WTC Steel Analysis Reveals Thermite and Thermate By-Products

you were so sure abovebut now it is "possibly"? YOU DO NOT PLACE CHARGES BEFORE PREFAILING. Are you going to use an oxy-acetelyne torch next to HE or Thermite? Stupid... Why do I even respond.

I said 'possibly' to head off your predictable responses, which would have been."oh..you know for sure thats what they're doing?..source please" It really doesn't matter though does it? Your suggesting that they're using the devise that you posted the patent to is totally speculative.


Well which is it? Thermite or HE?


You're claiming its thermite..so why not use a torch near it?...why I don't know..but why not?
You're trying to confuse things.
Thermite is not an explosive charge, and there no reason to believe that torches were to be used near explosives or thermite for that matter.
I assume the 'thermite bands' being placed are used instead of the torch, so what you're implying doesn't really wash.

It is a device for cutting through THICK metals. Perfect for CD if you ask me or READ the patent.

I did read the patent. Nothing in reference to its applicability to CD.

YOU think it would work for CD? Again, using your own criteria..you should have no reason to believe what you believe is true according to you.

He hs SOME photoso... NOT the 7,000 the NIST is hiding. It would be EXPONENTIALLY esier for the gov't to DISPROVE him if they could... however, they cannot.

Correct. They cannot...release the photos that is. The vast majority of those pics belong to private citizens. They don't have the authority to release them to the public. Why should they?

I have seen NOTHING that could be considered PROOF from the official story so that in itself is reasonable doubt.

No, thats called ignoring the truth in favor of an ideological/political bias...But you do realize that with making that statement you've set a pretty high standard for what must be met in order for you to accept something as evidence don't you?.....unless you have a bias or something.

[edit on 25-7-2006 by Vushta]

Originally posted by Slap Nuts

Originally posted by Vushta
What was found was by-products of many possible things.

The most likely of which is Thermate. He states it is evidence and theory not FACT as you claim all of your junk to be.

What is it and what makes thermite 'the most likely' source? Please don't ask me to read his 175 page diatribe. I assume you have and have also evauated the evidence presented. So in you own words, what is the factor connecting the two exclusively together to the exclusion of any other source?

Originally posted by Vushta
Well which is it? Thermite or HE?

Doesn't matter, it is what I like to call an example. You would not place the charges prior to pre-failing the colums. It is out of order, possibly VERY dangerous and they would get in the way.

Originally posted by Vushta
You're claiming its thermite..so why not use a torch near it?...why I don't know..but why not?

Because it would get in the way? It is not the order the process is done in?

Originally posted by Vushta
You're trying to confuse things.
Thermite is not an explosive charge, and there no reason to believe that torches were to be used near explosives or thermite for that matter.
I assume the 'thermite bands' being placed are used instead of the torch, so what you're implying doesn't really wash.

No, I am being logical. First you PREFAIL THEN you place the charges... regardless of if they ar HE or Thermite. I am SURE you wil get NO support on this as you are dead wrong.

Originally posted by Vushta
YOU think it would work for CD? Again, using your own criteria..you should have no reason to believe what you believe is true according to you.

CD requires cutting thick steel. You are just being silly now. Of course it could be used for this application. WEAK WEAK WEAK Vushta.

Originally posted by Vushta
Correct. They cannot. The vast majority of those pics belong to private citizens. They don't have the authority to release them to the public. Why should they?

As far as I know the film has not been returned to the individuals. Can you cite a source saying it has been?

Originally posted by Vushta
No, thats called ignoring the truth in favor of an ideological/political bias...

The truth requires PROOF. PROOF the gov't cannot or will not present. So we seek the truth through other mechanisims. When the gov't provides the PROOF then and only then will it be the TRUTH. Until then it is simple conjecture or as you like to call it conspiracy theory.

Originally posted by Vushta
Please don't ask me to read his 175 page diatribe.

I would not expect you to as you obviously have not read:

The 9/11 Comission Report
The NIST Report
Jones' Original Paper
Jones' New Article
Etc.

Why is it SO HARD o read 172 pages? Do yo want me to read it out loud and record it on .mp3 so you can listen?

Originally posted by Slap Nuts

Originally posted by Vushta
Please don't ask me to read his 175 page diatribe.

I would not expect you to as you obviously have not read:

The 9/11 Comission Report
The NIST Report
Jones' Original Paper
Jones' New Article
Etc.

Why is it SO HARD o read 172 pages? Do yo want me to read it out loud and record it on .mp3 so you can listen?

Is there any particular reason you didn't answer the question in the post you snipped?

I did read about 75 pages of it. Harte was kind enough to email it to me.
After about 75 pages he when into his diatribe about PNAC..blah..blah. and thats where I stop.
If crap like that placed into a "scientific" paper isn't evidence of the true motivation being rooted in a ideological/political bias...well then one must be blind.

I'll respond to your other post later. I have to step out.

Originally posted by Slap Nuts
Why is it SO HARD o read 172 pages? Do yo want me to read it out loud and record it on .mp3 so you can listen?

Man, you got that right.

Most of this "paper" is nothing but fluff anyway. The part of it I've read averages I'm sure around ten words per page if not less.

And most of the content (so far, anyway) is just childish drivel. If he's "answering questions," these "questions" must have been posed to him by grade school students.

Smells like an army of straw men to me.

On one page he gives us a formula for calculating the rate of fall for the building which includes velocity changes due to the impacts, and then he says it shows that it couldn't have happened, the collapse would have stopped after a few floors. Problem is, his formula contains nothing but variables! So, we get the formula, but we don't get any of the numbers he supposedly used in the formula, and we don't even get the resulting answer from the formula!

Speaking of the "free fall" argument, has anybody noticed how, as far as I can tell, all these "calculations"start with the building height as specified, as if that was how far the building fell? Wasn't the pile of rubble several stories tall? The distance the top of the bulding fell is at least 30 feet less than the distance all the sites I've seen are using in their calculations. This is in addition to the fact that you can't get a good time measurement for the fall anyway, since you can't see it finish.


Harte

quote: Why don't they just release their 7,000 photos and 7,000 videos? We could solve this today

Thats an interesting statement.
"We could solve this today"

Of course the implication is that they're hiding a cover up.

The conclusion is based on what?

Originally posted by Damocles
eh i kinda mean solve it one way or the other when i agree.

it will either prove or disprove a coverup

I understand the drive to leave no stone uncovered, but the implication is still the same and that is that the truth is to be found in pictures and that truth is being purposely hidden at the command of the perpetrators. Or maybe I'm just misunderstanding what you mean.

Originally posted by Damocles


i dont see it happening but doesnt it sound nice?

Yes it does because its a scenerio based in reason and unbiased acceptence of the evidence. That takes integrity and an open mind.

Originally posted by Vushta

quote: Why don't they just release their 7,000 photos and 7,000 videos? We could solve this today

Thats an interesting statement.
"We could solve this today"

Of course the implication is that they're hiding a cover up.

NO, I am saying it will show a LOT in either direction. Possibly PROVE either story to be true or false.

Originally posted by Vushta
The conclusion is based on what?

That they will not release the photos and videos?

They will not answer questions?

They are subversive and treat the populace as if they have no obligation to us?

Originally posted by Slap Nuts


That they will not release the photos and videos?

They will not answer questions?

They are subversive and treat the populace as if they have no obligation to us?

The release of the photos and vids has been explained.

What questions?

Thats your opinion. Are they supposed to respond in depth to everyones opinion? Come on.

Originally posted by Vushta
The release of the photos and vids has been explained.

By whom. Please cite our source for this statement.

Originally posted by Slap Nuts

Originally posted by Vushta
The release of the photos and vids has been explained.

By whom. Please cite our source for this statement.

Its been explained the the majority of the pictures are the property of private citizens.

They don't have the right to realse the photos to the public.
There would be liability issues.

Originally posted by Vushta
Its been explained the the majority of the pictures are the property of private citizens.

By whom? I have seen no reports/articles saying that ANY of the 7,000 photos or film has been returned. OTHO, I can list photogs who say their film was taken and NOT returned.

Originally posted by Vushta
I understand the drive to leave no stone uncovered...

No, you do not. You have clearly stated that:

1. The gov't has no responsibility to answer questions.
2. They have no responsibility to release photos.
3. They have no responsibility to release physical evidence.
4. They have no responsibility to backup their official theory with PROOF or even decent EVIDENCE.

Originally posted by Damocles
lol cmon slapnuts, i was actually enjoying my discussion with you.

i even went out of my way to find new stuff that actually helps your side of the debate, even though i stand by my assertations

at least lemme know u read it, even if u think its drivel. im enjoying this, and after tomorrow im out of the convos for almost two weeks

Sorry man Vushta is good at what he does... Distraction.

I have to do a report for work right now BUT I PROMISE, I will respond today. Probably abour 6pm EST.


[edit on 26-7-2006 by Slap Nuts]

Originally posted by Slap Nuts

Originally posted by Vushta
Its been explained the the majority of the pictures are the property of private citizens.

By whom? I have seen no reports/articles saying that ANY of the 7,000 photos or film has been returned. OTHO, I can list photogs who say their film was taken and NOT returned.

Really, since professional photographers were most likely using digital and not film. In any case, it would be your own fault if you submitted an original and not a copy.

Originally posted by HowardRoark

Originally posted by Slap Nuts

Originally posted by Vushta
Its been explained the the majority of the pictures are the property of private citizens.

By whom? I have seen no reports/articles saying that ANY of the 7,000 photos or film has been returned. OTHO, I can list photogs who say their film was taken and NOT returned.

Really, since professional photographers were most likely using digital and not film. In any case, it would be your own fault if you submitted an original and not a copy.

They did not "submit" anything. The MEDIA (film, SDRAM, tapes) were confiscated.

Sorry for simplifying with "film" I should have said media.

Yeah but Howard, how many would honestly know better to do that. It was such an elevated situation, they probably obtained the copies too.

Originally posted by Damocles
if you are saying that the energy of the fall itself REGARDLESS of how it started was sufficient to throw beams and debris, i will agree with you.

HOW the fall started WOULD change the amount of energy available. In the pancketheory, the kenetic energy builds slowly, floor by floor. In th CD theory the KE builds MUCH faster so more energy is available to "eject beams", etc.

quote: Originally posted by Damocles
first of all, focus on the "many things" not the 'hairspray' that was an example. anything in that building under pressure when heated would sound like an explosion. that was all the point im trying to make there. (try throwing a fire extinguisher on a blaze sometime) [dont try this at home]

These are people experienced in EXACTLY the type of situation you are sying they would respond poorly to or misjudge. I personally believe this to be faulty logic. I think they would have the MOST RATIONAL accounts as they are "hardened" or jaded to fire and disaster.

Originally posted by Damocles
subjective. disappointing compared to setting off 200lbs of tnt? yeah. quiet? by no means.

How about compared to a couple million lbs. of steel and concrete collapsing, crushing and turning to dust? I would imagine that isquite loud too. We will need to agree that we are both being subjective I guess.

Originally posted by Damocles
fact, yet, i wasnt really clear. first, i meant 100lbs per floor you were going to demo. the next assumption was that we were going to blast all 47 columns. third was using HE not thermite.

I do not believe they used HE like RDX... too many chemical "fingerprints" and it would take a lot as you point out. I just do not think you need it on EACH FLOOR even if you do HE. Maybe every five? That is 1/5 the amount right there.

I like the depth of your calculation, but even if I though it was HE, I would still say it is deeply flawed because you assume EVERY FLOOR was rigged.

quote: Originally posted by Damocles
as to the comments youve made at me about the firefighters believing it was a cd...no, by no means am i calling them a liar. but you have to admit, or at least consider that its an opinion based on events experienced that were probably very traumatic. but while you have talked to them...in another thread i once posted that id been to a training event with FDNY guys taht had also been there that day, and even after several beers there were talking about the war and how we needed to exact our pound of fless from osamas behind. you can think that they are just being coerced all you want...but beer is the great equalizer.

Psychology is a complex subject. We both know what we were told so again, we must just believe what we were told.

Originally posted by Damocles
now, this one thing you said, i do totally agree with.

Why don't they just release their 7,000 photos and 7,000 videos? We could solve this today.

THANKS. THAT IS ALL I WANT.

Originally posted by Damocles
i guess the last thing i want to say, and this is probly gonna ruffle some feathers, i dont care anymore, its how i feel. if soooo many people KNOW what happened...why are they not coming forward as a group? there is strength in numbers. i know that no ammount of coersion would stop me, some things are more important than even my own life. people like to quote jefferson about the tree of liberty, the down side is that the "patriots" have to be willing to sacrifice. if they arent willing, are they really patriots?

APATHY is the second to last stage of a democracy... just before FACISM. People are comfortable, afraid, paid, threatened, coerced, brainwashed (CNN, FOX NEWS, NYT, Etc.). They do not want to be labeled as UNPATRIOTIC or CRAZY CONSPIRACY THEORISTS. They have been convinced by a massive media campaign. Most are dumbed down by too much TV. Most don't know a damn thing about history, polotics or anything.

Originally posted by Adolf Hitler
"In the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted …they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie… It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously.”

[edit on 26-7-2006 by Slap Nuts]