Sexuality Not a Choice

While some people still insist that homo- (and hetero-) sexuality is a "choice," scientists disagree�according to the latest research, we're born with our sexuality hardwired into our genes.

Here is the rest of the story:
www.unknowncountry.com...
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This is what I have always believed to be the truth. What do you guys think? If you're going to reply please refrain from being homophobic.

'If you're going to reply please refrain from being homophobic.'


LOL! I wouldn't be too optimistic Ocelot!

This has been long debated with both sides of the issue providing a study to prove their point.
The most believable study I have read implied that environment plays a major factor.
(I couldn't find the piece that I mention, but this one is close.)

www.scientists4pr.org...

The Stress Connection
That appeared to be the case until the 1970s, when the East German scientist Gunter Dorner heard of the work of Selye and others on the physiological effects of social stress in laboratory rats and mice. Dorner had already spent much of his career investigating the role hormones such as estrogen and testosterone play in the development of the fetus, particularly in determining an individual�s sexual orientation. He was especially intrigued by reports that female rats subjected to severe social stress during pregnancy tended to produce male offspring that were attracted only to other male rats. Since he already knew that high stress levels experienced during pregnancy resulted in lower levels of male hormones in the womb, he decided to survey that section of the German population that had been born during and just after World War II to see if he could detect statistical evidence of the link between stress and sexuality in society at large. From the eight hundred homosexuals questioned in the survey, Dorner was able to determine that the homosexual birthrate (i.e., the percentage of homosexuals in the overall population) had indeed fluctuated according to the levels of stress suffered by women during pregnancy. More homosexuals had been born during the years of greatest social stress�during the last months of the conflict and those immediately following the war�than at any other time. In fact, two-thirds of the homosexual men and their mothers reported prebirth levels of stress ranging from �moderate� to �extreme,� and the stated causes included bombing, rape, and extreme anxiety. By contrast, only 10% of the heterosexuals in the control group reported unusual maternal stress during the prenatal period, and the mothers of these individuals reported only moderate prenatal stress.

A simple google search comes up with pages of views in both directions. Most notable about this is the fact that most are religious oriented views.
While the link below has results from Gallup polls showing public sentiment rather than scientific facts, I found it interesting nonetheless.

www.religioustolerance.org...

Peace,
BG

Ok,

So Scientist's say that it is not a choice ehh? Well are these the same so called scientist's that change there mind every year on findings that they produced just a year earlier. Let me produce a few examples: the most popular being eggs one year they will clog your atteries and the next year they don't contain very much cholesterol at all. What about tea it supposedly contributes to cancer growth but now it helps to prevent it? Ah and what about Rice it was once the miracle food but now it makes you fat. Come on give me a break! These guys don't know what the hell they are talking about.

This is my beleif on the matter and if you don't like it then thats fine you are entitled to your opinion just like I am to mine. Being gay is not pre-programed into your brain from birth no-way no-how. You may be born with a desire for the opposite sex but the choice to act on that desire is what makes you gay. That's right a choice!

Our society does not give rights to Alcholics because they are a minority do we? We don't let the druggies march on washington to be heard. No, we send them to rehab. They also have a desire for something that they have to battle with, but the difference is that society accepts the gay community no questions asked. Come on is it not a coincidance that since the early 90's when the gay movement started that the number of gay's has increased from less than 1% of the population to 3% today? No its not it has become acceptable to be gay, Wouldn't an alcholic or a druggie love for society to accept them in the same way.

Bottom line is being born gay is a bunch of crap, you may have the desire but you have the god given abiltiy to choose yourself. As I sit here and right this message I have the desire to eat a pizza but I choose not to because I am tired of being overweight. It's all the same just think about it.

I just can't beleive that society is accepting of gay's when there are so many things that we do not accept.

i dont belive it.. every one has a choice . nothing is set in stone. if you wanna be gay thats your choice. to each his own. I am not gay this is a choice i made not my genes.

I just can't beleive that society is accepting of gay's when there are so many things that we do not accept.


Yes it must be such an affront to a 'reasonable man' like yourself!

Originally posted by Ocelot
While some people still insist that homo- (and hetero-) sexuality is a "choice," scientists disagree�according to the latest research, we're born with our sexuality hardwired into our genes.

Here is the rest of the story:
www.unknowncountry.com...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is what I have always believed to be the truth. What do you guys think? If you're going to reply please refrain from being homophobic.

I also agree that people are born with their sexual preference already in their genes. It's not like you can just convert to being a homosexual one day and never look at the opposite sex again and not feel some kind of attraction.

Another question that comes up with me tho, is how do you explain when say, a girl is repeatedly raped and molested by her father as a child, and later in life is a lesbian. Born thing? Or acquired over horrible experiences?

If the topic of the thread is sexuality in general, I suddenly got horny around the age of 13 whether I liked it or not. That is completely genetic as I never had such thoughts until then. So yes, feelings of sexuality are inborn.

Regarding sexual preference (not sexuality in general) however, I do feel its inborn as well. I don't see the issue with what people do with their lives so long as it does not negatively impact another person. That impact does not include other people's perceptions.

[Edited on 23-10-2003 by heelstone]

Black jackal,

The number of gays has not increased, the number of gays that feel more comfortable admitting to it has.

Why do you lump it in with druggies and alcoholics.

Do you speak about choice from the experience of being gay yourself, or an opinion formed from your own perception or predjudice.

If it is a choice how would you deal with gay people if you had the authority to. Would you be pro the freedom to act on it or see it as some kind of problem for society.

[Edited on 23-10-2003 by ubermunche]

Originally posted by ubermunche
Black jackal,

The number of gays has not increased, the number of gays that feel more comfortable admitting to it has.

You are exactly correct! Since the "gay movement" more and more people are acting on desires that they have had.

Let me tell you a story of a very dear friend of mine that happens to be gay. This man is 32 years old and up until 6 years ago he was straight as an arrow. He was engaged to a beautiful women that he was greatly in love with, but she cheated on him and the engagment was shot. Since that point in time he has been gay and now has a life partner living with him. He is gay because he acted on his desires out of hatred towards his ex-fiance.

Now he made a choice when he was 26 to become gay. Like I have said before you may be born with the desire but it is your choice to act upon those deisres.

Why do you lump it in with druggies and alcoholics.

I lump in alcholics, druggies, Rapist's, Child Molestor, etc... into this group. Why? Because a rapist is not born a rapist even though he may be born with some freaky sex drive and if he acts on those desires is that ok? A Child molestor may have the desire to have sex with children but does that make it right if he/she acts on those desires? An alcholic may have a desire for liquor but does that make it right to drink all the time?

The answer to all the questions above is NO! So my question to you is why is ok that someone with the desire to be with a member of the same sex acts on those desires is it ok?

If this is something that is born into humans wouldn't you think that it could happen to some other animals on the face of the planet since we are all just organisms. But wait a minute there has never been a documented case of a gay animal. Why? because animals cannot make decisions they just go on instinct and that instinct tells them to reproduce ironically enough the same thing that human instincts tell us. It all comes down to human choice not genes.

Humans are the only creatures that have free choice and the only creatures that are gay. Hmmmmmmm.

Do you speak about choice from the experience of being gay yourself, or an opinion formed from your own perception or predjudice.

I speak from personal experience. I have wanted to be with a member of my same sex for a long time but I have choosen not to. I have been married had two beautiful children and been divorced. I am about to marry again to the woman of my dreams but I still have the desire to be with a man but I will not act on that desire.

If it is a choice how would you deal with gay people if you had the authority to. Would you be pro the freedom to act on it or see it as some kind of problem for society.

Allowing people to act on this desire is as bad as someone raping a child but it doesn't get that kind of billing because the two parties envolved are generally consential. But to allow gay couples to adopt children destroys our society. To allow gay people to hold religous positions when the religion is against it (ie Sodom and Ghomara).

People that act on these desires should be treated just like alcholics, drug addicts, etc. They are not neccesarily bad people they just need help to understand what they are dealing with. Just as it is with any other destructive condition the person with the problem usually does not see it as a problem



[Edited on 23-10-2003 by BlackJackal]

Black Jackal,

I cannot speak for your friend as I do not know him but from the my own experience and those of others I know most would not turn gay out of some deep hatred and rejection by a member of the opposite sex, most aregay and at some point decide to acknowledge it and act upon it, your friend sounds either bi-sexual or the exception that proves the rule.

You seem keen to make anology's between gays and certain members of society whose actions are for the most part negative and destructive to those around them as well as themselves, why not comparisons with say, someone who has a desire to paint, or learn a new skill or retake their marriage vows, something positive and empowering. It sounds as though your trying to intimate sin by association and it's a fatuous tactic as it's proving nothing other than each issue should be regarded within it's own context. As to your question as why it should be OK when the others are not well it's pretty obvious do I really need to answer it! Consensual adult choice relating to consensual adult matters. Try living next door to a junkie then your average gay person to see the vast difference. BTW many animals exhibit gay behaviour, sometimes exclusively and if animals can't make choices how come my cat always prefers a certain brand of cat food and the same spot under the same chair.

As for your own feelings, I applaud you for your honesty as I suspect that some, not all but some, of the homophobia encountered on this board and elsewhere is due to much the same inner turmoil. I hope you find much happiness with the woman you love and good luck but you have a choice, I've yet to meet the woman I fall in love with, marry or want to have sex with and I doubt very much I ever will so sexually am I supposed to cease to exist. Lucky you for having a choice to make.

Finally I very much disagree that my being allowed to act on my desires is as bad as being allowed to rape a child. Have you ever seen the aftermath of rape, child or adult, again a highly questionable and tenuous comparison. I also very much disagree that I should be treated just like an alcoholic or junkie, I should be treated like a human being with rights and freedoms as well as responsibilities and be left to make my own decisions like any other adult.