEFORE THE WORLD WAS FORMED/MADE/CREATED!!!!!

So how far back do you want to go?? Sure go way way way back..trace it all the way back...but it still has to be on earth at some time. Jesus said directly that he was WITH GOD before the world was even MADE!

Originally posted by Seraphim_Serpente
Did you know that most people in the MAFIA are Catholics?

What evidence do you have to back up this statement? Oh, that's right, you've seen the Soprano's, so you know the religious affiliation of the majority of the Mafia.

Your argument is about as valid as the murder came before Christianity argument.

Well I just happen to Live in New York & I just Happen to formerly be Catholic & I just so Happen to run into GOONS all of the Time with Big Gold Crucifixes around thier Necks. You?

P.S. I don't talk out of my ***!

Originally posted by BlackOps13
What evidence do you have to back up this statement? Oh, that's right, you've seen the Soprano's, so you know the religious affiliation of the majority of the Mafia.

Your argument is about as valid as the murder came before Christianity argument.

Well, if and only if, by 'Mafia' they meant the traditional 'Italian Mob', which I suppose could be similar to The Soprano's as you mentioned. Then they would be correct in saying that they were mainly Catholic. The reason being is because of the Origin of the Powerful Crime Families that are refereed to as 'The Mob or Mafia' as it's used in the classic term, traced back to 'The Old Country' or 'Sicily', which actually was Very Catholic Based. However, that being a fact does not work in both directions equally. Because the Mafia was/is Catholic, does not mean Catholics are therefor Mafia. In the same way that, because the Mafia was Italian, doesn't mean Italians are therefor automatically linked to the Mob.

The Mafia of today I'm sure is much more diverse.

Originally posted by Seraphim_Serpente
Well I just happen to Live in New York & I just Happen to formerly be Catholic & I just so Happen to run into GOONS all of the Time with Big Gold Crucifixes around thier Necks. You?

P.S. I don't talk out of my ***!

I'm not willing to make assumptions in order to bash a whole group of people. Let's see what assumptions you make from your last post:

Every "goon" is in the mafia.
Everyone with a "big gold crucifix around their neck" is a Catholic.

Therefore, every goon with a big gold crucifix is a Catholic Mafia member.

That's great logic. You're a former Catholic, as you state, so for some reason you decided not to be Catholic anymore. That is fine, but don't use flawed reasoning and common stereotypes to bash Catholicism, or anything else for that matter.

Like I said earlier, your statement is about as relevevant as the murder before Christianity one......

I am Wiccan I am NOT a new ager! My mother was a witch and my Grandmother a type of Shaman/Witch, if you will...

The old joke is what is the difference between a New Ager and a Pagan? At least two decimal points. Meaning that a pagan will pay 1.00 and a New Ager will pay 100.00

Still, I defend the New Age and condemn it in the same breath. Hey, I am a Pisces so that is natural to me. The New Age has opened up the access route to paganism. And then we have the Age of Communication making it possible for me to say this in an arena where you are able to read it. So anyone can say anything on the Internet and not have to provide any kind of validation. How do you know I am what I say I am? Do you listen to that voice inside you? Good! Do that! Don't be sold some bill of goods just because you want so desperately to be a witch. Be a critical thinker, for God/dess' sake or you will be just a wannabe for the whole of your life.

Some people call themselves pagan, but with their manipulation, and/or rose-colored glasses outlook marks them as New Agers. Not to mention the lack of self-responsibility that marks them. "A demon made me do that." "An entity overpowered me on the Astral plane and made me do its bidding." Oh grow up. This kind of blaming placing is exactly what Wicca is NOT about. This also fully includes those of you who are whining all the time that so-and-so has cast an evil spell. Take responsibility for yourself and your own actions. Be brave enough to admit when you screw up.

Many New Agers stop at the "let's surround everything with white light and love so we can make it all better" attitude. I find this a very simple and childlike (note: not childish) outlook that is not workable at all in the real world. Those pagans who also adopt this one-note approach are not seeing the whole picture.

Wicca is an Earth-based, nature centered religion drawing on the ideas of pantheism, gnosticism, ceremonial magic, and the remnents of pagan religions.

Although the words "Wicca" and "Witchcraft" are often used interchangeably, they are not the same thing. Wicca is a modern revivial of the old, Pagan religions, using magic, nature and a female Deity along with Her Consort, the Horned Lord, as its central core.

The term Witchcraft literally means the craft of the wise. In its original usage, witchcraft was practiced by those persons, more often than not female, who had knowledge of herbal lore, the law, psychology and physiology.

It is important to note that not all Wiccans consider themselves witches, and not all witches are Wiccans. The difference between Witchcraft and Wicca is, for many, a confusing line. The two are best differentiated by the idea of religion vs. practice.

Wicca is a religion which involves communion with the Earth, communion with a God/Goddess (or several of them if you're a polytheist), living in peace with yourself and others, and giving to those that gave to you. Witchcraft, however, is something that some Wiccans practice.

Witchcraft is the art of magic, the art of energy manipulation, the art of altered states of consciousness. A Witch is anyone who practices magic, including Wiccans as well as those of other faiths. This is not a religion in and of itself. Witchcraft may be practiced in many different forms, and admittedly, not all of them are positive. Satanist practices come to mind as an example of negative magic.

A Witch as defined in the Wiccan religion is someone who has studied very hard, committed the Pagan ways to memory, and has given his/her life over to the Goddess for protection and guidance. The term Witch within Wicca is a high title--just because you are Wiccan does not make you a Witch (in the same sense that being a Christian does not make you a priest). Being a Witch also does not make you a Wiccan (anymore than it would make you a Catholic, a Jew, or a Hindu).

Witches and Wiccans are entirely different people, being one does not make you the other. If you look at a Witch as being a Doctor of sorts the analogy becomes easy. Pick ten Doctors from your phone book. If you called and asked - you may find 4 Catholics, 3 Protestants, a Buddhist, a Hindu, and a Wiccan. If there was a listing for Witches in the same book the result would be no different. It IS true that the vast majority of Witches happen to be Wiccan, but you don't have to be one in order to be the other.