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Greater Economic Link Between the USA and the EU?

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posted on Jun, 7 2006 @ 09:14 AM
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Hague call for Euro-US trade zone

The Conservatives will "do whatever is necessary" to realise their goal of a transatlantic free trade zone, says shadow foreign secretary William Hague.

Mr Hague says he is not ruling out rewriting the Treaty of Rome - the deal creating the EU's forerunners.

The UK should be championing efforts to break down trade barriers between the US and Europe, he argued.


Well could this be the future I ask, or simply a mere pipe dream?

A closer economic link between Europe and the USA, a free trade union between two of the major global entities.

The pro-EU and pro-USA factions of each side will more than likely resist such an economic union, free trade will open up greater competition, which will no doubt lead to "those damn Americans are ruining the livelihood of our farmers with their mass agricultural plains" and "those damn Europeans are putting our beer makers out of business with their crazy foreign beer"...or the such like.


But in theory, America should welcome such an economic alliance, as capitalism is ingrained in their society at a level greater than anywhere else in the world.
Several European countries on the other hand, France leaping to mind, would stereotypically oppose the idea as they have a very protectionist mentality towards their economies.

Then there's the ''how come they get to subsidy their farmers more its unfair competition in a free trade enviroment'' and the such like.

Then of course there is the issue of the USA and the EU not really being best of buds at the moment, they appear to be heading towards the image of counter weighing each other rather than any type of drawn up economic union.
The cultures of main land Europe and the USA are extremely different, the again the USA and the UK aren't exactly clones now are they
, with different moral and cultural opinions, any economic union could be doomed from the word go, then again such a union could benefit each side not just on a economic scale but on a much higher and rewarding scale.

Would it work, I doubt it, would I like to see it, yes I think I would.




[edit on 7-6-2006 by Prometheus James]




posted on Jun, 7 2006 @ 02:23 PM
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If the tory party had a history of positive and productive engagement with 'Europe' and the EU as well as the US and of attempting to bridge the Atlantic and enable this 'economic link' they claim to desire then I might give the story a little more credibility.

As it is the UK tory party have a long history of very poor and desperately unproductive relations in Europe as well as, surprisingly, the USA recently (Bush has refused to meet the recently departed ex-tory leader Michael Howard).

But the idea of a transatlantic 'bridge is actually nothing especially new.
Tony Blair has spoken often about the UK being a bridge between the EU and USA.

But if Hague and the tory party think that the actuality of a treaty based formal economic link between the 25+ nation EU and the USA - with a formal economic union in the shape of NAFTA of her own to consider the implications of this with too - is merely a matter of some easy sounding words then they are sadly mistaken.
Such a link would take a damned sight more than one of Hague's typically superficial speeches and, I suspect, the British tory party would be about the last people anyone else in the EU would listen to over this matter.

Hague - the 2nd most anti-EU leader the tory party have ever had - and his claims of doing "whatever is necessary" are about as empty and meaningless as could possibly be.
It certainly doesn't mean theBritish tory party becoming an enthusiast for the EU.
The EU will not be rewriting the Treaty of Rome on the British tory parties' say so any time soon, you could bet the house on that.

To put it bluntly the tory front bench could offer to paint their arses red, white and blue and parade down every capital city in the EU and I doubt many would care.

To tell you the truth when considered along with the current tory positions on the EU I'd say that it is far more likely that this is just the usual anti-EU and divisive tory stuff.

They are always preferring to looking west to the US and with disdain on the EU.

They prefer to look to the US (where 'we' have no voting rights and not half as much influence as 'we' like to flatter ourselves that we do) and that strange backward looking version of 'British' interests - everything goes back to a version of what they think happened in WW2 with them - instead of to today's EU.
An EU of which we are actually, by international treaty, a full member, with full voting rights and a major say and with whom we have actual legal formal ties and real concrete interests.


[edit on 7-6-2006 by sminkeypinkey]



posted on Jun, 8 2006 @ 10:09 AM
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sminkeypinkey I'm thinking your a closest Thatcher supporter who is merely concealing his support for the Conservative Party through a veil of Labour Party support...


Right, ok, I'll rephrase what I said in my first post...

Imagine for a second that it wasn't the Conservative Party that proposed the idea, but rather a mere idea not linked to a political party.

Could it work...

Should it work...

Do you want it to work...



posted on Jun, 8 2006 @ 11:28 AM
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PJ if I were a closet tory I'd make a much better job of 'promoting them' that way.
I grew up with them and I know the truth of what so many of them really are and rarely let show (and Hague's comments are about as cuddly as they can make them but it still boils down to an incorrigible anti-EU stance that really would prefer to see the EU destroyed so as not to challenge in any way US interests, for some weird reason).


Originally posted by Prometheus James
Could it work...


- In the very long term probably.
But I think each of us could do with sorting out the more pressing needs of our own more local arrangements.

That and the usual round(s) of rows and spats we seem to have from time to time via the WTO.
I'm not sure there is sufficient obvious common interest just yet to make it credible.


Should it work...


- Given time and a genuine willingness to actually collaborate and cooperate I see no reason why not.

In fact I'd say that in a world of finite resources and enormous environmental and ecological problems it is probably going to have to happen at some point.


Do you want it to work...


- In the long term (for the reasons mentioned above) yes, of course.

In the short-term I suppose that depends upon the terms.
Much as I think open markets are probably the best overall choice out of what is possible I'm not so blinkered as to imagine everything can (or even should) operate within the parameters of the 'free market'; particularly if that means at the expense of the 'local market'.

We have to have a degree of 'protectionism' for good strategic reasoning.
Farming is a single obvious and large case in point.
'We' aren't going to be come completely dependant on 'you' (or anyone else) for foodstuffs anymore than you would with us (or anyone else).

'We' aren't enamoured with the current vogue for trying to 'outsource' everything, mainly because 'we' don't believe that either desirable or always possible.

I think we have such a long way to go on this concept that this really is just an example of coded trouble-making and simply boils down to tory anti-EU kite-flying, horribly superficial nonsense that kind of sounds like it might be ok until a few seconds pass and it is looked at with a critical eye for the practical difficulties and the realities it would face.

The tory party think that they might have a handful of 'allies' in the latest new entrant countries, my bet is that will last right up until the moment that it dawns on those 'new countries' that they really are dealing with ideologically driven people crazy enough to truely desire to see the EU diminish and grow ever more powerless, leaving us all open to the full and unaffected strength of US business.
At that point the tory party will assume their usual 'label' - but now one with all in the EU - that they have have nothing to say anyone else in the EU would give a monkeys about.

If you really imagine the British tory party have any persuasive ability in the EU (with their history) I'd say you're kidding yourself.



[edit on 8-6-2006 by sminkeypinkey]



posted on Jun, 11 2006 @ 07:10 PM
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Putting aside the rants of the British Edsinger, this might be a good idea. Anything that facilitates trade between regions will be good for the economy. Breaking down trade barriers will allow commerce between the nations to flow more freely and hopefully lead to a fairer trade system throughout the world.



posted on Jun, 12 2006 @ 01:36 PM
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Originally posted by Chris McGee
Putting aside the rants of the British Edsinger


- Oh Chris, so disappointing, I expected better than that.
Silly me, my bad.

You'll find I'm hardly alone in the sort of criticism(s) I have made - they're pretty mainstream, not exactly from the political extreme.

Come on, it's laughable to try and dispute the fact of how low is the general 'regard' that the British tory party is held in in Europe today.

To claim that the British tory party is anything other than a great example of not being a voice of power or authority there (you'll find several EU PM's - including nominally right-wing ones like Merkel who ought to be his political buddies - won't even meet Hague or Cameron.
Yes, you read that right German chancellor Merkel has actually - and amazingly - refused to meet Cameron for his stance on the EPP.
How to win friends and influence huh?) is, quite frankly, delusional.

William Hague, the tory shadow foreign secretary, the guy who was the 2nd most anti-EU tory leader (after the only very recently departed Michael Howard), the very same guy who when 'chairing' the TV show 'Have I got News for You' cracked jokes about how the Germans often made themselves "feel at home in other people's countries".
His very selection as foreign sectretary speaks volumes about Cameron and his party.....and the shameless degree they'll go to to fake change.

But be my guest, if you really do think Hague's 'plan' is so plausable, go ahead, feel free to explain just how the British tory party (as it currently is) is ever going to get all the other 24 nations to agree to the tory POV and utterly rewrite and reinvent the Treaty of Rome for this ridiculous tory 'playing to the gallery' fantasy.

I'm all ears.


BTW you'll find Cameron last week has, rather sneakily, tried to quietly drop his idiotic stance on leaving the EU conservative group (obviously the message of how counter-productive their approach is is starting to get through!).
Cue the latest round of tory splits & rows over Europe.



[edit on 12-6-2006 by sminkeypinkey]



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