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Hooligan Detained on the Off Chance He May Have Been Headed To World Cup

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posted on Jun, 8 2006 @ 07:19 PM
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This really steams me up...



www.foxnews.com...

Police arrested a known soccer hooligan at John Lennon Airport on Thursday and stopped him from leaving the country in case he was headed to the World Cup.

British police have the power to prevent any convicted hooligans from going to the World Cup in Germany, which begins Friday. The man was arrested under the Football Disorder Act.

The man arrested Thursday was identified only as a 35-year-old Wolverhampton Wanderers fan, from Cannock in central England. Police did not release his name.


Did ya catch that? Police can stop you from leaving the country if they think you might be going to a soccer game to cause trouble?

What have you Brits done to yourselves with this Hooligan nonsense?

I think it's a pretty sad state of affairs when you can have your passport confiscated, and be denied freedom to leave the country, because you've had past problems with the law.

He wasn't even travelling to Germany! Does this bother anyone else?




posted on Jun, 8 2006 @ 07:44 PM
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Originally posted by WyrdeOne

Did ya catch that? Police can stop you from leaving the country if they think you might be going to a soccer game to cause trouble?

What have you Brits done to yourselves with this Hooligan nonsense?



A number of events during the mid and late Eighties had sent clear signals that fundamental changes were needed to the structure of professional football. The English game was at possibly its lowest ebb ever. Stadiums were crumbling, supporters were faced with poor facilities, hooliganism was rife and English clubs were banned from European competition following the events at Heysel in 1985.
Source.


Football is undergoing/has undergone a renaissance in England after the dark days of Hooliganism, where they were stopped from competing in European competitions, meaning loss of revenue, loss of the best players, and above all else, loss of pride in the national game. This man is a known hooligan, the type of person who does not support the team, rather uses a sporting event as an excuse to cause the ugliest type of disorder, to fight, maim, and maybe even kill another football supporter, because they come from another country/support another team. The situation in English for a time got pretty radical, and radical measures are required to fight these idiots. I'm sorry, but in this sort of case, when you are a known hooligan, then you reap what you sow.

Football hooliganism

Heysel

[edit on 8/6/06 by Implosion]



posted on Jun, 8 2006 @ 07:49 PM
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I just don't take to the notion of guilty in the absence of action, yaknow?

I realize that these hooligans are a severe problem, but I don't think the best way of dealing with them is to restrict their movement. The sports stadium would be well within its right keeping known troublemakers from attending, but I think it's a fair bit too draconian to confiscate passports and deny people the ability to travel.



posted on Jun, 8 2006 @ 07:53 PM
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Originally posted by WyrdeOne
I just don't take to the notion of guilty in the absence of action, yaknow?


I'm sorry but in this case, there is no absence of action, he is convicted of football violence and just like a prisoner on death row, this man must pay for his crimes. If that punishment is no travel during a major Football tournament, when the eyes of the world are watching, than so be it. Think of it as an ASBO, or a Restraining order.

[edit on 8/6/06 by Implosion]



posted on Jun, 8 2006 @ 08:04 PM
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Pardon me, but we both know this man was not detained for committing an act of violence, he was detained because authorities suspect he had the intention to commit an act of violence. The basis for their belief is neither here nor there. Thought crime by any other name...

A restraining order is one thing, a general travel ban is another I think. As I said, I can understand banning hooligans from attending events, but restricting their ability to travel outside the country is going too far.

I don't have to deal with hooligans, and I have absolutely no say in how the Brits run their country - I just thought it pretty shocking that the authorities have this sort of power.

I guess the average citizen across the pond feels strongly enough about the situation to support these measures, and if that's the case, hey, whatever floats their boat. God knows I have no sympathy for rabble rousers, but I think there are plenty of ways to curtail their bad behavior without going to these extremes.



posted on Jun, 8 2006 @ 08:17 PM
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The fan had a ticket to Amsterdam, but the Netherlands borders Germany. England faces Paraguay in its first group game in Frankfurt on Saturday.

After English fans rioted at the 1998 World Cup in France and the 2000 European Championship in Belgium and the Netherlands, the British government created new laws to stop convicted hooligans from leaving the country to watch the team play.

British police ordered 3,500 hooligans to surrender their passports prior to this month's World Cup. So far, 180 of those have not done so.
Source.


The above is from the link you posted, and states that he was on his way to a country bordering Germany. That kinda throws fresh light on the situation, don't you think?


I guess the average citizen across the pond feels strongly enough about the situation to support these measures,



LONDON (AFP) - More than 3,000 English football hooligans were due to have handed over their passports to police to prevent them travelling to the World Cup in Germany.

The 3,286 football supporters subject to a banning order preventing them from attending matches were required to hand their passports in to their local police stations by 5:00pm (1600 GMT) Tuesday.

They will also be required to attend a police station each time England play during the tournament.
Source.


These are people who are known to have acted like animals in the past, who heap shame on our country, and let's not forget, have been, and could again be responsible for bringing a huge industry and favourite pastime of many an ordinary citizen, English Football crashing to it's knees once more. So yes it would be safe to say that there is a lot of support for these measures, it's a damn shame that they are needed, but that's life in this country in the 21st century.


[edit on 8/6/06 by Implosion]



posted on Jun, 9 2006 @ 03:14 AM
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Yeah, implosion, I saw that, and I know that the Netherlands borders Germany.

It still seems to me that combatting Hooliganism is a worthy enough endeavor to do right.

That means changing the culture, not forcing people to remain in England.

Speaking of culture, what sort of loser has nothing to live for besides football? I think people seriously need to examine the worth of their existence, if the only thing that gets them out of bed is the off-chance of starting a riot. Seriously...

I think it's a fine sport, but taking it so seriously is a sign of serious mental health issues, IMO.


CX

posted on Jun, 9 2006 @ 03:22 AM
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I'm on the fence with this one. I agree with all the above posts in part, yes i agree that these thugs deserve to lose certain priveledges when they act like they have done in the past, then again a lot of the punishments are as they say, "No travel during international games" or whatever the exact wording is.

As well as being on the receiving end of football violence as an ex copper, i've a couple of friends who have previously been in trouble for hooliganism and who have received similar punishments, however they have now got family and have totaly changed thier ways. They have too much to lose from getting put inside. So it is a shame that when they want to go abroad on holiday with thier family they can't. Then again they should have thought about when they did the crime.

These punishments, whilst they may seem harsh and breaching certain freedom rights, they were'nt made lightly and without due cause. Anyone who does enough research into England's footie thug history, or who has seen this sort of violence first hand, will see why such restricting measures are nesseccary.

I wonder if you can compare this case with say a person who gets disqualified for drunk driving after knocking someone down? The driver has caused misery, suffering and damage due to his driving whilst over the limit, and is banned as a result for 5 years. However two years into his ban, he really is learning his lesson and has vowed never to do it again, and wants to take his family on holiday for a few days to the coast. Is it bad that he still can't drive because he's still on a ban for his irresponsible actions previously? Personally i think not.

There is a good series on at the moment on Bravo (Sky) called Real Football Factories which gives you a little taster of some of the different hooligan groupls past and present. Heres a small clip of the programme....

www.bravo.co.uk...

My personal take on this whole thing? I detest football thugs. I find thier stupidity almost baffling. I have to shake my head in wonderment when i see a football fan, a die hard supporter of thier club bragging because they can't ever go withing a hundred yards of thier teams ground again! Well that was clever of you eh?


CX.


CX

posted on Jun, 9 2006 @ 03:27 AM
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Originally posted by WyrdeOne


Speaking of culture, what sort of loser has nothing to live for besides football? I think people seriously need to examine the worth of their existence, if the only thing that gets them out of bed is the off-chance of starting a riot. Seriously...

I think it's a fine sport, but taking it so seriously is a sign of serious mental health issues, IMO.


Classic


My view entirely! I used to enjoy football as a kid, was even pretty good at it and still am. Yet i almost hate the game now due to what people have made it. Almost a religeon with just as many wars. Grown men crying into thier beer over a game for Gods sake! I'm all for supporting the national team, but get a life while you're doing it please!

Don't even get me started on the amount of crap they'll stick a red cross on just to sell it nowadays!


CX.



posted on Jun, 9 2006 @ 04:23 AM
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Originally posted by WyrdeOne
Pardon me, but we both know this man was not detained for committing an act of violence, he was detained because authorities suspect he had the intention to commit an act of violence. The basis for their belief is neither here nor there. Thought crime by any other name...

A restraining order is one thing, a general travel ban is another I think. As I said, I can understand banning hooligans from attending events, but restricting their ability to travel outside the country is going too far.

I don't have to deal with hooligans, and I have absolutely no say in how the Brits run their country - I just thought it pretty shocking that the authorities have this sort of power.

I guess the average citizen across the pond feels strongly enough about the situation to support these measures, and if that's the case, hey, whatever floats their boat. God knows I have no sympathy for rabble rousers, but I think there are plenty of ways to curtail their bad behavior without going to these extremes.


I can't help thinking that if you had hoolganism in the US, you may think differently. Imagine if fights between large organised gangs of thugs at baseball games were a common occurrence, both inside and outside the stadiums. Imagine if every time there is a game between the major baseball teams, Police have to flood the surrounding area, the streets, bus stations, railway stations and set up cordons to keep fans seperate and prevent violence. Imagine seeing the local shopkeepers shutting at lunchtime and pulling down shutters to potect their premises. Imagine the next time a basebal game takes place in your town, hundreds of drunken young men arrive by train and roam the streets en masse, with the sole intention of causing violence. That's the situation which led to the UK government having to come down heavy on hooligans.

You have to understand, hooligans are not just rough individuals who like a bit of a random fight. They are a part of organised gangs who live for the 'thrill' of the fight at the football match. It's not about sport, that's just the banner they march under. Football hooliganism is a very highly organised underworld. For the people at the top it is very much like running a small war, with tactics and suchlike employed to circumvent Police cordons or sneak past barricades....simply so they can fight the opposite team's fans.

Those same hooligans become like a travelling army during World Cup tournaments, taking the violence to foreign countries...where those countries own home-bred hooligans wait to repel the 'invaders'. Once the Police started blocking travel to certain countries for hooligans during Cup seasons, the hooligans got around it by travelling to a different country, and entering the target country through the back door. That's precisely why known hooligans, such as the individual you comment upon, can be stopped from travelling even if they are not heading to a country hosting a football match.

[edit on 9-6-2006 by Kung Foo Fighter]



posted on Jun, 9 2006 @ 04:36 AM
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I can't help thinking that if you had hoolganism in the US, you may think differently.


Well, we certainly have gang violence, a fair sight worse than the UK I might add. But you may be right, I'm not in a position to judge the situation fairly, because I don't have to deal with it. I have lived in some of the roughest neighborhoods in this country though, and despite all the senseless violence I've witnessed, I still don't take kindly to the notion that punishment is equivalent to cure.

For example, I spent a little over a year in a Chicago neighborhood, Humboldt Park. Shots fired at least twice a week, and every weekend without fail. We had gang bangers taking pot shots at our patio lights, and using our alley as an escape route to get away from the cops. We had multiple bullets lodged in our vinyl siding, and in one instance a round perforated the back wall and traversed the bedroom.

I am sympathetic to the voices calling for an end to the violence, but I can't bring myself to believe that this is the best way to achieve that goal. It starts with education, and it pretty much ends with education.

Why are these louts drinking and smashing each other to begin with? Because their lives have no other meaning, apparently. I think that in general it's futile to hack at the branches, if you have no intention of attacking the root system that nourishes new growth.



You have to understand, hooligans are not just rough individuals who like a bit of a random fight. They are a part of organised gangs who live for the 'thrill' of the fight at the football match.


All the more reason to bring back gladiatorial combat. If these malcontents want to smash faces and kick ribs, let them do it for our amusement instead of at our expense.



posted on Jun, 9 2006 @ 05:28 AM
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Well look, the first of the idiots have already been nicked. And of course, they're English


THREE Englishmen who vandalised an airport taxi within minutes of arriving in Germany for the World Cup are believed to be the first hooligans of any nationality to be arrested.

The men, from the Midlands, were held in the huge German police operation aimed at minimising trouble during the month-long tournament. They were detained overnight in Cologne and appeared in court yesterday morning where they pleaded guilty to being drunk and disorderly.

The three verbally abused a taxi driver and attacked his vehicle when he refused to take them to the city centre because they were so drunk. The court fined the men and banned them from Cologne for the duration of the tournament, but they were allowed to go free and are believed to be still in Germany
full story

See now, thats why the banning orders are in place, and I think I speak for all true football supporters when i say, good job too.


All the more reason to bring back gladiatorial combat. If these malcontents want to smash faces and kick ribs, let them do it for our amusement instead of at our expense.


I've been thinking that too. Organise a field somewhere, let the nuckle draggers beat the snot our of each other, televise it. Profit! At least it would pay for their medical bills. Unfortunately, never gonna happen. Why? because it would quickly become far bigger than football!



posted on Jun, 9 2006 @ 07:58 AM
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As has been said, Britain has long been familiar with the concept of football violence. I am led to believe that hooliganism as we commonly perceive it originated in the early 1970's. During that time it seems that all manner of 'solutions' have been implemented, with a heavy hand appearing to be the only measure that has been effective so far, however, the legality of contemporary Police tactics against supposed hooloigans has been called into question.


Originally posted by WyrdeOne
Why are these louts drinking and smashing each other to begin with? Because their lives have no other meaning, apparently. I think that in general it's futile to hack at the branches, if you have no intention of attacking the root system that nourishes new growth.


You have to appreciate that the kinds of men that engage in such activities are no longer members of the 'huddled masses', if you like. They come from a very broad spectrum of society, from the unemployed working class layabout to solicitors and stockbrokers. To paint these people with a broad brush leads to incorrect conclusions, in my opinion.

The idea of education as a tool to fight the causes of such violent urges looks good on paper, but the midset that seems to lead to these actions would appear to be deep seated. Britain, particulary, has a history in which violent actions have been significant. I often think that today's English football hooligan is the distant cousin of some Elizabethan sailor: all that drinking, singing, travelling and fighting!

Interestingly, one of the main gripes aired by contemporay 'lads' is that they object to the number of families that now attend games. The influx of non-traditional fans into the game is commonly cited as having 'spoilt' things for your average football hooligan, which can only be a good thing for 99% of people who enjoy watching football.

Of course this does nothing to address the root causes of football violence which, after all, exist in the minds of men. There does not seem to be an easy answer to the question of how to stop men wanting to fight sometimes.


Originally posted by ridcully
Well look, the first of the idiots have already been nicked. And of course, they're English


To be fair Ridcully, German, Polish, Dutch and Italian fans are expected to 'out-perform' English hooligans at this World Cup. British fans are said to be subject to the most restrictive procedures that are applied to such groups accross Europe, and as a result, many of the main troublemakers are unable to travel.

A significant problem exists, however, in that restrictions placed upon fans is not uniform accross the Europen Union, meaning that Eastern Europen fans, who are considered to be high risk, are more or less free to travel.

Unfortunately, trouble is expected at this World Cup, and English fans will no doubt be implicated in the press, rightly or wrongly.



posted on Jun, 9 2006 @ 08:27 AM
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Why are these louts drinking and smashing each other to begin with? Because their lives have no other meaning, apparently. I think that in general it's futile to hack at the branches, if you have no intention of attacking the root system that nourishes new growth.


I think football hoolagnism reached it it's height during the rather dark days of the 70's and 80's.

Lots of poorly educated, unemployed men looking for something to bring a little excitement into their lives....

Still now, the average "hooligan" is likely to be an uneducated type, who is probably looking for that "thrill" he thinks he can only get with smashing someones head in..

I think the punishment is fair. They can always go on holiday in the other 48 weeks of the year, it's hardly life ending, whereas letting them travel to a tournament and starting a fight might well be for some hapless chap.

EDIT to add:



A significant problem exists, however, in that restrictions placed upon fans is not uniform accross the Europen Union, meaning that Eastern Europen fans, who are considered to be high risk, are more or less free to travel.


It is widley accepted that Balkan and Eastern Europeans have the worst football hooligans of the lot. They are quite prepared to kill people where they stand for having the wrong shirt on....

[edit on 9/6/06 by stumason]



posted on Jun, 9 2006 @ 08:38 AM
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Funnily enough I was watching a program a while ago about football hooligans and it was saying that in the last few yrs the majority of those arrested have been professionals in good jobs, one of then was a stockbroker in a major London firm and I think another was a postman.

I dont have a problem with them stopping the guy going abroad, after all , why is it that at every world cup they have to stop people who just happen to have chosen those 4 weeks to go to a country right next door to where the World Cup is being held ?, last time tehey all happened to be booking holidays in the far east, by sheer coincidence.



posted on Jun, 10 2006 @ 01:43 AM
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Originally posted by CIS001
Funnily enough I was watching a program a while ago about football hooligans and it was saying that in the last few yrs the majority of those arrested have been professionals in good jobs, one of then was a stockbroker in a major London firm and I think another was a postman.

I dont have a problem with them stopping the guy going abroad, after all , why is it that at every world cup they have to stop people who just happen to have chosen those 4 weeks to go to a country right next door to where the World Cup is being held ?, last time tehey all happened to be booking holidays in the far east, by sheer coincidence.


I wouldn't describe a Postman as a professional nor as in a "good" job, but I agree that there are some apparently well off types who seem to want to get involved in hoolaganism. It's probably out of some sick need to get some thrill after spending all week talking to Tarquin from accounts...

Regardless though, the majority are not bankers and stockbrokers.

At the end of the day, they knew the score when they went on rampages that got them caught. They can take a holiday at any other time of the year, so they shouldn't be at all surprised that they cannot travel during the world cup.

Some have been arrested trying to get into Germany via the Czech Republic. They left before the ban was activated, but the authorities across Europe are working to tackle the problem.

It's nice to see the Human Rights crowd haven't jumped on this bandwagon, as they so often do causing laws to be ineffective against what they were designed to combat.



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