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Project Serpo blown wide open - exclusive expose

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posted on Nov, 9 2006 @ 07:56 AM
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amongus:

Up to release 9 or 10 in the Serpo story, the information was VERY interesting and was being released by the "original" anonymous through Victor Martinez.

From release 10 or 11 onwards, the posts were not the same, indicating that the "original anonymous" was "taken out" by "whoever".

Hey, even Shawnna agrees on this one. As she stated:

>I agree 100% that something changed after post 10 (December 21, 2005).

Found here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

From release 10 or 11 onwards, it's pretty well all smoke and mirrors with a number of people (and a lot of resources mind you) involved. I personally don't believe anything posted after release 9/10. I could go back and tell you exactly what post it all changed, however the last time I looked, the Serpo thread had been moved to WATS and I can't be bothered doing the admin stuff to access it and do the check
If you search my handle (jumpspace) for all the threads I have posted and those that relate to Serpo, you will find some interesting "predictions" there.

Mind you, as I have said in the past, I do take my hat off to "whoever" they are.

Cheers

JS




posted on Nov, 9 2006 @ 08:02 AM
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Originally posted by jumpspace
Firstly, I want to address one point:

>I do believe you've been relying on the less-than-stellar moderator's at the professional sock puppet's forum for your in-depth analysis for way too long - you actually believe their #e!

Huh? Wouldn't have a clue what you're on about here Shawnna - sorry.



Let me see if I can spell it out for you.

Obviously you've not done any of your own homework - you've been taking the crap being spewed by Bren/Admin and his cult-in-the-making mods and swallowing it whole.
----------



Unfortunately, the link to the original email that you provided IS NOT a valid email.

I certainly hope you haven't based RU on THAT email being a valid one


Do you have any other source?

Cheers

JS



Of course - all of the emails and documents posted on the links I directed you to are available - with headers.

What would make it a "valid email" for you?



posted on Nov, 9 2006 @ 08:04 AM
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Eyesofbear:

>They take the concept and build completely fabricated names, people, logs, etc... and then they pass it on to their favorite disinformation agent. The agent sees a pile of money in $erpo and thus the journey begins. Of course, both the government and the agent know it will all come tumbling down, which is what they want! Now the entire UFO community shakes their head and discount not only Serpo but the idea of an exchange program. The agent and government shake hands, job well done.

Well done!

You must have good contacts


I believe this all took place AFTER the initial release (messages 1 to 9/10) though. The BS started from message 10/11 or whatever AFTER the original anonymous was "silenced" and the "new" anonymous could post information that, over time, would be discredited.

Though, there were a few "agents" involved - Doty, BR et al.

I don't believe Victor Martinez is one of them though.

Cheers

JS



posted on Nov, 9 2006 @ 08:28 AM
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Originally posted by jumpspace
amongus:

Up to release 9 or 10 in the Serpo story, the information was VERY interesting and was being released by the "original" anonymous through Victor Martinez.

From release 10 or 11 onwards, the posts were not the same, indicating that the "original anonymous" was "taken out" by "whoever".

Hey, even Shawnna agrees on this one. As she stated:

>I agree 100% that something changed after post 10 (December 21, 2005).




Are you saying you believe what was posted in 1-8???

Even though there is irrefutable proof that it originates from a very well known liar (Doty), in cahoots with a convicted criminal (Victor) and a con man extraordinaire (Bill Ryan) with the encouragement and support of other highly educated individuals that appear to have some sort of personal agenda in creating and/or continuing a fear-based meme?





Here is a snipped paragraph written by rdube02 that is important to consider - especially you JS - given your propensity to 'believe'.



This isn't about Serpo anymore. It's about the past 30+ years of hoaxes and the cause and source of most of them. It's about an elite group of individuals who view themselves as better, smarter, and with a greater "need to know" than the general public. And they view the public with disdain....in general, idiots who will never understand the truth.



You can read the entire post the above paragraph came from here.


Always,
Shawnna



posted on Nov, 9 2006 @ 08:29 AM
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jumpspace, the issue with the story came from day one.

the original "release" claimed that the gov't was behind the release. now the folks who refuse to give up on this are claiming that the gov't is behind the disinfo releases by doty et al. That makes no sense.

RU's work has uncovered the emails all linking back to Doty but, disregarding that, why would the gov't go with a method of releasing info to a criminal who has charges related to issues with minors on his resume? Were there no arsonists available? The method of disclosure is nonsensical. The fact that VM is still held in high esteem by anyone is a mystery that deserves more attention than this piece of awful sci fi.



posted on Nov, 9 2006 @ 08:30 AM
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Shawnna:

>>>>I do believe you've been relying on the less-than-stellar moderator's at the professional sock puppet's forum for your in-depth analysis for way too long - you actually believe their #e!

>>Huh? Wouldn't have a clue what you're on about here Shawnna - sorry.

>Let me see if I can spell it out for you.
>Obviously you've not done any of your own homework - you've been taking the crap being spewed by Bren/Admin and his cult-in-the-making mods and swallowing it whole.

LOL, this is getting funnier Shawnna. I think you have me mistaken for someone else as I know of no Bren/Admin.

Nice of you to try and target my "belief system" though - well done, I must say...but so predictable.

The more you attack me personally, the more you reveal yourself.

>>Unfortunately, the link to the original email that you provided IS NOT a valid email.
>>I certainly hope you haven't based RU on THAT email being a valid one

>>Do you have any other source?

>Of course - all of the emails and documents posted on the links I directed you to are available - with headers.
>What would make it a "valid email" for you?

Let's put it another way:

What would make it a valid email so it wouldn't be rejected by an MTA?

If you don't know what an MTA is:

en.wikipedia.org...

For an email to be valid, it MUST conform to STANDARDS. Let me start by referring you to one IETF standard:

www.ietf.org...

THAT EMAIL DOES NOT CONFIRM TO RFC822!

Sorry to burst your bubble


Now, see if you can make a post without attacking me or my belief system.

Cheers

JS



posted on Nov, 9 2006 @ 08:38 AM
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Shawnna:

>Even though there is irrefutable proof that it originates from a very well known liar (Doty)

Hey, I'm open to believe anything as I've witnessed and experienced things that would scare the shiit out of a lot of people.

I did read RU up to a point but you confirmed what I have always believed - Doty, BR et al (excl. VM) were in on it.

The question I want to know is "how" you can have "irrefutable proof" that Doty sent the ORIGINAL emails.

Please please enlighten me on this.

Cheers

JS



posted on Nov, 9 2006 @ 08:45 AM
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Crakeur:

>the original "release" claimed that the gov't was behind the release. now the folks who refuse to give up on this are claiming that the gov't is behind the disinfo releases by doty et al. That makes no sense.

If one government agency was trying to release info and another (higher?) agency didn't want it release then it would make sense. Look at the CIA/FBI debacle re 911.

>RU's work has uncovered the emails all linking back to Doty

Hey, that's what I'm trying to get confirmation on. If you can enlighten me, please do.

Cheers

JS



posted on Nov, 9 2006 @ 09:28 AM
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Jumpspace does actually raise a good point concerning the first "Sylvester" email. Long ago, Myself and Ivo5000 requested that Zeptepi forward us the sylvester email so we could examine the header ourselfs. All we really got was text of the email and header. Not the actual email. And the header and email over at Serpo.info is the same thing. It was typed into the website via whatever program was used to construct the sight. During that typed entry, any header IP could have been entered. I've raised this point long ago. That is why we requested the actual email be forwarded but we received the same type of a text copy.

I believe Jumpspace wants the actual email and header displayed like the other emails at RU that are in PDF format. Maybe RU doesn't have it anymore or they certainly would have created a PDF by now. If anyone takes Ryan up on his offer to forward the email, all you will get is a text version that can easily be tampered with or spoofed. Similar to the one on display at Serpo.info

At any rate, what difference can it really make. Doty was sending emails attributed to others. That can't be denied, can it?



[edit on 11/9/2006 by Jeddyhi]



posted on Nov, 9 2006 @ 09:31 AM
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Originally posted by Crakeur
the original "release" claimed that the gov't was behind the release. now the folks who refuse to give up on this are claiming that the gov't is behind the disinfo releases by doty et al. That makes no sense.

That is an interesting take. I'm curious about a few things.
1. Who in their right mind would believe the government would release earth shattering information to the general public?
2. I never claimed to be a savant, but it makes perfect sense to me the government would be behind the disinformation and utilize agents to distribute the false story. The agents have an agenda and the government has an agenda.

If it doesn't make sense to you that doesn't discount the plausibility of the theory. You (and others) have spent a great deal of time presenting evidence that Doty was behind the emails, but that plays right into my theory.


RU's work has uncovered the emails all linking back to Doty but, disregarding that, why would the gov't go with a method of releasing info to a criminal who has charges related to issues with minors on his resume? Were there no arsonists available? The method of disclosure is nonsensical.


What better way to sink the ship? Guilty people make great fall guys, especially if they are cooperative and can make a little cash in the process. Besides, some people enjoy playing with people's minds. In the end, you give the government too much credit. If you look at the make up of our esteemed government, you will find a variety of criminals and shady characters. I haven't even mentioned associations with known criminals that has played out through history. One word for you, COVERT.

I'm not here to argue that Serpo has merit, it clearly doesn't. I'm here to say the concept of an exchange program is plausible. What better way to discount the whole thing than to create a sludge factory?



posted on Nov, 9 2006 @ 09:36 AM
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Originally posted by jumpspace
I believe this all took place AFTER the initial release (messages 1 to 9/10) though. The BS started from message 10/11 or whatever AFTER the original anonymous was "silenced" and the "new" anonymous could post information that, over time, would be discredited.


I think the BS started before release 1. This played out like a classic set-up. Seriously, do you really think the government would even consider releasing this type of information? Now, on a lighter note, the facts I have read on RU and here show who was behind the posts, but it doesn't show who was behind the poster.


What's the old saying? Follow the money.



posted on Nov, 9 2006 @ 09:41 AM
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Originally posted by Eyesofbear
I'm not here to argue that Serpo has merit, it clearly doesn't. I'm here to say the concept of an exchange program is plausible. What better way to discount the whole thing than to create a sludge factory?


discounting the whole thing would be fine if the original story didn't get "released" under the pretense of gov't disclosure. The way the story unfolded was that the gov't decided it was time to tell the world, via a small email list of ufologists (this is moronic in and of itself as it never would be mentioned anywhere that it might garner some attention in the larger, non-believing public). If you plan on sludging up the story, why bother starting it? No reason for that. None whatsoever. So, the initial story is, therefore suspect.

Is it possible that aliens came here, met with officials and took some folks back to planet X for scientific purposes? Sure, anything is possible. Is this story grounded in an inkling of truth? Doubt it. Was the first release really the product of a gov't sanctioned disclosure? Well, maybe Doty will be able to answer that as that first email was traced to him, no matter what the folks at OM want to believe. As far as I have seen, Doty et al haven't even denied this. Rather, they have called Zep names, posted illegally obtained information about Shawnna and tried several other bullying tactics but they have not said "no, it wasn't us."



posted on Nov, 9 2006 @ 10:11 AM
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Originally posted by Crakeur
If you plan on sludging up the story, why bother starting it? No reason for that. None whatsoever. So, the initial story is, therefore suspect.


Sigh, this is really becoming tedious. One more attempt for the gang. The government has discovered information about an exchange program (that was Top secret) might be leaked to the general public, they begin a campaign to make sure that when the information does become public knowledge, no one will even consider it (which apparently worked for you). They write a script, enlist a disinformation agent (Doty) and begin the wonderful world of Serpo. Of course, the idea is to make it believable (coming from the government, enough of the REAL story to make people believe) and then have the whole thing blow up! How does it blow up? I'll leave that to the staff of RU. Nevertheless, it DID blow up and now the idea that we had an exchange program is laughable because of what happened with Serpo. Hmmmm, job well done if you ask me.

I'm sure this was emotionally as well as physically draining for anyone who helped to discredit Serpo and Doty (not to mention the rest of the brain trust behind it). I also believe that anytime you deal with the government or one of their agents, the process is never over. It will be spin cycle after spin cycle.

All i wanted to convey in my original post was that the concept of an exchange program is plausible and I wanted to congratulate the disinformation specialist for a job well done, they should be commended for mucking of Ufology into the forseeable future.

[edit on 9-11-2006 by Eyesofbear]



posted on Nov, 9 2006 @ 10:40 AM
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Shawnna, Crakeur et al:

OK, let's look at this another way:

Let's assume that the errors made in re-typing the original email on serpo.info were human (as whitespace IS illegal in headers).

OK, we have an email with this identifying header:

Received: from [71.37.144.20] by ws7-5.us4.outblaze.com with http for thewizardofzin@lycos.com

What this header says is that:

The email originated from the IP address 71.37.144.20

Let's also assume that this IP address wasn't tampered with either when it was entered at serpo.info (ie if serpo.info was in on the "dis-info" game and they knew the dis-info agent (Doty) had used 71.37.144.20 then it would be easy as pie to link Doty to the original email by simply making sure this IP Address is 71.37.144.20).

As you can see, unless you have the original email, it's very easy to forge.

Now, if we assume the above two factors (and the second one is a VERY BIG assumption), then how can you directly associate Doty with the IP address of 71.37.144.20?

Just curious.

Cheers

JS



posted on Nov, 9 2006 @ 11:23 AM
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JS,

There are some other emails at RU in PDF format with actual headers that are from Doty and the same IP address is visible. But like you, I have never seen the actual email and header for the first original anonymous email in the proper format to proclaim that the original anonymous email came from Doty's IP. I have only seen text versions of it which are very easy to spoof. For example, I can copy and paste the email from serpo.info and insert my IP into the header instead of Doty's. Then I could post that spoofed header and claim that I am anonymous lol!!



posted on Nov, 9 2006 @ 01:04 PM
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Originally posted by jumpspace

>I do believe you've been relying on the less-than-stellar moderator's at the professional sock puppet's forum for your in-depth analysis for way too long - you actually believe their #e!

Huh? Wouldn't have a clue what you're on about here Shawnna - sorry.


You know precisely what she's "on about" - quit the act, you're not fooling anyone here.



You're going to LOVE what I have to say:

Unfortunately, the link to the original email that you provided IS NOT a valid email.

I certainly hope you haven't based RU on THAT email being a valid one


Do you have any other source?



The three of us have a copy of the original anonymous email as well as several original McGovern emails, complete with full headers - and they are quite "valid".

PM me your email address and I'll forward it to you. If you still don't get it once you take a look at who sent out that email (and please don't go on about how the header was "cloned" or "inserted"....that argument is getting really old).

The truth of the matter is this - several members of the so-called Aviary have just conducted yet another disinformation campaign. I wonder, has anyone kept count? How many pieces of disinfo does this make since Bennewitz anyway? We've got MJ12...the garbage Doty fed Linda Howe, the garbage he and several others (aviary) fed Moore...

And here they are again...behind Serpo. Instead of questioning WHY these birds are at it again - here you are trying to explain away the evidence that the birds were behind this, instead of asking the intelligent question....why are they at it again?

-Ry



posted on Nov, 9 2006 @ 01:07 PM
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Originally posted by jumpspace
I believe this all took place AFTER the initial release (messages 1 to 9/10) though. The BS started from message 10/11 or whatever AFTER the original anonymous was "silenced" and the "new" anonymous could post information that, over time, would be discredited.



Jumpspace....Doty WAS the original anonymous. Sorry man. Really...it's okay to let go you know... I know a counselor or two who might be able to help you out.

-Ry

[edit on 9-11-2006 by rdube02]



posted on Nov, 9 2006 @ 01:10 PM
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If you're saying that if you see the original email, jeddyhi, that you'd be willing to finally accept the truth - we'll forward you the original, with full header - as an attachment - not as "pasted" text.

-Ry



posted on Nov, 9 2006 @ 01:30 PM
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Originally posted by jumpspace

OK, we have an email with this identifying header:

Received: from [71.37.144.20] by ws7-5.us4.outblaze.com with http for thewizardofzin@lycos.com

What this header says is that:

The email originated from the IP address 71.37.144.20


Um...no. It says much more than that. If you would like to see a proper analysis, I'll refer you here. Read up a bit - you might learn something.

Here's a quote - btw, Xena has been in the IT field for many years, she's a pro. Here's what she wrote:



From the IP provided in the headers, I can resolve the address "71.37.144.20" to the following hostname: 71-37-144-20.albq.qwest.net

This tells me that the ISP of the sender was Qwest Communications Corporation and that the authenticating server for that IP (or client machine) is in Albequerque, New Mexico.

That is as far as I can take the investigation at that point, without corroborating information. I believe someone at Lucianarchys did post that Rick Doty's current IP was also on the Qwest network using the same Albequerque node, but that the IP was not the same as the one used on 2 November 2005.

To find a match we would need to see information that would link his IP on that date to the one shown in the headers here. Examples of that would include, email headers, forum logs( if he posted anywhere) or any other pograms out there that can provide a solid connection between request anonymous and Rick Doty's online activity on that date.


This was posted before we were able to finally ask around and a member of another forum who regularly sends out readnotify emails to keep track of the IP addresses of all of the major players (Aviary) - sent us what they had for Doty in November of 2005. Guess what - perfect match.

To corroborate, we also collected emails people had received from Doty at least near that time period in 2005. While broadband connections can be dynamic, so month to month may change - the domain stays the same. We were further able to corroborate through these additional emails around that time period the fact that Doty was using the Qwest domain contained in that IP as well.



Let's also assume that this IP address wasn't tampered with either when it was entered at serpo.info (ie if serpo.info was in on the "dis-info" game and they knew the dis-info agent (Doty) had used 71.37.144.20 then it would be easy as pie to link Doty to the original email by simply making sure this IP Address is 71.37.144.20).


Nope...this particular header was not forged. Again, from the link above, Xena did another followup post to explain why this header is authentic and leaves no doubt that Doty obviously sent it (emphasis mine):



Received: from [71.37.144.20] by ws7-5.us4.outblaze.com with http for thewizardofzin @ lycos.com; Tue, 01 Nov 2005 13:44:01 -0500

The above snippet of the header is called a received: line. Some parts of that line could be spoofed, but there is one record on that line that cannot and provides the true identity of the sender. The true record is the part of the received: line that is highlighted in red above and repeated again here: [71.37.144.20]. This record is the IP address that was logged by the receiving host from the sender and is the authentic record. It cannot be "spoofed", "cloned" or "inserted" .

Here's an article on spoofing, they explain it much better than I do. 2/3 of the way down the page is another explanation of this but the whole article is informative.


She goes on to post an article that outlines how spoofing is actually done. Her point is that it is identifiable within a header when it is done.

At this point - anyone still clinging to the hope that Doty did not send the original anonymous email is simply grasping at very, very thin and pathetic straws.

Now...with that said...

There is one other scenerio. Even though Doty SENT it...doesn't necessarily mean he wrote it. It is a completely acceptable (and very logical) theory that others could have written it and had him send it out (this could also be the case for the Paul McGovern confirmations - and most of the other confirmation statements.)

But, I'm sorry - it has been proven beyond any reasonable doubt that Doty sent this stuff out to Victor.

-Ry




[edit on 9-11-2006 by rdube02]

[edit on 9-11-2006 by rdube02]

[edit on 9-11-2006 by rdube02]



posted on Nov, 9 2006 @ 01:34 PM
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rdude:

>You know precisely what she's "on about" - quit the act, you're not fooling anyone here.

I do?

PLEASE enlighten me, as you obviously know me more than I do.

What a joke, really.

>>Unfortunately, the link to the original email that you provided IS NOT a valid email.

>The three of us have a copy of the original anonymous email as well as several original McGovern emails, complete with full headers - and they are quite "valid".

Well, you've just proven that you really don't have any idea what you are talking about rdude. For an email to be transmitted via an MTA there must be NO whitespace in the headers and the email provided as proof HAD whitespace, therefore it would be rejected by an MTA.

It just goes to show - something as blatant as an invalid email and you still swear that it's valid. But hey, don't believe me, call someone up at the Internet Engineering Task Force - the people who set the Internet standards - and ask them yourselves. Don't be surprised if they laugh at you then drop the phone.

Have you applied that same level of ignorance to RU?

We will see.

>PM me your email address and I'll forward it to you. If you still don't get it once you take a look at who sent out that email (and please don't go on about how the header was "cloned" or "inserted"....that argument is getting really old).

Well, considering it's a 100% VALID argument, I find it hilarious that you simply ignore that argument?

I'll tell you what - ignore EVERYTHING that has any chance of disproving your RU site and then everything will be fine.

...and you'll be nice and happy in your own comfort zone.

>And here they are again...behind Serpo. Instead of questioning WHY these birds are at it again - here you are trying to explain away the evidence that the birds were behind this, instead of asking the intelligent question....why are they at it again?

Intelligent question? That's a cop-out question.

I'll give you an intelligent question:

How did you link Doty to the IP address of the original email?

Sorry, but you CANNOT PROVE THIS

Give me FACTS as to HOW you linked Doty to that IP address and I'll then shoot your proof down in flames.

Right here, right NOW!

...or are you too scared to give me the facts because there is a possibility that your own belief system could come tumbling down around you?

Cheers

JS

PS: Yeah, good one attacking by mentality - typical tactic.



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