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WTC Steel Analysis Reveals Thermite and Thermate By-Products

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posted on Jul, 25 2006 @ 08:05 AM
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Originally posted by Slap Nuts

Originally posted by Vushta
.but the actual 'thermite that you claim was 'found'?


The title says BY-PRODUCTS...

Thermate would be burned off leaving BY_PRODUCTS, so what are you asking me to find for you?


Well no.

Your thread clearly states WTC Steel Reveals Thermite and Thermate By-Products.

As stated forget the and part. I'm wondering about the validity of 'revealed 'thermite'....wheres THAT?




posted on Jul, 25 2006 @ 08:17 AM
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Originally posted by bsbray11


Haven't been keeping up with your History Channel?



Those are thermite charges being stuck onto steel columns. Apparently it does work after all.


Thanks for posting those pics.

What are those guys doing? Are they placing the charges to drop the structure or are they prefailing members possibly days or weeks ahead of the actual demo?
Just wondering if you know for sure.

Anyway, notice how they have to have clear access all the way around the steel. That not something you could do by poking your head up into a ceiling tile or heat grate. One thing that those pics don't show is the fusing. Did the History Channel show what the scene looks like before the actual demo?
I don't know about you but if I saw that going on in a building I was occupying, I'd definately ask some questions...probably even before they got to the step you show in the pics. Probably when they started to torch the holes in the steel that you can see.



posted on Jul, 25 2006 @ 08:21 AM
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Originally posted by Vushta
Anyway, notice how they have to have clear access all the way around the steel. That not something you could do by poking your head up into a ceiling tile or heat grate.


They have full access... but prove they NEEDED it or your assumptions hold no water.



posted on Jul, 25 2006 @ 08:22 AM
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Originally posted by Vushta

Originally posted by Slap Nuts

Originally posted by Vushta
.but the actual 'thermite that you claim was 'found'?


The title says BY-PRODUCTS...

Thermate would be burned off leaving BY_PRODUCTS, so what are you asking me to find for you?


Well no.

Your thread clearly states WTC Steel Reveals Thermite and Thermate By-Products.

As stated forget the and part. I'm wondering about the validity of 'revealed 'thermite'....wheres THAT?


You are correct it should say "and/or".

This is a weak attack Vushta, but I am used to your M.O. so no worries.



posted on Jul, 25 2006 @ 08:44 AM
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Its not an 'attack' (you guys are so paranoid).
I simply pointed out what semed to be an obvious mistake in the heading.
How that mistake happened is beyond me. I just pointed it out.

By the way , your response is still deceptive. There is no and because there was no thermite found.

[edit on 25-7-2006 by Vushta]



posted on Jul, 25 2006 @ 08:53 AM
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Originally posted by Vushta
Its not an 'attack' (you guys are so paranoid).
I simply pointed out what semed to be an obvious mistake in the heading.
How that mistake happened is beyond me. I just pointed it out.

By the way , your response is still deceptive. There is no and because there was no thermite found.

[edit on 25-7-2006 by Vushta]


You are getting weaker by the second... semantics.

Also, you are being seceptive by leaving out the word "by-products".

I noticce you ignored my 10 points above... NEAT-O.

No more feeding the troll.

[edit on 25-7-2006 by Slap Nuts]



posted on Jul, 25 2006 @ 09:32 AM
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Originally posted by Slap Nuts


You are getting weaker by the second... semantics.

Also, you are being seceptive by leaving out the word "by-products".

I noticce you ignored my 10 points above... NEAT-O.

No more feeding the troll.

[edit on 25-7-2006 by Slap Nuts]



Semantics? They are important in communication..and they can be used to intentionally miscommunicate.

A more accurate heading for the thread would have been "No Thermite or By-Products Particular to Thermate Were Found"

that would have been accurate and not playing on semantics. After all, no thermite was found. Correct?

No by-products particular to thermate/mite was found..correct?

Haven't noticed your 10 points. I'll look at that.
But isn't that off topic?

[edit on 25-7-2006 by Vushta]



posted on Jul, 25 2006 @ 09:50 AM
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Originally posted by Vushta

Semantics? They are important in communication..and they can be used to intentionally miscommunicate.

A more accurate heading for the thread would have been "No Thermite or By-Products Particular to Thermate Were Found"

that would have been accurate and not playing on semantics. After all, no thermite was found. Correct?

No by-products particular to thermate/mite was found..correct?

Haven't noticed your 10 points. I'll look at that.
But isn't that off topic?

[edit on 25-7-2006 by Vushta]


Actually, according to DR. Jones' new article, many by-products of and other evidence of thermite/mate WERE found...

Arguing wiht you is like punching myself in the nads... pointless and frustrating.



posted on Jul, 25 2006 @ 12:15 PM
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Originally posted by Damocles
[rant]
as to the "small cutter charges". anythign small enough to not be heard wouldnt have done anything to the 12" box collumns.


You are assuming HE such as RDX... I am assuming the patented shaped linear Thermate or superthermite/mate cutter devices. you calculations are moot in this instances.


Originally posted by Damocles
still on the thermite. ok. so, let me ask someone, were ONLY the core columns cut? if so then all of your claims of beams being thrown out of the fall are back to nothing but gravity. because any charges small enough, or since thermite doesnt "blast" anything, to blow the beams out, would have been seen or heard.
however, if the outter columns were cut also..and no one noticed the guys on widow washer type gantry's with these huge boxes of supplies with them (we're talking a LOT of thermite here)...the flashes from teh thermite would have been visible to the naked eye, it would have had a very clear line across each floor cut.


If the core was "dumped" by some thremate "deravitive" I cannot tell you what physics would prevail. You would INSTANTLY be removing at least 50% of the structural support... Could this create enough PE to toss columns etc.? Probably.

I do no theorize that charges were placed on the exterior but I do not know.


Originally posted by Damocles
many things in a fire sound like explosions. how many of the women in the building had a can of hairspray in their desk. ever hear an aeresol can explode in fire? its pretty cool (do NOT try this at home)[/disclaimer ]


Firefighters hear things like this ALL THE TIME. Do not write off their experience. They know better than you what household/office fires produce as far as sounds go I am 100% sure of this. Hairspray.... Jesus.


Originally posted by Damocles
the "squibs". so, air cant bust out one window, but, "small" explosives that no one could hear were able to create enough overpressure to pop JUST ONE random window on each of a few random floors, but no one could hear it?


The visible squibs were about 1000' feet up in a COLLAPSING TOWER. I am sure the DB level was high enough to drown out very loud sounds. Claiming someone should have heard the exact charges that could have caused the squibs is just dumb. If they were close enough... they are dead. I am certain that a poorly placed/timed small shaped charge could blast out a window and produce a squib.


Originally posted by Damocles
imagine 100lbs. per floor. think about it...


Speculation with no basis in fact or reality. Source?


Originally posted by Damocles there's no way anyone alive can calculate how much dust is going to be created by that much falling debris. ill put $100 usd on that one right now to anyone willing to prove me wrong on that one.


I have seen CD. The Hudson's building in Detroit close up. There was not even a mm of dust 100' from the site... 6" of dust was reported in a LARGE radius in NYC. Sure, I cannot calculate it, but I can be reasonable.


Originally posted by Damocles
you dont think, but you dont KNOW do you.


No, I am able to admit when I conjecture.


Originally posted by Damocles
"smelled cordite"


When did I mention this?


Originally posted by Damocles
i will ask for real life first hand experience not some bs from google.


All we have is the available evidence to draw conclusions from. Same thing FEMA, NIST and 9/11 comission did. They proved nothing with millions of dollars and resources.

Why don't they just release their 7,000 photos and 7,000 videos? We could solve this today.

Please do not insult me. I have not insulted you.

[edit on 25-7-2006 by Slap Nuts]



posted on Jul, 25 2006 @ 12:50 PM
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LEt me just add what an explosives expert would tell you about c-4 (just for the fun of it):


There is very little visible smoke and flash, and the "crack" of a C-4 cutter charge is downright disappointing to hear.



posted on Jul, 25 2006 @ 12:57 PM
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Vushta: You are correct; the pic's show they are "prefailing" the columns, which is done on one side or another, depending on the type of CD results desired. Which, by the way, would certainly have to be done since the steel in the lower box columns were 4 to 5 inches thick. This, of course, would require full access to every column, and doing LOTS of pre-demo work.

Why debunk Jones???

Bunk. Noun. def: 1- Unacceptable behavior (especially ludicrously false statements)

So, to "debunk" the Jones tripe would be to prove him accurate.

Slapnuts: Mr. Pointy debunked your list of 10, and quite well.... as did Damocles pertaining to his expertise.


All we have is the available evidence to draw conclusions from.


REPLY: Using the Jones bunk is hardly evidence of everything that has been presumed from his paper. Also, remember that "evidence" noes not provide "proof" of one's allegations. "Evidence" is discredited in matters of law all the time.

You guys have fun. Damocles... give it up. teching one who refuses to learn is an exercise in futility.



posted on Jul, 25 2006 @ 01:06 PM
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Originally posted by zappafan1
Vushta: You are correct; the pic's show they are "prefailing" the columns,


Drilling two holes is pre-failing? Source please?


Originally posted by zappafan1
Which, by the way, would certainly have to be done since the steel in the lower box columns were 4 to 5 inches thick. This, of course, would require full access to every column, and doing LOTS of pre-demo work.


Unless of course you used the PATENTED thermate cutter charge.... which is what they are using in the pics.



You can find the ENTIRE PATENT TEXT here: www.patentstorm.us...


Originally posted by zappafan1
Why debunk Jones???


Because he presents evidence that contradicts the offical BS. He poses questions that should be EASILY ANSWERED by the NIST, FEMA and 9/11 Comision... why are they so quiet? All he wants is the pictures, videos and some samples.


Originally posted by zappafan1
Slapnuts: Mr. Pointy debunked your list of 10, and quite well.... as did Damocles pertaining to his expertise.


I have no proof of his skills. He uses no citations or references so we disagree. He has debunked exactly nothing.


Originally posted by zappafan1
REPLY: Using the Jones bunk is hardly evidence of everything that has been presumed from his paper. Also, remember that "evidence" noes not provide "proof" of one's allegations. "Evidence" is discredited in matters of law all the time.


He is presenting EVIDENCE to raise REASONABLE DOUBT to get the SUPRESSED EVIDENCE released and a new INVESTIGATION opened so there can be PROOF.

Are you slow? OR have you not even read his papers?

I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume the latter.

Don't let the door hit ya...

[edit on 25-7-2006 by Slap Nuts]



posted on Jul, 25 2006 @ 01:32 PM
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Actually, according to DR. Jones' new article, many by-products of and other evidence of thermite/mate WERE found...


Well no.

Unless the 'by-products' were exclusive to thermite/mate evidence of thermite was not found.
What was found was by-products of many possible things.

This is another example of Jone and and his bad scientific methods.

Do you agree with this?

I'm not argueing I'm just pointing out the flaws in your reasoning.



posted on Jul, 25 2006 @ 01:35 PM
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Originally posted by Slap Nuts
LEt me just add what an explosives expert would tell you about c-4 (just for the fun of it):


There is very little visible smoke and flash, and the "crack" of a C-4 cutter charge is downright disappointing to hear.


Care to share who this expert is?

If what he says is true..what are all those deafening explosive sounds appearent in all CD's?
Just curious. Maybe you could ask your expert?



posted on Jul, 25 2006 @ 02:01 PM
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Drilling 2 holes??

No.. prefailing is the end result of the process that those two guys are possibly starting.

Slappy, you just keep making the conspiracy more and more complicated.

That devise you linked to looks nothing like whats happening in those 2 pics...but anyway, the devise you show must be fit around the entire member being cut horizontally..and it looks like no easy task and requires even more clearance room.

There is no indication at all that the devise is meant to be used in CD applications. Salvage operations?...probably.



Because he presents evidence that contradicts the offical BS. He poses questions that should be EASILY ANSWERED by the NIST, FEMA and 9/11 Comision... why are they so quiet? All he wants is the pictures, videos and some samples.


And what is this evidence?

What are his questions that NIST/FEMA should easily answer?

If he doesn't have pics, vids, and samples..what is he using to come up with all this "got cha" evidence? These question should be EASILY ANSWERED by Jones or his groupies.



He is presenting EVIDENCE to raise REASONABLE DOUBT to get the SUPRESSED EVIDENCE released and a new INVESTIGATION opened so there can be PROOF.


I've seen nothing from Jones that could be construed to be 'reasonable doubt'.
Got any examples?



posted on Jul, 25 2006 @ 02:03 PM
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Originally posted by Vushta

Originally posted by Slap Nuts
LEt me just add what an explosives expert would tell you about c-4 (just for the fun of it):


There is very little visible smoke and flash, and the "crack" of a C-4 cutter charge is downright disappointing to hear.


Care to share who this expert is?

If what he says is true..what are all those deafening explosive sounds appearent in all CD's?
Just curious. Maybe you could ask your expert?


Sam Gronning, a licensed, professional blaster in Casper, Wyoming with 30 years experience in explosives



posted on Jul, 25 2006 @ 02:07 PM
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Originally posted by Vushta

Drilling 2 holes??

No.. prefailing is the end result of the process that those two guys are possibly starting.


you were so sure abovebut now it is "possibly"? YOU DO NOT PLACE CHARGES BEFORE PREFAILING. Are you going to use an oxy-acetelyne torch next to HE or Thermite? Stupid... Why do I even respond.


Originally posted by Vushta
There is no indication at all that the devise is meant to be used in CD applications. Salvage operations?...probably.


It is a device for cutting through THICK metals. Perfect for CD if you ask me or READ the patent.


Originally posted by Vushta
If he doesn't have pics, vids, and samples..what is he using to come up with all this "got cha" evidence? These question should be EASILY ANSWERED by Jones or his groupies.


He has SOME photos... NOT the 7,000 the NIST is hiding. It would be EXPONENTIALLY esier for the gov't to DISPROVE him if they could... however, they cannot.


Originally posted by Vushta
I've seen nothing from Jones that could be construed to be 'reasonable doubt'.
Got any examples?


I have seen NOTHING that could be considered PROOF from the official story so that in itself is reasonable doubt.

[edit on 25-7-2006 by Slap Nuts]



posted on Jul, 25 2006 @ 02:12 PM
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Originally posted by Slap Nuts

Sam Gronning, a licensed, professional blaster in Casper, Wyoming with 30 years experience in explosives


Oh..another contributor to rense.com
He provides no citations or credentials to back up his claim. So according to the criteria of you.....he's bogus.



posted on Jul, 25 2006 @ 02:14 PM
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Originally posted by Vushta

Originally posted by Slap Nuts

Sam Gronning, a licensed, professional blaster in Casper, Wyoming with 30 years experience in explosives


Oh..another contributor to rense.com
He provides no citations or credentials to back up his claim. So according to the criteria of you.....he's bogus.


Haven't seen him on Rense as I do not read that site, BUT whatever ou say Vushta.

Prove the govt's story... unil then you are wasting my time.

I NOTICE YOU IGNORED ALL OF MY OTHER POINTS... TYPICAL.


Mod Note: General ATS Discussion Etiquette – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 7/25/2006 by 12m8keall2c] Sorry... frustration.

[edit on 25-7-2006 by Slap Nuts]



posted on Jul, 25 2006 @ 02:17 PM
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Originally posted by Vushta
What was found was by-products of many possible things.


The most likely of which is Thermate. He states it is evidence and theory not FACT as you claim all of your junk to be.



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