Project Serpo blown wide open - exclusive expose

Listen To The Banned

Originally posted by boycotteverything
I fully expect Springer to ban me yet again. It's ok. I've been banned by OM, RU, ED, ATS. Truth is hard. K

Nope. I did.

If your purpose is to violate the AboveTopSecret.com Terms And Conditions Of Use, circumvent our enforcement of them and be abusive and obnoxious toward the membership and staff, you don't belong here.

If you have been banned and wish to return honestly, try the contact page. If the owners are willing to give you another shot, they'll let you know.

And try not to be such a jerk for a change. :shk:

Poor Toon.......


I know he wants to participate - I also know he has quite a bit of insight to offer.


I just think he's hard wired to act like a troll on forums for some reason.

Your opinion of Kit Green is well known and it's yours to have. To make a an UTTERLY FALSE statement like "you fear you might get banned for expressing it" is just pitiful pandering to the LOWEST denominator and you KNOW IT. It's pure CRAP.

What's up with THAT?!

Springer...

Crossed Wiring

Originally posted by Shawnna
I just think he's hard wired to act like a troll on forums for some reason.

It is indeed unfortunate, especially in light of the fact that there's nothing about ATS which requires him to think a certain way, just be reasonably civil.

The earlier talk of a "party line" makes me chuckle, because I know better. If I thought for a moment Serpo was the real deal, I would say so without reservation or any fear of retaliation whatsoever.

If it were any other way, I wouldn't be here.

No one on the staff has ever told me what to think about Serpo or anything else. So when I see those sorts of insinuations, I know the people making them are full of it.

Serpo has become a bitter subject on ATS because so many members, including the staff and the ownership, got dragged into it on a personal level -- and dragged through the mud. Having the ATS community insidiously co-opted into helping write the script for a hoax didn't help.

And oh what a grand drama it all has been.

The Unflattering Bottom Line

Yet after all this, what are we left with?

Proof or even credible evidence of alien contact, or just a bunch of pointed fingers, ego wars and a smokescreen to hide the truth?

We may know a tree by the fruit it bears, and the Tree of Serpo bears nothing but thorns.

Meanwhile, the important questions remain.

Are we alone in the universe? I think not!

Have extraterrestrial beings come here and made contact with the governments of earth? I don't know!

Serpo doesn't answer these questions -- at least, not honestly -- but I am confident that someone can.

That's what I'm looking for, and I pray from the bottom of my heart that no one will be discouraged from seeking those answers by something as absurd as the pulp fiction of Serpo. :shk:




[edit on 11/12/2006 by Majic]

Originally posted by boycotteverything
RE: Shawna post:


Can you enlighten us as to why you have taken it upon yourself to destroy app. 30% of the RU forum work product thereby making the entire board all but unintelligible? Is it because your "...entire life turned upside...?" I find that such a self-destructive fit of petulance says more about you than even the messages you deleted.

Just a thought.

[edit on 12-11-2006 by boycotteverything]

I realize how deleting of my RU posts has appeared - and I realize there are those who would take this and try to use it to discredit the hard work that Ryan, Zep and I have done with respect to investigating those behind Serpo.

I will apologize publicly here - as I have apologized to both Ryan and Zep privately - for deleting my posts. It was an emotional reaction to being very hurt.

While that is not being offered as an excuse - it is simply the truth. I am Irish and I've always been quite passionate about things. When hurt, I respond initially with anger - which is how this played out.

Again - it is something that happened and I can't undo it. I am hopeful that Ryan, Zep and I can at some point discuss the issues that led up to this but as Ryan has stated, it is all too raw right now.

I appreciate Toon asking as I know others have been curious about this as well.

Always,
Shawnna

[edit on 12-11-2006 by Shawnna]

Originally posted by Springer
Your opinion of Kit Green is well known and it's yours to have. To make a an UTTERLY FALSE statement like "you fear you might get banned for expressing it" is just pitiful pandering to the LOWEST denominator and you KNOW IT. It's pure CRAP.

What's up with THAT?!

Springer...

My comment was suppose to be taken as a "tongue in cheek" comment in light of Toon's post, Springer.

I apologize it did not come across that way.

I would offer that in light of the libelous crap and outright lies "out there" about people getting banned it was not a good choice for an attempt at humor.

Springer...

Originally posted by Springer
I would offer that in light of the libelous crap and outright lies "out there" about people getting banned it was not a good choice for an attempt at humor.

Springer...

I have not followed the libelous crap and other stuff "out there".

I have edited my original post with this offensive comment to reflect the poor attempt at humor.

My sincerest apology once again, Springer.

Originally posted by Shawnna

Originally posted by Springer
I would offer that in light of the libelous crap and outright lies "out there" about people getting banned it was not a good choice for an attempt at humor.

Springer...

I have not followed the libelous crap and other stuff "out there".

I have edited my original post with this offensive comment to reflect the poor attempt at humor.

Ahhh, I probably over reacted, forget about it, its been a tough week in alot of ways and I need to chill. No worries.

Springer...

It goes beyond Kit and Hal...

To the one who forwarded my post - what part of beyond don't you understand?

Here's my response tonight, to a question from a man who has never failed to answer any questions I've posed to him - so I try to do the same in return. I've removed sections that contain private and/or sensitive information - or contain details that are still being investigated:

Hey Kit,

Thanks for responding. I was actually waiting for your response...since
that comment was posted on ATS in the middle of a mud-slinging fight
with the OM groupies...I knew one of them would forward it to you. So I
already have my response prepared for you, all I need to do is click
"send".

My answer is simple - I believe, very much so, that the "birdmen" who
fed Moore information fed him disinformation, and very likely did it for
the government. I believe Moore's later confession at the UFO
conference, particularly because it jives with what happened to
Bennewitz and later confessions by others.

(snip...)

It implies exactly what it says - "it goes beyond Kit and Hal". (snip...) Meaning right now people are focused on Kit and Hal because the Serpo revelations revealed your interest and activites (collaborating with Rick, Victor and Bill). The "it" is the deception and disinformation campaign. While I do believe (and I did
make it clear in that post) that you and Hal are part of the "game" (in
your beliefs, interest in the field, and involvement/correspondence, as
evidenced by the Serpo activites) - the DECEPTION AND DISINFORMATION
(which I called "it") - goes beyond you and Hal.

If you're asking what I believe - it's this: I believe XXXXX, and
several others who are also on Moore's list of Birdmen, are part of the
government's disinformation campaign. I believe they had a hand, in
some form, in Serpo - (snip...).

After speaking with you - I'm no longer convinced that you are part of
the deception (yes, I believed it a while back, but not anymore) -
although I do believe your interest in the subject keeps you getting
"sucked" into the mess. I also believe that you know the other "birdmen"
who ARE part of the deception/disinformation, but again, after speaking
with you, I'm not convinced that you are really aware, or would believe,
that those particular colleagues of yours are disinfo agents. Or maybe
you would? Then again - who am I to say what you would believe?

Anyway - that's the best way I can explain my statement to you. "It
goes beyond Kit and Hal" means that you two were simply stuck holding
the "public" bag. But I don't believe the two of you were up to nefarious activites. It means I believe that there are "birdmen" though, who certainly were. And
those who are willing to look "beyond" Kit and Hal might see it for
themselves as well.

Best regards,
Ryan

The response, in part:

Ryan:

Thanks, so much.

I understand that I misread by 180 degrees the "vector" of the statement
"It goes beyond..."

Nice try O-bnoxious M-anipulators.

Cheers,
-Ry



[edit on 12-11-2006 by rdube02]

Wound Up

Originally posted by Springer
Ahhh, I probably over reacted, forget about it, its been a tough week in alot of ways and I need to chill.

No worries.

Gee, now why would you be so touchy?

You've only been called just about everything from a government shill to the Devil incarnate over all this.

Originally posted by Jeddyhi
First of all, I want to thank Ry and Zep for being cooperative and helpful and understanding what I wanted to see. For the record, I have received an email which contains the first anonymous email as an attachment with it's own header. I was able to expand this header and answer my own questions. I always had a sneaking suspicion that Doty's IP was simply lifted from one of his emails and inserted into the text version of the header that is displayed at serpo.info.

Well, I stand corrected. The IP of the sender is most definitely 71.37.144.20
And this IP is correctly associated with Rick Doty as emails coming from him have had this IP. The Bombshell email displayed at RU contains this line of info:

Thanks Jeddyhi,

Your post above shows the diplomacy and moderate stance that you've always typically displayed. Your one guy who we've always felt didn't belong where you set up camp, and I've never really considered you as "one of them" - but if it's where you feel at home, who are we to judge?

I believe, at this moment we might be in 100% agreement, at least in regards to Doty's involvement and the possible explanations of his actions. And that's a good feeling, for once.

Thanks for your kind words above...and if there's ever anything you want to discuss - or just exchange ideas, please feel free to contact me via email or PM any time.

With respect,
-Ry

Originally posted by Majic
Wound Up

Originally posted by Springer
Ahhh, I probably over reacted, forget about it, its been a tough week in alot of ways and I need to chill.

No worries.

Gee, now why would you be so touchy?

You've only been called just about everything from a government shill to the Devil incarnate over all this.

Oh, that's all just part of it IMO...

When you are dedicated to providing a place EVERYONE can join and NOBODY is denied Membership unless they abuse our Membership or violate the TAC, that allows for the "other side's" perspective to get equal and significant (millions of viewers a month) representation which really pisses some people off.

I understand that and until the day dawns that Humanity learns to honestly look at all sides of an issue I don't believe it will stop.

Springer...

[edit on 11-12-2006 by Springer]

There you go JakeReason - you may not fear registering here!



I really find it amusing that Serpo began at ATS, wound around the internet through OM and RU and here we are again, back at ATS.



Now if we could only entice Centrist into the discussion - whew - what a ride it would be!



[edit on 12-11-2006 by Shawnna]

Originally posted by Shawnna


Now if we could only entice Centrist into the discussion - whew - what a ride it would be!

[edit on 12-11-2006 by Shawnna]

Not a CHANCE... I spoke with him a couple weeks ago and he is enjoying life to the max and has moved WAY on. Too bad in some ways and okay in others methinks.

Springer...

Serpo is a hoax, everyone should stop this nonsense already. You guys need to focus on more concrete topics and figure out if the alien presense is a reality. Serpo is just a dead end that will drain your energy and your will to do legitimate research, don't you get it. They want to waste you and your will to find the real stuff. The more you dig and find about this hoax, the more discouraged you get. You wont notice it at first but eventually it will catch up with you and you will loose most if not all interest in researching anything alien. You will think that most of what is out there is hoax and it is not worth ones time. That's the trick! Thats probably what they want happen to most of us. Don't fall for the trap.

Originally posted by Cabanman You will think that most of what is out there is hoax and it is not worth ones time. That's the trick! Thats probably what they want happen to most of us. Don't fall for the trap.

I would say most of what is out there on UFO's is a hoax. I believe only a very small percentage holds any truth. The Serpo story has the Roswell side of it that I think could hold some truth, but I still don't buy the Exchange Program.

the question, I have now. is do the hoaxers to the hoaxers genuinely believe their own storys? or are there hoaxers to hoaxer of hoaxers?

[edit on 13-11-2006 by waffleprime]

Originally posted by waffleprime
the question, I have now. is do the hoaxers to the hoaxers genuinely believe their own storys? or are there hoaxers to hoaxer of hoaxers?

The vertical levels have been elusive in these little gems for as long as they've been going. That could be because there is absolutely nothing/no one "above" the initial hoaxer OR their security is very tight and protected for reasons of National Security.

Taking the "Distraction Concept", wherein someone puts out a B.S. story to attract eyes away from something sensitive, it makes perfect sense those "hoaxes" (I know Jeddyhi distinguishes between these and Dis-Info but a hoax is a hoax in my mind only the motivation is different and maybe more "scary" ) would have the best and brightest covering the "eyes behind".

A generic hoax (put out by an individual or group of private citizens) would usually be the work of someone who was just having a bit of "fun" or trying to attract attention to something (book, DVD, movie, etc...) for profit and or fame. These would usually be pretty straightforward, single group, situations I would think. Now it is certainly feasible that a "generic hoax" could get hoaxed thus leading to more "vertical levels" but that would imply the hoax itself was actually rubbing up against something the hoaxers may not have known about.

The final thought I have on this would be what if a "generic hoax" was deemed "good enough" or "popular enough" to be used for a "Distraction Concept" hoax? Then where would we be? THAT situation could very easily appear to create some unwarranted credibility to the original, generic hoax could it not?

That's the problem with all the hoaxing and why we dislike it so damned much, you can spend days, weeks even months or years digging through all the rubble only to find a dried up prune.

Springer...

[edit on 11-13-2006 by Springer]

I see that now certain people are having to accept that Rick Doty was indeed the person that sent the original emails, the old "plausible deniability" chestnut is being bandied about once again...

Forgetting the fact that he has continuously denied having *anything* to do with Serpo whatsoever, what about the simple fact of the writing styles matching? What about the simple fact that not only did he send the original anonymous emails, he ALSO sent all of the Paul McGovern and other corroborating emails?? What about the simple fact that he was the provider of everything that went to Victor, and everything that went to Bill (with Bill's complete knowledge I might add)??

Plausible deniability? More like undeniably implausible.

Cheers,
Zep