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Army Officer Refuses To Go To War

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posted on Jun, 8 2006 @ 12:09 AM
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Originally posted by notbuynit
Another example of neolib influence. He would send his men to do something he didn't have the guts to do himself. Where was my choice on Bosnia or Somalia? Where were you hypocrites? I don't remember any protests when my best friend was being killed in Mogadishu. Where were you? Bombing folks in Bosnia?You weren't told to dissent, that's where you were. Whether he agrees or not. Coward.


Damn straight!


I've seen a trend in the U.S. where the only time they protest, or disagree with military action is when it's the "cool" and "popular" thing to do. Otherwise, meh, who cares.




posted on Jun, 8 2006 @ 12:14 AM
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"I,____________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to the regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God"

The President and Commander in Chief has blatantly violated all tenets of domestic and international law. So that making an oath to "obey orders from the President" is tantamount to violating rather than defending the US Constitution.

From:
www.globalresearch.ca...

....I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic....
That part got me thinking he has a right not to go according to the circumstances.



posted on Jun, 8 2006 @ 12:21 AM
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I support him 100%

Theres a line to draw between following orders and doing what is right.
Officers in Nazi Germany were tried under war crimes for their involvement.

What this man is doing is attempting to save his honor by not being placed in such a predicament

Even though the men in nazi german were just following orders they were still tried because when it comes down to it they were the only ones responsible for their actions.

edit:
I hope more people follow his lead.

[edit on 8-6-2006 by wondernut]



posted on Jun, 8 2006 @ 12:26 AM
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I don't know about this guy, but how would you feel about this. If I joined the army for free college and boarding, and world war three was on the verge. Your tax paying dollars where going to my wallet to send me over seas to protect your loved ones and family. When you join the army you know there is a high chance you may fight in a battle, and possible you can die. Then I say you know what, screw it, I will just leave the country. All of your hard earned tax paying money went to me, while you could have been using that money to stock up on supplies for you and your family.

This Guy Joined The Army After The War, What Did He Expect?
He was also a L.T. in the army, and he let his men down who are all going over there to fight.



posted on Jun, 8 2006 @ 12:29 AM
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If you dont agree with the war then fine, protest it, no biggie. There was no Draft, no one drafted this guy to the Army. It was his free will, and he used our tax paying money. That is like going to a job and doing nothing, and still collecting money from people, that is stealing!!!

You want to protest the war and your honor, dont join the MILITARY!!!
He is a coward, thats the real reason he is backing out, or he is stupid.



posted on Jun, 8 2006 @ 12:30 AM
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You have voted notbuynit for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.


nice post.... it's funny whenever there is a war like this under an unpopular administration the SOLDIERS pay for it by being protested etc.

I remember the stories of my friends whose fathers came home after being a POW in vietnam.

They had their finger nails pulled out, beaten with rattan canes, bamboo shoots shoved where their fingernails HAD been. and many starved to death or died from the beatings.

an infamous american personally got 6 POWs killed by her treason, hanoi jane.

she turned the slips of paper the men had slipped her with their social security numbers on them over to the guards


yet when those men who suffered those things came home, they met at the airport by people, now these people are the HEROS mind you, they have a conscience


they spit on these men, called them "baby killers", and beat these men in the streets.

This man should be drummed out of the military in disgrace, no benefits nothing...

I agree completely COWARD!....



posted on Jun, 8 2006 @ 12:42 AM
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XphilesPhan welcome to the new America. Should have seen the DU thread, I was getting called a murderer, and noone stepped in to stop it.



posted on Jun, 8 2006 @ 02:46 AM
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Pawnplayer:



There's no war in Iraq anymore. * * *


Same line. Different thread.

Tell that to the Iraqis whose friends, acquaintances, grandparents, parents. siblings, and children are being killed. They might disagree.

[edit on 6/8/2006 by dubiousone]



posted on Jun, 8 2006 @ 03:13 AM
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I think that you should have a mind of your own, and be allowed to think.
Yes even withing the military


If someone tells you to kill for ex. women and children you should have a right to refuse orders. If you know your superior officer is giving you orders that break one or more laws of course you should have a right to refuse.. or to take that man out of charge..



posted on Jun, 8 2006 @ 03:45 AM
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Originally posted by SilverSurfer
I think that you should have a mind of your own, and be allowed to think.
Yes even withing the military


If someone tells you to kill for ex. women and children you should have a right to refuse orders. If you know your superior officer is giving you orders that break one or more laws of course you should have a right to refuse.. or to take that man out of charge..


Yeah, we go over there and just grease the crap out of them. Come on. You've got to be kidding me. I'm not saying civilians don't get killed, but you're acting like we target them. 1 TOUR in Afganistan, 2 TOURS in Iraq, and in all that time, not once was I ever ordered to target civilians. Do you see that, do you grasp that? You taking several incidents and damning the military's actions and conduct as a whole is no different than me saying ALL AMERICANS are bigots cause they TARGETED arabs after 9-11 and attacked them. So how's it feel bigot? Can't lump me in that group, wanna know why? I'M ARAB, so why in the holy hell would I kill people from the land I came from, if they we're innocent? Explain that to me buddy. Had I been told such an order, the man giving it would have been shot. If you wanna know the root causes behind Haditha then keep your eyes for a topic I'll post about it. And trust me, it'll be worth it, and it'll suprise you. By no means is it pro Bush, pro military, or pro leftist, if you can grasp that too.

You wanna blame someone for the so called "illegal war" in Iraq, then blame your godamned Presidents, senators, ect and yourselves, cause no matter how much you whine, and protest, you still suck up all the oil people die, and are enslaved for. Sleep at night on that one friend, cause it's the truth, oh what, this isn't what CNN tells you? Not what inforwars tells you? Too bad, cause while you think your doing something about the war, all you're really doing is, whining on the internet, and continuing the problem. Why is that? Cause the countries in the mideast should have one of the highest standards of living due to the oil riches, but why do the people suffer? Cause the Clintions, Bushes, Regans, Kerrys, Kennedys, Delays, all help prop up middle eastern leaders that steal from the people, FOR YOU. AND YOU LOVE IT. Wars are fought for many reasons, the number one, of all time, being money, call it land, oil, or whatever, in the end it's all about the money.



posted on Jun, 8 2006 @ 03:52 AM
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Kudos to the guy for standing up for his beliefs....but I mean dude, you do realize that going to war can be part of your time in the military.


CX

posted on Jun, 8 2006 @ 03:58 AM
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I can't remember the exact paragraph and section of the Army Act that stated it, but i know when i was serving, we were always told that you were within your rights not to carry out an unreasonable order. By that they meant something serious like, "Go and shoot that guy over there that has just illegaly parked". Especially if you thought the order was unlawful and would go agaist the laws of the land.

I'll look later for the written laws on this, but how would a court martial decide on what someone thoight was unlawfull? Everyone has thier own opinions and whilst there is so much controversy over the intel leading to the Iraq invasion, why should'nt a soldier think he is doing something that is wrong?

CX.



posted on Jun, 8 2006 @ 04:12 AM
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Originally posted by XphilesPhan
You have voted notbuynit for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.


nice post.... it's funny whenever there is a war like this under an unpopular administration the SOLDIERS pay for it by being protested etc.

I remember the stories of my friends whose fathers came home after being a POW in vietnam.

They had their finger nails pulled out, beaten with rattan canes, bamboo shoots shoved where their fingernails HAD been. and many starved to death or died from the beatings.

an infamous american personally got 6 POWs killed by her treason, hanoi jane.

she turned the slips of paper the men had slipped her with their social security numbers on them over to the guards


yet when those men who suffered those things came home, they met at the airport by people, now these people are the HEROS mind you, they have a conscience


they spit on these men, called them "baby killers", and beat these men in the streets.

This man should be drummed out of the military in disgrace, no benefits nothing...

I agree completely COWARD!....



What a line of crap. You know this is the biggest myth of ALL TIME in Viet Nam lore? You weren't there,X Philes. It's a nice try. One golf clap for you. You can't even draw one picture of this act occurring. Jesus, I can't believe you can fall for such urban legend. It kind of proves to me you are lacking in the research department. Stripping credibility away is so fun. This schtick is old. get a new one.



Let's see where it came from shall we?

www.vvaw.org...





"Many of the current stories are accompanied by stories of spat-upon Vietnam veterans. The recent story of spitting in Asheville, for example, was traced to a local businessman who says he is a veteran who was also spat upon and called a "baby killer" when he returned from Vietnam. An Associated Press story of April 9 reported stories of spat-upon Vietnam veterans surfacing in several cities including Spicer, Minnesota whose mayor said he was spat upon in the San Francisco airport while coming home from Vietnam in 1971."





Lembecke has a tad more cred than you I am afraid or your "Friend of a friend" "You remember the stories" Well, I guess that finalizes it.
How naive can you be? Do some research next time before you spout urban legend. There is NO proof of this airport incident whatsoever. Because it was fabricated to get you in a jingoistic mood and tapdance in the G.O.P. Minstrel show. Think of yourself as Scott Jolson. "MAAAAMI" That is you and you don't even know it. It was a psy op tactic to get you outraged. So Gullible.



And one more nail into your coffin for the most possible lamest rumor of all time. It doesn't even make sense AND yet you bought it. But next time R-E-S-E-A-R-C-H

www.towardfreedom.com...



BTW just so we are on the level you take any particular story and Urbanize it just for leverage to get people in a rage. Did the spitting occur? Maybe but not in these numbers you are talking about.

And you know what's funny? Why is it so many express this theatrical dinner theater anger like it's valid? Because you heard a story? Where's your proof? We can find a irregular incident in any political agenda. And yet here it is this jingoistic schtick outrage about incidents. Stop trying to polarize every little thing. You are shucking n jiving because that's all you can do. You want to react emotionally to something you were never a part of.

And btw alot Vietnam Veterans were protesting over Vietnam alot of important issues such as Agent Orange. Things that you would rather scrub over and forget about. That's what being a patriot is about. Speaking truth to power. Anyone can soapbox outrage and make angry emoticons on this board all day and blame it on "political agenda"













[edit on 8-6-2006 by MRGERBIK]



posted on Jun, 8 2006 @ 04:38 AM
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Originally posted by MRGERBIK

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
You have voted notbuynit for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.
.

I agree completely COWARD!....



What a line of crap. You know this is the biggest myth of ALL TIME in Viet Nam lore? You weren't there,X Philes. It's a nice try. One golf clap for you. You can't even draw one photo of this act occurring. Jesus, I can't believe you can fall for such urban legend. It kind of proves to me you are lacking in the research department. Stripping credibility away is so fun. This schtick is old.



Let's see where it came from shall we?

www.vvaw.org...





"Many of the current stories are accompanied by stories of spat-upon Vietnam veterans. The recent story of spitting in Asheville, for example, was traced to a local businessman who says he is a veteran who was also spat upon and called a "baby killer" when he returned from Vietnam. An Associated Press story of April 9 reported stories of spat-upon Vietnam veterans surfacing in several cities including Spicer, Minnesota whose mayor said he was spat upon in the San Francisco airport while coming home from Vietnam in 1971."





Lembecke has a tad more cred than you I am afraid or your "Friend of a friend" "You remember the stories" Well, I guess that finalizes it.

How naive can you be? Do some research next time before you spout urban legend. There is NO proof of this airport incident whatsoever. Because it was fabricated to get you in a jingoistic mood and tapdance in the G.O.P. Minstrel show. Think of yourself as Scott Jolson. "MAAAAMI" That is you and you don't even know it. It was a psy op tactic to get you outraged. So Gullible.



And one more nail into your coffin for the most possible lamest rumor of all time. It doesn't even make sense AND yet you bought it.

www.towardfreedom.com...



BTW just so we are on the level you take any particular story and Urbanize it just for leverage to get people in a rage. Did the spitting occur? Maybe but not in these numbers you are talking about.

And you know what's funny? Why is it so many express this theatrical dinner theater anger like it's valid? Because you heard a story? Where's your proof? We can find a irregular incident in any political agenda. And yet here it is this jingoistic schtick outrage about incidents. Stop trying to polarize every little thing. You are shucking n jiving because that's all you can do. You want to react emotionally to something you were never a part of.

And btw alot Vietnam Veterans were protesting over Vietnam alot of important issues such as Agent Orange. Things that you would rather scrub over and forget about. That's what being a patriot is about. Speaking truth to power. Anyone can soapbox outrage and make angry emoticons on this board all day and blame it on "political agenda"

I challenge you show me one photo of this airport incident. A word of advice
on't beat a dead horse. This has been debunked so many times. Unless you want to show me a airbrushed photo of John Kerry and Jane Fonda. Which Jerome Corsi admitted to photoshopping.

This is such bad theatric schtick and for shame those who applaud and make thumbs up icons to it. Let the Armchair Warrior reign cease.



posted on Jun, 8 2006 @ 04:58 AM
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Eventhough I agree that any and every soldier should have the right to object to a war that has so much evidence against its legality, I can't help but wonder about the following.

The guy enlisted in 2003?
Hes a US Military Officer in 2006.

Now the first time hes supposed to goto Iraq he turns up a media circus?

This to me sounds like 1 of 2 things.

Either the guy enlisted in 2003, kept out of Iraq untill he became an officer and started this controversy as an officer refusing to goto Iraq on purpouse (premeditated).

Or he was hoping in 2003 that he never had to goto Iraq and could aid his country in the other activities the US military is in.

If its the first one, I goto say it sickens me and hope he gets courtmartialed.

Joining the force with no intention of being part in it but with all intention to protest it is about as low as it gets imho. It also totaly overclouds the few good men that join the force with the best of intentions to serve their country and people and that become convinced after some time that the war they will be sent to is wrong to them.



posted on Jun, 8 2006 @ 05:23 AM
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How do you call a man who served our country in the Korean War a coward?
Apparently he's one of these old-timers that got reactivated.More power to him. He should be retiring and enjoying what he's worked for, instead of having to worry about being blown up by some ied while looking for non-existant WMD's in a dust bowl.He might as well enjoy his Social Security now while its still there since they are throwing all this money into that endless latrine in the middle east. Coward? I think not.


Pie



posted on Jun, 8 2006 @ 05:58 AM
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PieMan, I think you got it a little wrong. Im pretty sure he just served in Korea, he was not fighting in the Korean war, that was back in the 1950's.

Seeing this is kind of strange, just yesterday I was watch AFN (Armed Forces Network) and there was a commercal on about how it is wrong for officers to speak out against Americas leaders. It is really bad, when you here and officer say something that would decrease moral. I would not be happy about following orders of an officer who tried to refuse to go to Iraq on the battle feild. What am I supposed to think? "You want me to run out there? Didn't you try to refuse to come over here?"

But give the guy credit for standing up for what he believes in. Do you know what a dishonerable discharge is going to look like on his record? This kind of thing makes the military look bad.



posted on Jun, 8 2006 @ 05:59 AM
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ThePieMan, you aughta read the article.

He served in Korea, enlisted in 2003, is 28 years old.

He didn't serve in the "Korean War".



posted on Jun, 8 2006 @ 06:19 AM
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Originally posted by ProjectX1986
If you dont agree with the war then fine, protest it, no biggie. There was no Draft, no one drafted this guy to the Army. It was his free will, and he used our tax paying money. That is like going to a job and doing nothing, and still collecting money from people, that is stealing!!!

You want to protest the war and your honor, dont join the MILITARY!!!
He is a coward, thats the real reason he is backing out, or he is stupid.


Exactly!
If he does not want to go, then fine. That is a personal matter and the problem I have is making it a political statement and putting it all over the wires. He is trying to make a statement here and he has already made one by joining. Now he changes his mind?

Stinks of someone wanting his 15 minutes of fame.



posted on Jun, 8 2006 @ 09:44 AM
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I believe the officer has a right not to go.

But he must face the consequences of those actions with a possible court martial and prision time. Instead of trying to resign his commission for the easy way out.

Signing up for military service might put you in a situation that you personally find wrong or immoral, but 99% of the other people might think otherwise of that situation. Staying by your convictions is usually the hard way to go, for the correct one stand in your eyes.

We do not need someone in a leadership position that could possibly put troops under his control in a war situation that could endanger those troops.

If this person is trying to use the media to try to get out of the Army then he loses credibilty in my eyes.



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