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Al-Zarqawi Dead

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posted on Jun, 8 2006 @ 06:49 PM
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Good question infinite8, good question, we already know how well US will pay for information and capture of most wanted.

No doubt that the insurgency will do well with any type of money coming from any type of sources.

Zarqawi was not favorite of Al-qaida nor Bin laden, so one death insurgent leader is of no consequences when it comes to the ideologies that the different groups that form the Iraqi and middle east nations are seeking for their personal agendas.

I see it more as bribery than anything else.




posted on Jun, 8 2006 @ 08:57 PM
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I've got a far more interesting question to debate.

Allow us to assume, at least for a while, that Zarqawi WAS in fact, a very evil man who enjoyed car bombs, beheading kidnap victims, and long walks on the beach. Also, let us assume he was in fact in charge of one of (certainly not the only, but one of) the more ruthless orginizations in Iraq, and is now quite dead.

A nice little note at the tail end of most of those reports has been that he was betrayed from within his own orginisation. I'd like to discuss this portion alone as a potentially useful fabrication or exageration. The head of that orginization has just been eliminated, along with his spiritual leader. What's left of the orginisation must now reorginise to decide how best to proceed from here. The only catch, one of the people involved MAY be the one who sold him out. One of the canidates may be a traitor.


If completely fabricated, then such a detail in a report serves as a useful inhibiter to the proverbial Hydra regrowing that head. In fact, it's the ultimate poisened pill. If completely fabricated, the remainder of his group will likely tear themselves apart looking for the traitor.

On the other hand, assuming it's completely true, and not even exagerated, one has to wonder about the whole 'protection of sources' bit. Unless arangements have already been made with the informant.

My only remaining question or avenue of speculation is the possible motives for 'betraying' Zarqawi. Loyalties to a competing insurgency group? growing distaste of his leadership? An 'inside job' to act as a fundraiser for Al-Quaida in Iraq? Disillusionment with 'the cause"?

Discerning the truth is a much more interesting game when you belive most of the pieces aren't just lies thrown in to blind you. I like to assume all the pieces either fit, or have been created for a reason. (which still makes them fit)



posted on Jun, 8 2006 @ 10:03 PM
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Originally posted by subz

Originally posted by semperfortis
And jsobecky,
If someone invents a new peanut butter and jelly sandwich, some on here are going to say it was planned so that the republicans can get elected.

It really is just funny.

Who says this is about Republicans? I wouldnt flatter them with the attention. Republican, democrat, liberal democrat, labo(u)r, liberal, they are all singing from the same hymn sheet. The timing is aimed at boosting flagging support for the so-called "war on terror". It timing has little to do with US elections as a Democratic president will continue with the police state just as much as a Republican President would.

Entrenched partisanism, what a waste of brain cells.


way above top secret for subz, thats all I can say at this time, still reading the thread.



posted on Jun, 8 2006 @ 10:04 PM
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All I have to say is woohoo.... for a few billion dollars we managed to off a guy that used to work at a video store....

I feel so much better about paying taxes now that we killed the arab equivelant of the stoner dude that rents me movies at blockbuster.

FOr those of you that are happy I congratulate you, remember that happiness next time you see a homeless guy and start thinking how many meals a few hundred million worth of munitions would buy him



posted on Jun, 8 2006 @ 10:13 PM
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by the end of page 3 I couldn't read this thread anymore is was just too much waste of a time. people insulting back and force about how they are terrorists buddies or buying into the BS from the pentagon, Im leaving this thread now, bye.

[edit on 8-6-2006 by grimreaper797]



posted on Jun, 8 2006 @ 10:33 PM
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This is very good news, but as usual, the libs can't stand that the war may actually be going a lot better than they thought, so they have to claim the Pentagon is lying. They are not going to lie about something like this; when the Iraq War first started and they thought they'd killed Saddam Hussein, it wasn't confirmed until they knew for sure, and it was confirmed that he was not killed.



posted on Jun, 9 2006 @ 12:16 AM
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Originally posted by yanchek
All that talk and cheering about Zarkawi but non of the woman and a child killed. They are not important. They are just another 'collateral damage".

I find this lack of compasion disturbing.


Why no prayer from you for this child at the end of your statement, yet a stab at the US with "collateral damage"? My apologies if wrong but your wording seems political not compassionate.

I'm sorry for the child...but your logic fails you. How many kids did Zarqawi kill with his bombs? Was one more child's death not worth saving hundreds more?

Why was the woman who had this child, supporting someone hated not only by the US but by most of the people of Iraq? I question this woman's caring for her child to allow someone like this to even stay at her house...or even be in Zarqawi's company. Perhaps the woman is innocent also, but I find it unlikely.

I think only the sickest would wish the death of a child, this was not an attack on the woman or child. Believe me, the soldiers are incredibly scarred when seeing the death of children in war. I had an ex co-worker who had psychological issues from his time in the military and seeing dead children. It hurts everyone. God has this child now, and unfortunately many more children coming too soon from Iraq.



posted on Jun, 9 2006 @ 12:41 AM
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The death of any innocent civilian is always a tragic loss.

It will be interesting to see what comes about from this loss of leadership for the insurgency. There could be much in fact to gain by the removal of Al-Zarqawi. As criticized by Bin Laden, al Zarqawi removed a lot of the potential insurgency recruits by bombing mosques and killing his own people in the hotel bombings. Its just not an effective way of leadership when you need as much help as possible. I am glad he has been removed, but fear what could be next. Hopefully this is the beginning of the end, but that is wishful thinking.



posted on Jun, 9 2006 @ 04:41 AM
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The violence in Iraq will not stop as a result of Zarqawi's death; everyone realizes that. There are murders already in the pipeline that will be carried out during the next few weeks, and there will be retaliatory attacks.

But Zarqawi was a major antagonist of Iraqi-upon-Iraqi violence. He promoted sectarian vilence; he did very little attacking of coalition troops in his final months. He had to do what he was capable of doing; murdering innocent women and children, not standing up to coalition forces.

Hopefully the Iraqi people will see less sectarian violence as a result of the elimination of this vermin.



posted on Jun, 9 2006 @ 05:02 AM
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Originally posted by Blaine91555
Are you a US citizen?

No.



European citizen?

Yes.



Middle Eastern citizen?

No.



Are you Muslim?

No.



Is this an anti-government thing or an anti-Republican thing?

Anti-NWO-Anti-GlobalElite-Anti-Fascist thingy.



Do you believe that Islamic extremists don’t exist or pose no threat to us or is it an anti-war stance in general?

I belive that the majority of Islamic extreists are actually funded and created by the same guys who want the War on Terror to Everlast. Like Al-Qaeda for example. Or Osama Been Hiding. Or the deceased Al-Zarqawi. They are all basicly products of a immense and very effective PR machine, which is designed to keep people in fear and most of all cotrolled.



What is your solution to the current problems in the Middle East?

Live and Let Live.



Even more important, do you consider yourself an anarchist?

No. I consider myself as a Freedom Lover.



You would consider me part of the “black and white” crowd as I tend to be very pragmatic in my views.

Well there are MANY shades of Grey in this World - I suggest you put those Black'n'White glasses off before it is too late. Or maybe it is already too late.



I do not see how faking this death would in any way benefit Bush or Blair as it would surely be exposed in short order.

It is about faking the Super-Terrorist-Master-Minds. I see no reason why I should belive that they even exist(ed). Why? Because they are going to show me that fingerprints, tatoos and scars match? And? Like I SEEN them! See, they can make up each and every story, and you still will belive them - but how can you, if there is no proof whatsoever. It is a great Illusion. And you will see how Bush and Blair will glorfy this event and maybe increase their ratings among the public a little bit.

It is all Business my friend - nothing more, nothing less.

[quoteg
Why would Al-Qaida lie about his death? What would UBL have to gain by faking this mans death?

As I said before - Al-Qaeda is probably the biggest international Con even produced. Yes, there is a network called "Al-Qaeda", but you have to ask yourself if it is really run by Islamist Extremists who want to create a Caliphate and introduce Sharia Law to each and every city on this world.



Since we have no information regarding where Abu Musab al-Zarqawi was standing (or sitting or lying) when the bombs struck and since we don’t know how accurate the placement of the bombs were in relationship to his exact location; how could anyone know how badly to expect the body to be damaged or undamaged? Wouldn’t claiming the body was destroyed beyond recognition be more suspicious than laying it out for the whole world to see.

Well you have just answered yourself; when creating a PR trick for public, you have to give them something good enough, that they will swallow it. If they bombed a house, and said they killed Zarqawi, plus one Woman and Child and a couple of his closest Guards without any pictures, would it be any Convincing? So you see, they went one step beyond, and put a neat-o picture in a wonderful frame, so each and everybody can see the Face of a notorious Super-Terrorist. Man, I have seen Hollywood movies with better plots!



Do you think it was wrong to kill this self confessed butcher of his own people? If so, why? Were his atrocities justified?

How do you know it was "His Attrocities"? Nobody knows what - a bomb went off, and this dude comes out of nowhere and claims the responsiblity. What I know is tha Al-Qaeda is Not what they want you to see it is. Zarqawi was maybe really alive but he was definetly a patsy or an agent provocatour, designed to further divide and rule the Middle East. But tell me this; who gains from his "Attacks?" The people of Middle East, which will be doing all the Dying and the Killing and the Crying? Or SOMEBODY from deep behind enemy lines, who is doing all the string-pulling and all the money-counting?

[edit on 9/6/06 by Souljah]



posted on Jun, 9 2006 @ 05:17 AM
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They "claim" they had been watching him for 6 weeks?

Why did they choose to bomb him and not just shoot him then? Or was they waiting to take out as many of his "gang" as possible along with him?

Thanks






posted on Jun, 9 2006 @ 05:57 AM
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Originally posted by grimreaper797
way above top secret for subz, thats all I can say at this time, still reading the thread.

Thanks



posted on Jun, 9 2006 @ 06:21 AM
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They didn't say they were watching him for weeks, they said they'd been working on trying to get him, rather, that this particular string of events that DID get him, took a matter of weeks. It was only at the very end they recieved the tip of exactly where to find him. The reports I heard were also to the effect that they couldn't get ground troops there fast enough to be certain not to allow him to escape. After all, F-16s are faster than trucks.



posted on Jun, 9 2006 @ 07:20 AM
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Associated Press

As President Bush and Iraqi leaders on Thursday welcomed the announcement that coalition forces had killed Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, some in the anti-war community used the development to call for troop withdrawals while others downplayed its significance.

He called Zarqawi's killing "another sign that it's time for Iraqis to stand up for Iraq ... and run their own country." He said American troops "have done their job in Iraq, and they've done it valiantly. It's time to work with the new Iraqi government to bring our combat troops home by the end of this year."

U.S. Rep. John Murtha, the Pennsylvania Democrat who on May 18 said "we have done everything we can do militarily in Iraq," said Thursday in a statement that the death of Zarqawi would "have a significant impact in reducing the amount of violence in Iraq."

Yeah Sure they will pull the troops back.

It is just to improve the current Ratings - not to get the troops home.

Mister Tony Snow said - it is going to be a LONG War...



posted on Jun, 9 2006 @ 08:26 AM
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Originally posted by Souljah

Originally posted by Blaine91555
Are you a US citizen?

No.

Blaine91555

Souljah is from Slovenia.



As I said before - Al-Qaeda is probably the biggest international Con even produced. Yes, there is a network called "Al-Qaeda", but you have to ask yourself if it is really run by Islamist Extremists who want to create a Caliphate and introduce Sharia Law to each and every city on this world.

Well then, maybe you can illuminate us as to who really runs al Qaeda?



Since we have no information regarding where Abu Musab al-Zarqawi was standing (or sitting or lying) when the bombs struck and since we don’t know how accurate the placement of the bombs were in relationship to his exact location; how could anyone know how badly to expect the body to be damaged or undamaged? Wouldn’t claiming the body was destroyed beyond recognition be more suspicious than laying it out for the whole world to see.

The body was as expected. In an explosion such as this, you can expect the structure, which is very rigid, to be blasted to pieces. A human body will suffer effects from flying debris and concussion. Only if it is a direct hit to the body will it be disintegrated. The human boday is remarkably flexible.



How do you know it was "His Attrocities"? Nobody knows what - a bomb went off, and this dude comes out of nowhere and claims the responsiblity. What I know is tha Al-Qaeda is Not what they want you to see it is. Zarqawi was maybe really alive but he was definetly a patsy or an agent provocatour, designed to further divide and rule the Middle East.


Once again, please enlighten us as to the makeup and objectives of al Qaeda.


But tell me this; who gains from his "Attacks?" The people of Middle East, which will be doing all the Dying and the Killing and the Crying? Or SOMEBODY from deep behind enemy lines, who is doing all the string-pulling and all the money-counting?

The terrorist network, which are threatened by stability and order. That is why Zarqawi constanly promoted sectarian violence. He has(d) no place in a decent society. He was jailed for his attempts to overthrow his own gov't of Jordan. He even attacked a wedding party in Amman.

Even bin Laden and Zawahiri cautioned him to rein in his violence. He would not; he met his just end. Good riddance to him.



posted on Jun, 9 2006 @ 08:35 AM
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He was not dead when the armed forces got to him, he tried to escape off the stretcher, then died.



posted on Jun, 9 2006 @ 08:42 AM
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Here's the link:




Zarqawi was alive after bombing: US general

Abu Musab al-Zarqawi was alive and made a move to escape when U.S. troops reached the leader of al Qaeda in Iraq, mortally wounded in an American bombing raid, a U.S. general said on Friday.

"We were not aware yesterday that in fact, Zarqawi was alive when U.S. forces arrived on the site," Maj. Gen. William Caldwell, the spokesman for the U.S. military in Baghdad, told Fox News.

More...



Huh????
Two 500lb bombs and he survived- however short?????



posted on Jun, 9 2006 @ 09:28 AM
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Originally posted by WheelsRCool
This is very good news, but as usual, the libs can't stand that the war may actually be going a lot better than they thought, so they have to claim the Pentagon is lying. They are not going to lie about something like this; when the Iraq War first started and they thought they'd killed Saddam Hussein, it wasn't confirmed until they knew for sure, and it was confirmed that he was not killed.


GOD DAMN IT, warn me if you want but WHAT THE HELL IS EVERYONES PROBLEM lately!! its like we cant stay off of bashing political bases for more then 5 minutes. I cant get through an entire thread without "as usual the liberals are being anti patriotic" or "those liberals will come to that cowards rescue" or "those bush supporters are idiots," its freaking amazing how much people like wheels can try to practically derail a subject by political bashing and ridicule, yet no mods look at it twice. LIBERALS HAVE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS, so leave them out. This is about whether we actually killed a terrorist or not, and why. I dont want to hear ANYTHING about how "the liberals are going to act like this didnt happen because it would hurt their anti war efforts" that has NOTHING to do with this, leave it out.

seriously Ive got to talk to SO because this is getting out of hand.



posted on Jun, 9 2006 @ 09:37 AM
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Originally posted by grimreaper797

Originally posted by WheelsRCool
This is very good news, but as usual, the libs can't stand that the war may actually be going a lot better than they thought, so they have to claim the Pentagon is lying. They are not going to lie about something like this; when the Iraq War first started and they thought they'd killed Saddam Hussein, it wasn't confirmed until they knew for sure, and it was confirmed that he was not killed.


GOD DAMN IT, warn me if you want but WHAT THE HELL IS EVERYONES PROBLEM lately!! its like we cant stay off of bashing political bases for more then 5 minutes. I cant get through an entire thread without "as usual the liberals are being anti patriotic" or "those liberals will come to that cowards rescue" or "those bush supporters are idiots," its freaking amazing how much people like wheels can try to practically derail a subject by political bashing and ridicule, yet no mods look at it twice. LIBERALS HAVE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS, so leave them out. This is about whether we actually killed a terrorist or not, and why. I dont want to hear ANYTHING about how "the liberals are going to act like this didnt happen because it would hurt their anti war efforts" that has NOTHING to do with this, leave it out.

seriously Ive got to talk to SO because this is getting out of hand.


you gotta seriously calm down before you have a heart attack. if this person is breaking to rules i'm sure they will get told so. no need for you to fall over dead at the keyboard dude.

it is unlikely that he really tried to "escape" from the stretcher. if he died that quickly afterwards it was probably his nerves and adrenaline making him twitch and flop around like a fish off the stretcher.



posted on Jun, 9 2006 @ 09:41 AM
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no thats probably the first outburst ive had on this board. Im just getting so sick and tired of coming into 90% of the threads and seeing some sort of political bashing.



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