Project Serpo blown wide open - exclusive expose

Originally posted by shmush
Someone whos job it was at some point in his career to dis-inform people, wouldn't he be more careful than to just send emails from his own computer? There is no logic in him doing it that way.

You would think so yes. However, it is quite clear that he made several major mistakes at the beginning of this story. His first big mistake came when he thought he knew more about computers than he actually did. He even told people close to him that he used to be a hacker!
Going by what I have seen regarding his computer skills I would tend to think that could not possibly be true. By any stretch of the imagination.

His second mistake was believing Victor was the perfect choice for sending the information to because his WebTV system wouldn't enable him to see the headers of the emails. That didn't stop Victor sending the emails to a select few people so they could carry out the analysis however.

Why do you think Anon stopped sending the emails to Victor in the first place?

Why do you think Bill Ryan knew all along the information was coming from Rick Doty?

Doty knew the game was up regarding the emails that went to Victor, so he concocted a story and told Bill and the rest of the team of five that he was being "framed". They believed this story simply because they thought Rick was a computer expert and there is no way he would have been as stupid as he was. What they didn't know is the story Doty provided does not work in the case of web-based email servers. It falls flat on its face.

Next, without the knowledge of the rest of the team of five, Rick told Bill that he was being used as a conduit for this information and he had hundreds of encrypted documents stored on his computer which he would pass on to Bill once decrypted...

From being "framed" to being the actual conduit for the information. How extremely bizarre. How extremely bizzare that anyone (Bill especially) would actually fall for such patent BS.

Cheers,
Zep

Ok, so now the million dollar question. Why would Doty do this? What was his motivation and what was his goal? What was the purpose of Serpo as it relates to Doty?



[edit on 11/14/2006 by Jeddyhi]

No Such Thing As Bad Publicity

Originally posted by Jeddyhi
Ok, so now the million dollar question. Why would Doty do this? What was his motivation and what was his goal? What was the purpose of Serpo as it relates to Doty?

At the risk of sounding glib, I suspect the answer to that question is exempt from disclosure.

majic, Do you feel that Serpo was a simple marketing scheme for a book that is showing no signs of a dramatic increase in sales. I believe one or two pages are about Serpo in the second edition. The History Channel show on Hanger 18 gave more exposure to EfD in one hour than Serpo did in a year. I just don't buy that theory. Especially since no substantial proof has been offered other than a hypothesis. This same hypothesis tried to connect the Seinu disclosure to serpo as well. It is a well thought out hypothesis but far from being proven factual. Would you not agree?

How To Disarm An Interplanetary Hoax

Originally posted by Jeddyhi
It is a well thought out hypothesis but far from being proven factual. Would you not agree?

I can certainly agree that only Mr. Doty himself can know his motives for doing anything. I can only guess at them myself, and probably be wrong.

And heck, even he may not know his motives -- sometimes we do things without really knowing why we do them.

I was enjoying a little play on words in my last post, of course, but since I can only speculate, the conspiracy theorist's version of Occam's Razor tells us that the motives for almost any conspiracy can be boiled down to money and power.

For a hoaxer, money may come in the form of income generated either directly or indirectly by the hoax. General publicity and fame, for example, can lead to income.

In the most fundamental sense, hoaxers gain power by deceiving others. As long as others believe in the hoax, either completely or partially, the hoaxer has power over them.

Look at how much time and effort has gone into Serpo, and the power of a hoax is put on grand display.

The silver lining is that those who are taken in by hoaxes to some degree or another can learn from them.

If nothing else, hoaxes tend to follow similar patterns, and always require some sort of compromise of principle for the credulous to be taken in by them.

As the old saying goes, "You cannot con an honest man."

When I saw Mr. Ryan calling on people to "suspend disbelief" and accept "a percentage of truth", I saw an old formula in action.

At first -- and although at that point I already saw way too many discrepancies in Serpo to consider it even marginally credible -- I gave him the benefit of the doubt, since he feigned naivety (also an old formula for confidence swindles, by the way) and the best way to draw out a hoaxer is to watch and see what he does next.

And indeed, as the story continued and the nature of Mr. Ryan's character became clearer, there was little doubt left to give him.

As for Mr. Doty, he's played this game so many times it amazes me that anyone who knows anything about him would give even the slightest credence to anything he says. To paraphrase an old Led Zeppelin song, I see him standing alone with a tadpole in a jar.

I think the best lesson that can be learned from Serpo and its purveyors is the power of honesty. You don't need to be perfect to be honest -- God knows I'm far from perfect.

But when you refuse to allow your integrity, imperfect though it may be, to be compromised by the seductive allure of something you desire, whether money, power or "forbidden knowledge", you take away the only power hucksters have over you: an appeal to your own dishonesty.

Honesty really is the best policy.

All it takes to understand that is to try the alternatives for a while.

Zep,

I'm not denying that the Emails came from Doty's computer. I am wondering though, if anyone else has corroborated your testimony about it being absolutely impossible to fake an email IP address. Certainly you have more knowledge than me, and I'm not saying you don't know what you're talking about, but I certainly wouldn't know if what you were saying was true or not. I can't remember right now who said it (Kit, Bob Collins, Victor, Bill????), but one of them claimed they saw someone completely fabricate an IP address in 30 seconds or something like that. Besides you and Ry, has any outside source (and by outside, I mean outside of knowing anything about this story) corroborated your stance? And what is your stance on the IP fabrication that was claimed?

Also, I'm still waiting for your response on how and where you got the emails from Anon.

And If you could also point me in the direction of where the style comparison is, that would be great.

Thanks,
Shmush

Originally posted by shmush
Zep,

I'm not denying that the Emails came from Doty's computer.

Well that's a start

I am wondering though, if anyone else has corroborated your testimony about it being absolutely impossible to fake an email IP address.

I am not saying it is absolutely impossible to fake an IP address, I am saying that is not what happened in this case. The arguments that show why this is so have already been listed in great detail in this thread, at RU, in part at OM and elsewhere.

Certainly you have more knowledge than me, and I'm not saying you don't know what you're talking about, but I certainly wouldn't know if what you were saying was true or not.

Whenever I am presented with a "conundrum" like the above, I tend to do some research and educate myself on the matter. JeddyHi is an excellent example of such a thing in action.

I can't remember right now who said it (Kit, Bob Collins, Victor, Bill????), but one of them claimed they saw someone completely fabricate an IP address in 30 seconds or something like that.

That originally came from Kit and was repeated by Bill. It was a classic case of comparing apples with oranges and had no relevance whatsoever to the issue. All that particular example showed was that it was very easy to insert an IP address into a header. If that particular excercise had *changed* the originating IP address so that it appeared changed after sending to a web-based email server I would have been mightily impressed. That isn't what happened and is simply another way of trying to deflect from the reality of the situation.

Besides you and Ry, has any outside source (and by outside, I mean outside of knowing anything about this story) corroborated your stance? And what is your stance on the IP fabrication that was claimed?

In answer to your first question, yes. You are quite welcome to seek out your own qualified independent source and find this out for yourself. We have provided enough information in our reports and on the forums for people to see that the analysis is correct. Wrt your second question, which IP fabrication would that be?

Also, I'm still waiting for your response on how and where you got the emails from Anon.

I don't actually think that is the question you meant to ask, because I thought it was extremely obvious where they came from. If your question was meant to ask where Anon's details came from (name and email address) then I hope you are prepared for an extremely long wait. That is the one question *they* would all love to know the answer to! I will keep that private information to myself thank you very much

And If you could also point me in the direction of where the style comparison is, that would be great.

I will do, but it will be in a day or two when I have had time to lookup the links. If that is too long you could always try searching through the Serpo threads here at ATS, your own forum at OM, or my forum at RU. You will find an analysis at all three places.

Cheers,
Zep

When I got involved in the original Serpo thread here at ATS - it was a wild read every night! An amazing assortment of critical thinking skills and intellect made the discussion fascinating.

My involvement deepened when SO asked for volunteers to put together a "Serpo Summary". In the course of that work, I had the opportunity to get to know certain people who have, and continue, to follow this sad saga.

My one and only goal has always been to expose ALL of the facts so that all involved, especially those pulling the strings, can never get away with something like this again. That remains my goal.

Always,
Shawnna

The Ultimate Penalty

Originally posted by Shawnna
My one and only goal has always been to expose ALL of the facts so that all involved, especially those pulling the strings, can never get away with something like this again. That remains my goal.

Exposure is the one thing hoaxers fear above all else.

Agreed.

It is exactly why they MUST be exposed - all involved MUST be exposed.

Let me ask you a question Majic - for I do admire your integrity and critical thinking.

Does the end, justify the means?

For me - it does not.

Always,
Shawnna


[edit on 16-11-2006 by Shawnna]

The fact remains that there is no clear proof that this is a hoax, regardless of what your forum tells us. It is all circumstantial. Zeps constant avoidance by saying things have been discussed here and there or "I" have discussed this in many places is questionable. I've read through almost (90%) of the Serpo information and have found virtually none of what he talks about. I will say that I tried to read through the "Behind Serpo" thread at RU and found it highly incomprehensible because Shawnna's posts have been deleted.

I will reserve judgement if Zep can provide me with the info that I'm seeking.

Zep you never really answered my question, you just responded with an answer for me to take as truth. Is there anyone who can corroborate your take on the emails, and the fact that you say they CANNOT be fabricated. I'm talking specifically about the RD emails...not in general. As someone who has self proclaimed themselves to be in the IT field, you certainly cannot expect me to "educate myself" enough to be able to thoroughly question your perspective. You are a professional, and it would take me years and years to get to your level of expertise...so I consider that challenge futile.

I should clarify my question to you about the Anon emails. You claimed you had the emails that Anon sent with all of the "release information". Why can't you disclose where you got that from?? To everyones knowledge, only Victor has those emails, so you either got them from Victor honestly or got them from Anon honestly, otherwise I've got to question what source do you have that you received the same emails? Certainly you've demonstrated that you're not afraid to call someone out, so why not in this case?

To be honest, I like the research you've both done at RU. In fact, and the other Global MODs will agree with me, I've defended some of the research you've done. The fact remains though that the information that is provided is circumstantial at best, and leans towards the far-reaching. You'ld be lucky to convict anyone based on the information you have brought forward...not that you are trying to convict anyone, but I think that the basis of any judgement should be judicialesque.

I agree.

A year after the peddlers started this story, some of us became part of the story itself.

In order for all to understand it, all of the story must be exposed.

Always,
Shawnna

Originally posted by Majic
The Ultimate Penalty

Originally posted by Shawnna
My one and only goal has always been to expose ALL of the facts so that all involved, especially those pulling the strings, can never get away with something like this again. That remains my goal.

Exposure is the one thing hoaxers fear above all else.

Until they step forward for the glory. Hoaxers always have an agenda. Fool the masses, avoid detection, then eventually claim the glory!!!

I do believe that if the whole story was exposed - including the chapter involving those who in researching this sad saga became part of the story - it will become much clearer for all.

Always,
Shawnna

Zep:

>That didn't stop Victor sending the emails to a select few people so they could carry out the analysis however.

Thanks for answering my question...in a round-about way

The next questions that have to be asked are:

1) Who are these "select" few people?
2) Do these "select" people have a common interest?
3) How did Victor send the emails?

We're getting there slowly

Cheers

JS

PS: For those who couldn't get the URL I posted, go to:

www.google.com... (thanks Majiic)

and it's the listing that mentions entrapment that has cooper2.htm at the end of the URL.

They're baaaaaack!


I posted an article after receiving an email at the OMF . It seems they received info the Serpo website now has an update with respect to an alleged ufo soviet firefight in 1985. However it was removed here at ATS because, and I agree, it was not news and that the hoax was exposed. OMF seems to be pushing it unfortunately I have no interest in reviving a hoax, but ..the wording in the Serpico site update it caught my immediate attention..there were the usual documents, with fancy definitions ofor personnel , events etc. and then the statement.:

that the reader could keep the papers in any order they wanted.

.Now this struck me as odd as in the Caret hoax, the author said :
to keep the papers in order..
.which was an error or flag that pointed towards possibility of copyrigt after all it was a novellete or voluminous work, that one would need to keep it order..

It feels that in this instance with Serpico ,they wanted to avoid that error.

What is the possibility that Caret was a second fallback project as the Serpico project was collapsing about the same time. Now that Caret ran out of steam quickly as far as memes go do to the scrutiny it quickly received, and is this an attempt to salvage residual interest learning from its prior criticisms and errors of Caret?,

Apreciating your input

SyS

[edit on 21-8-2007 by Sys_Config]

reply to post by Sys_Config


Let me see if I get you right, are you suggesting that the Serpo and Caret story are being perpetrated by the same group of people? That's a big claim, not far fetched though.

The thing is IMO, that the Caret story is somewhat different than the Serpo one. In some odd way Caret is less complicated in the story sense but better because of the document and pic presented.

If you are just refering to the guys feeding off out the stories that are out here and fixed them as they go, sure, that's what all this guys do.

It is simple for me. I do not understand the pictures here:

isaaccaret.fortunecity.com...

or the story there at Serpo:

www.serpo.org...

And if asked if I remember the what - 178 page thread here the year before on Serpo, I may have to ask:

Do you work for the Church of Scientology (whatever it is) and have you been abducted by Extraterrestrials?

Of course, I do not care even, so I may muse myself at looking there once in a while, but after the page about how the engines work, I had already read some of that on another website claimed again by people who had worked at Area51 or something like that while being smart and being a late year teenager or something.

But how about "The Atlantic Undersea Test and Evaluation Center is allegedly located in the Bermuda Triangle and is sometimes called Underwater Area 51. This US Navy Research Center is a top-secret facility whose exact mission statement is not known to the general public. No one is allowed to visit there or film in or near the facility. Conspiracy theorists suspect they make have created or reproduced these electromagnetic anomalies" in the Bermuda Triangle?
www.crystalinks.com...

AUTEC even has its own website.



[edit on 8/22/2007 by AmoebaSized]

What does "keeping the papers in order" have to do with anything ?


[edit on 22-8-2007 by Mogget]

Thanx guys I don't need to bury my head in this.

Have a great day..and make sure you weld the door shut when you leave

SyS