Will we get fully space-born before the Sun goes Red Giant?

Originally posted by Legalizer
If planets have not escaped the orbit of the sun in billions of years what makes you all think humans can?

We have already created ships which escaped the power of the suns gravity many times. The Voyager probe for example is never comming back to this system.

Its not that hard to do we can do it with 1960s tech.

The real question is, can we break the speed of light barrier in that much time, or have completely self-sustaining floating space stations that can be hurled beyond the sun's reach in that time.

IF the light barrier cannot be broken, then man, just like individual men, is doomed to death.

Of course, in 5 billion years, the desecendants of man might be even resemble modern man in the slightest.

I recall that there is an idea out there that each world is set up so as to have the necessary resources to permit interstellar travel, BUT, in such a way that only benevolent nations can do it. So that, we need, for example, ALL the uranium on the planet, to build a star-travel device, but, if we use a lot of it up in nuke weapons, we'll never have enough to 'breakthrough', ever.

Originally posted by Nygdan
The real question is, can we break the speed of light barrier in that much time, or have completely self-sustaining floating space stations that can be hurled beyond the sun's reach in that time.

IF the light barrier cannot be broken, then man, just like individual men, is doomed to death.

That has not to be the case.

As you mentioned "completely self-sustaining floating space stations" massive self sustained (colony ships) as I like to call them we could spread into the universe at a fraction of light speed but it would have to be the great, great, great etc. ancestors of the people that blasted off that arrived at new star systems. Once they got to new system they would build up population, infrastructure a new ship and spread out to another system.

Most of the Milkway galaxy could be colonized this way in about 50 million years never getting close to Light speed. That might sound like a insane amount of time and for humans it is but if we have a few billions years to work with its really a short peroid of time and no laws make that a impossibel feat.

If we could push close to light speed say 80-90% light speed which no law says is impossible then Time dialation effects would also allow us to spread out very deep into the universe. A trip across the Milkway that would take 100,000 years going LS could be made is a few weeks (ship time) for its crew if you going close to light speed because time slows the faster you go, of course 100,000 years would pass for everyone eles but thats little matter for a crew heading to a new part of the galaxy with no plans to return.

If you pushed it far enough say 99.999% LS you could in theory cover the known universe in as little as 27 years ship time while billions of years passed for everyone eles.

Yep Of Course

Assuming Humans dont destroy themselves (always a possibility) if we as a race can survive long enough to colinise 2-3 seperate planets (which i think will be within 500-1000 years at most) then the human race will survive indefinatly (assuming we dont destroy ourselves no single event could destroy our race and anything that could would be known about within plenty of time)

now as technology is exponentially increasing, things can get very advanced VERY fast, take a single number system

1,2,4,8,16,32,64,128,256,512,1024,2048,4096,8192,16384,32768,65536,131072

in just 18 "steps" its increased by a factor of 131,072............similar things are happning with real technology and usually faster! look how far we have come in the last 100 years compared to the last 1000 years.

exponential technology seems simple enough, but think of it this way, if the current "world speed record for humans" increases the same rate as it has the last 100yrs's, then we will reach 0.9c (enough to travel around our galaxy at a rate which makes it worthwhile) in just 850odd years, and 0.1c in about 300years, of course it could very well be faster than that!

Originally posted by ed 209

Will the Andromeda galaxy have collided with us by then anyway?

What you just said there is the ultimate question. To get out of this galaxy and enter another in time is the true challenge, probably an impossible task to solve. To bad we had to evolve in a galaxy that is destined to collide with another. We got work to do!

For the sake of all that is holy I hope that humans do NOT colonize any other planet or infect other solar systems with their presence.

If all else fails, we could always start to welcome ET's and UFO's.

So that when the time becomes necessary we could hitch a ride with them, to get outta Dodge!

Seriously though, if we are still alive by that time (humans that is, not you or me) I think we would be much more technologically advanced then we are right now. So why not??

Simulation of what our galaxy and the Andromeda galaxy will go through in a bout 3 billion years. They will literally rip each other apart and later merge.

Andromeda is seen coming in from above...

www.cita.utoronto.ca...

What looks like smoke is actually billions of star systems being flung away.

[edit on 11-7-2006 by Raabjorn]

[edit on 11-7-2006 by Raabjorn]

From what I have studied, scientists theorize that we have between 500 million and 2 Billion years before the Suns gets too hot and life on this planet will cease to exist. Now, we should expect this to be the LONGEST that we could possibly survive on this planet. this is excluding some other force be it either space based or earth based for cutting the time short.

Yes, we could send a man to the moon before, but even NASA will tell you that they are unable to send a man to the moon today. There is much much research that would need to be done. Basically with all the out of date information, they would almost have to start over from scratch. Also, peoples main motivations sadly enough is money. Without the budget, nothing will get done any time soon.
Here is an interview that we had on ID a while ago and a NASA specialists even says that without the budget, expect things to go slowly.

www.ignorancedenied.com...
16. We had a conversation on IgnoranceDenied a little while back about whether it was possible for NASA to send a man to the moon in a relatively short time. There were many good examples brought up about
the budgetary restraints on NASA set at a sad rate of around .2% gdp when back in the 60`s it was .8% and the fact the the technology is now outdated. We came to the conclusion that it would not be possible to send a man to the moon relatively soon. Would you consider this to be so?

What does "relatively soon" mean? And what kind of budget should we expect to be available for this purpose? The current NASA vision calls for a return to the Moon within the next 15 years, but this plan assumes only modest increases in the NASA budget -- far less than the spending levels associated with Apollo program in the 1960s.

So, I think that without some pulling together, yes we will continue to advace, but not at a great level. If people and countries could pull together and work unhindered with each other, mankind could make wonderful strides in very short times. But, with the way things are now, I think we will be lucky to get humans on another planet within 500 years. To get full colonies, we would have to develop some powerful drives and ships would have to be able to sustain life until they could FIND a habitable planet. If we cannot send a small craft with 1 human to the moon within 10 years, then how long do you think that it will take to design and build a ship that is large enough to allow propogation and sustination of the species for maybe many hundreds or even thousands of years before we found a livable planet. We would probably have to have a ship capable of supporting at least 50K people and then allow for growth of the species as well. How do we even start to build the ideas of how to tell a planets livability? In searching for a planet that could sustain us, we would have to account for many many things that would harm the frail human body. Also, what is we had to check 5K+ planets before one was found to sustain life? There would have to be many many things accounted for.

Here on ID, we had a pretty good debate on should we spend the money to explore space or should we keep it for bettering the planet. www.ignorancedenied.com...
But, it does hit on may points brought up here.

I know that the sun will give us at least 500 million years, but can we even guess what will hit us in 500 years? We need to start preparing now, as emptying a full planet is not an over night jon or even probably a 200 year job!

So, in short, yes, I think we will be space borne by the time the sun gets too hot... but I doubt we have that long.



[edit on 11-7-2006 by JCMinJapan]

Given the Environmental problems we have caused within the past 100 years and the diplomatic, social, military, economic chaos that currently exists around our planet, it is extremely doubtful that mankind will make it through the next 100 years. The human species may survive in one form or another, but probably not in one we would be willing to accept today.

I suspect we will be as much machine as man within 100 years. Most, if not all other higher animal species will probably be extinct by then as well. Heck even the plants & trees we are used to will probably be mostly gone or be barely recognizable by the humans of today.

If we can make it through the next 100 years then I think there may be hope for our long range survival. To make it the human species will have to work together and cooperate for the common good of humanity and the planet, not just for the benefit of one country or another. That's a pretty tall order considering that we haven't been able to do it before--ever. Further, I find it difficult to think of humans setting plans in motion that will not be realized during their lifetimes--most people can't even plan beyond about 18 months into the future.

Seems to me we have a hell of a lot of growing up to do in an ever increasingly hostile world and not much time to do it in. Personally I hope we make it, but I have to face the possibility that humankinds tenure on Earth may end one hell of a lot sooner than any of us suspect.

[edit on 11-7-2006 by Astronomer70]

Originally posted by Nygdan
I recall that there is an idea out there that each world is set up so as to have the necessary resources to permit interstellar travel, BUT, in such a way that only benevolent nations can do it. So that, we need, for example, ALL the uranium on the planet, to build a star-travel device, but, if we use a lot of it up in nuke weapons, we'll never have enough to 'breakthrough', ever.

Thats a scary thought... never heard that one before. I hope there is a little leeway in that "ALL the uranium" notion, otherwise were doomed already

Originally posted by SevenThunders
Over the last few millenia we have regressed technologically more than once, and at least once it was due to a cataclysmic war. I predict total global nuclear war long before we ever get into space in any meaningful way.

How about a 200 millon dollar space port in New Mexico and passenger flights as early as 2008? I call that meaningful!

Virgin Galactic

Even now I do not think the U.S could go back to the moon.

Bush Plans Moon Base by 2020

Moreover due to political correctness the modern crop of engineers cant calculate their way out of a paper bag.

Watch Modern Marvels on the History Channel... then talk to me about modern engineers!

... we are essentially bankrupt financially

Where did you get this from? All we have to do is make the price of Gold go up to oh say $1000.00 an ounce... then sell off Fort Knox reserves... wipe out deficit... lots of spare cash. We did it before...and I do believe Gold is climbing right now? Over simplified I know, but we are hardly broke!

Even worse there are agencies and corporations actively suppressing technology to maintain their own monopolies.

Seeking to control the tech, maybe, for profit. But there are many private agencies and corporations working on space projects. Hell even the Russians are selling tourist rides... $20 million a pop for ten days... talk about capitalism They just booked their 4th passenger

Greg Olsen

And This


Maybe a little less time spent in here and watch the daily news. Never know what you might learn

[edit on 11-7-2006 by zorgon]

Originally posted by laiguana
For the sake of all that is holy I hope that humans do NOT colonize any other planet or infect other solar systems with their presence.

Oh come on now, we're not all bad. Just make sure the politians stay behind

What are you people worrying about anyway?? 3 Billion years?? We Homo Sapiens don't even exist for 1 million. Don't forget that 3 billion years ago our ancestors were single celled organism, which don't exactly look close to what we are now, but are similar to our bacteria.

At this moment we can't even begin to comprehend what sort of lifeforms there will be around that time, but I can guarantee you that it won't even resemble something that was once human. 3 billion years is too far away for us as a species, so there's nothing.. Nothing to worry about.

Even if it happens in the next 100 years it shouldn't really matter to any of us, we'll all be dead!

What about our posterior you may ask?

Well let's pray that they're more smarter than us and figure out a way to save themselves without fighting and killing each other.

Just my thoughts on the matter!

Well, there is a part of me that really doesnt care, because I wont be there!, but hopefully our descendants will figure something out, and asfor human kind, we will be so reliant of technology that this will probably will be a breeze for them!

I immagine we'll find a way to survive. Hundreds of years ago there were at least a few scholars who had primitive designs for trips to the moon. The technology available at the time was simply not advanced enough. Right now, we have the bare-bone plans for interstellar ships... ships that we probably won't build for several centuries, by then the ships we have immagined now will have already been left in the dust.

I'm not too worried about humanity. We don't have a history of wiping ourselves out, we've had the chance for quite a while, and yet we're still here. Still, the doomsday sayers are probably a good thing in that they remind us to be ever vigilant of the end.

Originally posted by Langolier
I immagine we'll find a way to survive. Hundreds of years ago there were at least a few scholars who had primitive designs for trips to the moon. The technology available at the time was simply not advanced enough. Right now, we have the bare-bone plans for interstellar ships... ships that we probably won't build for several centuries, by then the ships we have immagined now will have already been left in the dust.

I'm not too worried about humanity. We don't have a history of wiping ourselves out, we've had the chance for quite a while, and yet we're still here. Still, the doomsday sayers are probably a good thing in that they remind us to be ever vigilant of the end.

Perhaps, the reason we haven't wiped ourselves out yet in the past was because we didn't have the capabilities to do it.

IMO, the human race will be long dead by time the Sun goes red giant.