It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Project Serpo blown wide open - exclusive expose

page: 10
4
<< 7  8  9    11  12  13 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Nov, 11 2006 @ 12:15 AM
link   
During the last year of having my entire life turned upside and stomped on by this involved in this bull# story, I've learned something about the mind games they play.


They believe if they keep repeating something, over and over and over and over and over and over and over again, that eventually someone will see the crap they are peddling, and believe it.


They let it rest for a few days or weeks, and then repeat it all over again.


What they hope is that the individuals who have managed to maintain their critical thinking skills will simply give up and walk away. It's mentally and emotionally exhausting to continue to have the same arguments and discussions over, and over and over again.


It's quite pathetic to see it happening again actually.






posted on Nov, 11 2006 @ 12:48 AM
link   
But Who Deceives The Deceiver?


Originally posted by Shawnna
During the last year of having my entire life turned upside and stomped on by this involved in this bull# story, I've learned something about the mind games they play.

Though I certainly haven't devoted the sort of time and energy you have to Serpo, I've also found the experience educational.

As you point out, those who seek to deceive can be relentless in their pursuit of deception.

But as the saying goes, those who seek to deceive must first deceive themselves.

And therein lies the rub.

The Hazards Of Poisons And Reverse Osmosis

For as much as all this has hooked you, it most certainly has hooked the hoaxers and their minions even more.

Some of them obsess over it, making it a fixture in their lives, constantly trying to find new ways to "crack the nut".

At some point it becomes involuntary and all-consuming. Relationships are lost, dubious new relationships are formed, all the world seems to fill up with treachery, no one can be trusted -- not even oneself.

Lives become wrapped around -- what?

Lies.

"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." -- Nietzsche

The irony of hoaxes such as Serpo is that their ultimate victims are inevitably the hoaxers themselves.

True justice is nothing more than the consequences of one's own actions, and it is inescapable.

Hoaxers, debunk thyselves!

Only then can you be free.



posted on Nov, 11 2006 @ 07:09 AM
link   
Rdube02 wrote:

As I posted above. Read the actual exposes and then you might realize that what you wrote ab
ove couldn't be further from the truth. Nothing close to fact.


With respect, I HAVE read ALL of your "exposes" and given them due consideration. The fact that I disagree with your interpretation of the "evidence" apparently makes me stupid...?


1. Richard Doty sent the first "Anonymous" email in November 2. Richard Doty sent the "Paul McGovern" emails confirming the Serpo material.


IMO the only significant data contained within the RU "Expose" is the IP correlation, which, of course, WAS indeed a result of of the imposter anonymous deception.(..and yes it would be nice to see the original Anon email, not just text, would you except anything less?)


3. Bill Ryan, Victor Martinez, Rick Doty, Christopher (Kit) Green, and Harold (Hal) Puthoff took part in the "Team of 5" discussions to help analyze and "handle" incoming releases - within these discussions Rick presented himself as an "expert" in IT matters.


IMO,the involvement of Hal Puthoff and Kit Green in the team of five is of no particular relevance. They both have a long standing interest in the subject matter, are both on Victors list and in all likelihood simply contacted Victor Privately, as they have reputations to protect. The Aviary, as a Government disinformation operation, is a myth spread by various paranoid and misinformed individuals.

Points 4, 5 and 6 are irrelevant, IMO


7. Bill Ryan's covering for Rick's "info drop" at the Laughlin conference was revealed.


If true, this is very unusual and puzzling behavior, but it doesn't prove anything and unfortunately Bill has not confirmed this publicly or privately, as far as I am aware.

Before you question my intellect (admittedly not vast), critical thinking skills, or other personal traits. Let me say that I am well aware of the many flaws in the Serpo story and that I do consider it to be disinformation. I am willing to except the IP correlation, but I do not except the hoax or EFD marketing hypothesis as there are other possible interpretations.

It has always been my belief that the 'truth' in any debate, is to be found somewhere in the midst of the two extremes.



posted on Nov, 11 2006 @ 08:01 AM
link   
I am 100% sure "This" Slurpo story that BR, RC & RD are pushing is a hoax.

I have slight feeling that there could be a real Slurpo like story buried somewhere deep in Government. Just not this one.



Originally posted by rodback
It seems to me that people have put an awful lot of effort into saying Serpo is a hoax. Someone earlier mentioned "follow the money trail". Well I think you can follow an effort or a time trail just as well.



[edit on 11-11-2006 by sandman658]



posted on Nov, 11 2006 @ 09:20 AM
link   

Originally posted by ufonaut

It has always been my belief that the 'truth' in any debate, is to be found somewhere in the midst of the two extremes.


At least on that one statement we can agree ufonaut. I call Serpo a hoax, only because it is blatantly obvious it was "made up" to mislead and re-distribute old ufology folklore that has been in circulation for quite some time. But even fictional stories can provide information when you learn who wrote it and their motives. The 10% truth Bill goes on about isn't within the story, but behind it.

If you don't find the involvement of birdmen significant, you may not have read up enough on the Bennewitz campaign, including Moore's involvement and the process of how he went about naming the birdmen - and the information they gave him. The aviary is a silly name for a loose-nit group of men who have gone about, throughout their careers, distributing false information, much of which has been proven to be fabricated. Which is, of course, a discussion for another thread and another time.

But that statement of yours about those folk shows (and this is not meant as an insult, but as an observation) that you might not know as much about the background information as you should. That could be because of where you're hanging out. We would be more than happy to show much of the correspondence with you that shows the nefarious actions (and contradictory statements) showing complicit involvement in Serpo by men who have been part of disinfo for many years. Much of which is circumstantial, so we haven't published until we can corroborate and make it veridical. But of course, not if you're going to share it with individuals who's only purpose is to kill any such evidence before it can see the light of day.

And this goes beyond Kit and Hal. Other birdmen are part of the game as well. But then again - this is only based on a single little innocent email right? So how should we know? lol Be careful who you believe ufonaut. You've been provided another whole set of false information - so I don't blame you for how you feel about RU.

Regards,
-Ry

[edit on 11-11-2006 by rdube02]



posted on Nov, 11 2006 @ 10:51 AM
link   
Sandman658:

>I am 100% sure "This" Slurpo story that BR, RC & RD are pushing is a hoax.

I also agree with you here 100% Sandman - BR, RC & RD are definitely pushing a hoax.

What I want to know is when RD came into it.

Earlier, I posted the received header that identified an IP (Internet Protocol) Address as being the most important piece of information. I am fully aware of Email headers and what information they hold, however the single piece of information I was interested in was the IP Address - not the other information.

That it only the start though. At this point in time, I do not know whether it is a valid IP Address or not - in the context of a "received header".

From what I have read of what Xena has posted at RU, I'm glad she knows what's she's talking about. Well done RU for your choice as there are a lot of people who claim they are "professionals" and they simply aren't.

Let me ask everyone a question:

Has anyone here heard of "middleman interception"...a tech. that can be used over the Internet?

It is 100% impossible to crack by "normal methods".

What I can say is that I have been involved in a joint venture whereby we had to develop 'middleman interception" technology for use on the Internet and in doing so, I have had to deal directly with the US Equivalent of NSA (In Australia, it's called DSD - Defence Signals Directorate). For more info on DSD:

www.dsd.gov.au...

As you can see, I am coming from quite a different angle regarding Serpo than most and are concentrating 100% on the very early stages. As far as I'm concerned, post 10/11 onwards isn't even worth reading.

What I will find?

Who knows.

What I will give though, are the FACTS about what may/did/could have happened.

Cheers

JS

PS: For the record, I am in no way involved with OM or RU or any other forums that have been mentioned here (apart from ATS obviously).

[edit - removing irrelevant info]

[edit on 11-11-2006 by jumpspace]



posted on Nov, 11 2006 @ 11:43 AM
link   

Originally posted by rodback
It seems to me that people have put an awful lot of effort into saying Serpo is a hoax. Someone earlier mentioned "follow the money trail". Well I think you can follow an effort or a time trail just as well.

For instance, Mr. Springer, you seem to post a lot at RU. Do you take the same approach with other stories out there you think are hoaxes?


The fact I choose to spend the few minutes a day of free time I get in a place that was started by someone I respect and want to support shouldn't be all that mysterious.


My "involvement" at RU is purely recreational on my part, I am a regular member there, no worries no responsibilities, just a regular person who is free to speculate with no "baggage" attached to it. The pitiful attempts by the ignorant to imply I am somehow more involved there than that have been a great source of jocularity for me.


It's been a hoot watching the back and forth between the two factions of the slurpo debacle. We have RU, who at least TRIES (and succeeds IMHO) to look through the smoke and get the facts, such as they are... And we have OM which seems to regurgitate the smoke over and over and over and over and over and over again in as many "new ways" as possible i.e. "prose" and "defense"
Oh man that's special.


I see Jeddyhi has found his way back to ATS and is at least attempting to get REAL data, good on Jeddyhi.
There may be hope yet.


Springer...



posted on Nov, 11 2006 @ 12:58 PM
link   
Rdube02 wrote:

If you don't find the involvement of birdmen significant, you may not have read up enough on the Bennewitz campaign, including Moore's involvement and the process of how he went about naming the birdmen - and the information they gave him. The aviary is a silly name for a loose-nit group of men who have gone about, throughout their careers, distributing false information, much of which has been proven to be fabricated.


Actually, I am very familiar with the Bennewitz story and the other operations carried out by Rick Doty whilst he was an AFOSI Counter Intelligence operative. But those actions were carried out as a response to specific orders. I see no evidence of disinformation being spread by other "birdmen". As I'm sure you are aware, much of Aviary mythology can be traced to "Dr Armen Victorian" and Richard Boylan. I base this not on speculation but personal communication.

I posted the following at OM on 11 May, 2006:

Hello Mr Collins,

I listened to your interview with Jerry Pippin (thanks for that.. Could have been longer though.. What about coast to coast?) recently and I often refer to your book in online discussions at, lucianarchy.proboards21.Com... I would like to ask a couple of questions if I may?

Firstly, many within the UFO community consider the Aviary to be a network of Disinformation assets whose sole purpose is the dissemination of lies and confusion. Yet in your book you describe a loose knit group of interested individuals who simply met(/meet?) to share information.

Hi Lee, the Aviary is just as described in the book. A loose group of individuals trying to dig out the truth. The group was meant to be secretive since we all felt at the time that was the only way to get "inside information" and protect sources. We never put out knowingly false information since our goal was the truth....

My question, was(is) the group knowingly spreading disinformation? Or faithfully reporting information from sources?

Reporting information from sources.....


Secondly the, "..Strawberry Ice cream" comment from, UFO cover-up Live is considered by many to be a 'psychological get out' designed to take the sting out of other more serious information. I would be interested in your comment. Also could you state which source supplied this information?

With your permission I would like to post your answers on the forum.

Regards,

Lee.

The strawberry ice cream theme (see link) had a lot of truth in it but it was also used as a "psychological get out" as you mentioned. Any other questions please ask.
www.ufoconspiracy.com...

Regards

Robert Collins
[/blockquote]



posted on Nov, 11 2006 @ 01:03 PM
link   
Additional comments:

Christopher 'Kit' Green, MD, PHD-

[blockquote]I support fully what Bob says. In fact, as one of the Aviary (I guess) you may be interested in knowing that many of us didn't KNOW we were bird-named until years after Bill and Jamie created the "Aviary" as a partial-joke-partial-serious way to communicate in a partially-private-partially-tongue-in-cheek way about many of us. We were then, and are now thought by many UFO groupies to be a bit of a bunch of fruit-cakes...but not by those who know us. Bob is right, we never wanted to do a thing at the time Bill Moore "invented us" except to loosely gossip about something we found interesting at the time (and surely still do, most of us), and to the extent it was true...clearly important...and to the extent is wasn't, embarrassing.

The fun thing has been to see the paranoid seriousness some persons have attributed to the Aviary ("Disinformation") which isn't isn't even close to the truth...but as with delusional thought...never likely to be argued away from those people who believe we are bad persons. We are not. We are not all that bright about the subject, but we are well-intentioned, and love a mystery.[/blockquote]

Eric Davis, PHD, FBIS-

[blockquote]Dr. Richard Boylan, Armen Victorian (of Lobster Magazine), and their coterie
of paraphrenic UFO doomsday conspiracy cults are the primary fabricators and
promoters of this absurdly false propaganda that the Aviary was a network of
UFO disinformation assets.

The reasons for Boylan et al.'s rabid lies about the Aviary are:

1) paraphrenia;
2) complete and total jealousy;
3) self-aggrandizing, self-promoting agenda to call public attention to
themselves when they possess no knowledge of or any connections to UFO
insiders in government and defense industry;
4) these folks feel left out of the loop so therefore they attack the few
folks who were in the loop;
5) and they each suffer from a complete lack of critical thinking skills.

Bob Collins gave you the totally correct and completely honest answers to
your questions.

Regards,

Eric (personal friend and colleague of many Aviary members)

Eric W. Davis, Ph.D., FBIS
Inst. for Advanced Studies at Austin.[/blockquote]

Hal puthoff, PHD-

[blockquote]Bob, Kit and Eric have it right.

It was some time before I found out I was a "member" of the Aviary. I checked with Bill Moore to find out what this was all about, and he told me that when he and Jaime talked on the phone about others, they assigned them bird names so that a potential listener would not know who they were talking about. Who knows, you could be a member of the Aviary if they decided to talk about you. Presidents have been given bird names because they were the topic of conversation, and you can be sure they probably never heard of the Aviary.

Best regards,
Hal Puthoff, aka "Owl" in published articles and Internetmania[/blockquote]

Bruce Maccabee, PHD-

[blockquote]I'll second... or third... that.[/blockquote]

Brian Parks- (Contributed to Bob Wood' investigation of SOM 1-01)

[blockquote]I knew Bill Moore very well between 1983 and 94 and can vouch for this. The Bird names were also a way Bill and Jaime could talk about people in public and on the phone without using real names. Protecting sensitive sources is just good journalism. I still have some notes that say “from Partridge” on them. Anyone want to confess to that Bird Name? The total was 12 at one point and I think not everyone knew what there bird name was? It is amazing how people with no clue have turned this informal group into some Disinformation Conspiracy!

Brian Parks

Torrance, Ca[/blockquote]

Those who continue to perpetuate this myth of the Aviary being a Counter Intelligence network. should visit www.mythologist.co.uk for more information re: "Dr Armen Victorian" (AKA- 'Henry' Habib Azadehdel)



posted on Nov, 11 2006 @ 02:17 PM
link   
I feel the need to step in here to some extent... Kit Green is a fine gentleman and in my humble opinion a very open and very honest person. I have had the pleasure of speaking with him on SEVERAL issues over the past months and in every case I have found him to be extremely intelligent and completely honest with me to the extent he can be (classified information is naturally excluded form our conversations).

To think that the Aviary is some part of the "cabal" is an interesting exercise to be sure but a fruitless one in my mind. Every person I have discussed this with has represented it the same way it is represented in "ufonaut's" post above.

In as much as my personal ability to "read people" is satisfactory I would stake my 1/3 ownership of AboveTopSecret.com on the fact Kit Green is exactly who and what he says he is.


Springer...

[edit on 11-11-2006 by Springer]



posted on Nov, 11 2006 @ 06:49 PM
link   
I am tired of the utter horse hockey that is apparently being spread by some VERY confused or very complicit people.

It has been brought to my attention that there are those "out there" who simply refuse to accept the fact that Centrist and "company" acted alone, completely WITHOUT our knowledge when they extracted the information they got from VM by "spoofing" him. They either refuse or it serves their purposes to further a "theory" they mistakingly married several months ago.

I still don't understand why they think just because Centrist was our attorney at one point,means we would know what he was doing. He is a MUCH brighter fellow than that and kept ALL his dealings in this realm very quiet, to himself and his "team", that's how he DID what he did. Had he been dim witted enough to spread it around his plan would have failed for certain.

None the less there are those who simply can't or don't want to accept the truth about this, much like they seem to have a hard time accepting the truth about several things. To them I say... that's your issue and yours alone.


The simple facts are much less intriguing and frankly rather boring...

I had never heard of or even knew about the existence of "Centrist", that I can remember, prior to his authoring of the serpo thread . That thread, it's subject matter especially, drew our attention and interest to the point we interviewed Bill Ryan on our podcast, the only "interview" we've ever done.

It should be pretty obvious to a person of average intelligence we were simply fascinated with the story. Centrist and I had reason to communicate about the thread and interview and I discovered he was an IP attorney with one of the BEST firms on the planet. That was a no brainer for me, here's a guy who "understands" our genre and is interested in helping with IP legal issues as they may arise.


Wow, exciting huh?


Well the people "who obviously never hired a law firm before but watch way too many movies" take that simple business transaction, and all five minutes of interaction it entailed and create, in their own minds, some huge conspiratorial relationship that is 100% false, and horribly misinformed.


I don't know about business on serpo but here on Earth, we are way too busy running and building a website that attracts millions of people a month to worry about, or even know about what someone, even our attorney, was doing.


There it is, the TRUTH out for everyone to see.

Frankly had I known about what Centrist was doing, when he was doing it, I wouldn't have cared anyway, not a bit. Why would I care what he does with his free time?

To think there is some reason we would "cover that up" is as ludicrous as thinking we did know just because he was one of our lawyers.
WHY would I care if anyone knows that I knew? Why would I care what anyone thinks about serpo or anything having to do with it? My only ineterest has been watching the fine work of RU as they uncovered what could be uncovered. There are many who are unconvinced by that work, that's OK too, it's a FREE WORLD think what you want.


There isn't any cover up or anything else which must, understandably, be pretty hard to take when you've spent months certain that there has to be one. There IS, however a huge thread, for ALL to see and read that illustrates exactly what happened to serpo under the scrutiny of the ATS Membership. In chronological order no less!


Gladly, ATS is home to the finest minds on the internet and millions of them at that. There's a reason those millions come here every month and just maybe, when some of these folks who can't let the sadly wrong theories go figure that reason out they too will enjoy such companionship and community.




Springer...

[edit on 11-12-2006 by Springer]



posted on Nov, 12 2006 @ 07:24 AM
link   
RE: Shawna post:


Can you enlighten us as to why you have taken it upon yourself to destroy app. 30% of the RU forum work product thereby making the entire board all but unintelligible? Is it because your "...entire life turned upside...?" I find that such a self-destructive fit of petulance says more about you than even the messages you deleted.

Just a thought.

[edit on 12-11-2006 by boycotteverything]



posted on Nov, 12 2006 @ 08:02 AM
link   

Originally posted by rdube02

If you're saying that if you see the original email, jeddyhi, that you'd be willing to finally accept the truth - we'll forward you the original, with full header - as an attachment - not as "pasted" text.

-Ry


First of all, I want to thank Ry and Zep for being cooperative and helpful and understanding what I wanted to see. For the record, I have received an email which contains the first anonymous email as an attachment with it's own header. I was able to expand this header and answer my own questions. I always had a sneaking suspicion that Doty's IP was simply lifted from one of his emails and inserted into the text version of the header that is displayed at serpo.info.

Well, I stand corrected. The IP of the sender is most definitely 71.37.144.20
And this IP is correctly associated with Rick Doty as emails coming from him have had this IP. The Bombshell email displayed at RU contains this line of info:

4 Nov to 29 Nov
71.37.144.20
22 Rick Doty
7 Paul McGovern
ANON 1st e-mail

I have to agree with that at this time. And again thank Ry and Zep for sending me the actual raw data I requested. We have had our ups and downs and downright nasty disagreements over Serpo, but I sincerely respect them for sharing that info with me as I requested it. Any thoughts of RU manipulating the header info themselves as been laid to rest for me. If the email header was tampered with, and that is not beyond the realm of impossible, it wasn't by RU. Of this I'm postive.

But once again, Doty could be the conduit, not the author. I quote Ry below from an earlier post in this thread.


Originally posted by rdube02
Now...with that said...

There is one other scenerio. Even though Doty SENT it...doesn't necessarily mean he wrote it. It is a completely acceptable (and very logical) theory that others could have written it and had him send it out (this could also be the case for the Paul McGovern confirmations - and most of the other confirmation statements.)

But, I'm sorry - it has been proven beyond any reasonable doubt that Doty sent this stuff out to Victor.

-Ry


To sum up, I concur and publicly state that in my personal opinion, the very first anonymous email does indeed contain a known IP that Doty has used. The chances of this email coming from his PC are very high, if not 100%.

I know a lot of you accepted this long ago, and for the most part, so did I. But with never having actually analyzed the actual header and and IP myself, lingering doubts remained. Not any longer!!



posted on Nov, 12 2006 @ 09:02 AM
link   
Jed,
My feeling is that Doty was the conduit for this information. I believe there was another source involved. I base this in part on an email exchange between BR and myself in late February, 2006 concerning Doty's article in UFO Magazine from that period. This is an excerpt from Bill's email:

"Rick Doty was quoting me – he lifted the last paragraph or so of his UFO Magazine piece from something I’d written earlier (I think in a message to Victor’s list, but I actually can’t remember right now without checking). But you’re right to spot the similarity... those were my words. Doty sent his draft piece to both Victor and myself for us to proofread (because he’s not a fluent writer and doesn’t claim to be). I think he struggled over his article a little and when I saw he’d borrowed from something I’d written myself earlier, that was fine by me. Well done for your sharp eyes, and I hope this answers the good question you raised."

Doty is a notoriously dysfunctional writer.

So even though the first Anon email was sent by Doty it was probably the work of at least two people. My theory is, based upon the above- and the writing styles exhibited in EFD- that the email was, at the least, created or edited by Bob Collins.

[edit on 12-11-2006 by boycotteverything]

[edit on 12-11-2006 by boycotteverything]



posted on Nov, 12 2006 @ 11:28 AM
link   
I'll give you props for divorcing a bad theory.


It's pretty easy to get caught up in whirlwind of what appears to be exciting revelation and discovery, it's another thing entirely to realize it's a load of bollocks and it's frustrating, sometimes embarrassing and usually a let down.

I've said it many times, the essence of critical thought is the ability and willingness to toss a theory that has been proven false or incorrect (there's a difference). Those who can't do this are either paraphrenic or complicit, the former is pretty typical and the latter is pretty pathetic.

It's GOOD to see people I know are intelligent, see the reality of the situation for what it is when presented with the facts.


I also know that you are not declaring slurpo a "hoax" you are simply stating that, in your opinion, RD's computer is where the original Anon email emanated from, fair enough.

Springer...



posted on Nov, 12 2006 @ 12:09 PM
link   

Originally posted by Springer
I'll give you props for divorcing a bad theory.


It's pretty easy to get caught up in whirlwind of what appears to be exciting revelation and discovery, it's another thing entirely to realize it's a load of bollocks and it's frustrating, sometimes embarrassing and usually a let down.

I've said it many times, the essence of critical thought is the ability and willingness to toss a theory that has been proven false or incorrect (there's a difference). Those who can't do this are either paraphrenic or complicit, the former is pretty typical and the latter is pretty pathetic.

It's GOOD to see people I know are intelligent, see the reality of the situation for what it is when presented with the facts.


I also know that you are not declaring slurpo a "hoax" you are simply stating that, in your opinion, RD's computer is where the original Anon email emanated from, fair enough.

Springer...


The fact that the first email came from Doty really solves nothing. The real questions still remain: who is behind this crap and why?

My own feeling is this:

Bob Collins and Kit Green et al colluded with Doty to splash this story onto the net. They stovepiped it Victor Martinez who recruited Bill Ryan to make it all public. Bren, from OM, saw an opportunity to use all of this (dis)information to grow his pathetic forum with the help of Ryan Dube and Steve Whateverhisnameis.

The question remains- why? To sell a book? To disclose? Just for the hell of it? Who knows... .

But in the mean-time people have been destroyed, hair has turned grey and the teapot-tempast continues.

People like Shawna have become unhinged, indulging in abject character assassination of the various levels of the 'stovepiped'- Bill Ryan and Victor Martinez.

Jeezizzzzz.

And after it all, after all the bull#, the destruction, the sackcloth and forlock tugging... I still believe that there is an overriding reason for the promotion of the saga.



posted on Nov, 12 2006 @ 12:25 PM
link   

Originally posted by Springer
I also know that you are not declaring slurpo a "hoax" you are simply stating that, in your opinion, RD's computer is where the original Anon email emanated from, fair enough.

Springer...


Thank you for the kind words, Springer. And you are correct that I'm not declaring "slurpo" a hoax. And I probably never will. I have an issue with how the word "hoax" is used by most of those involved with researching Serpo. I can state that I believe Serpo to be dis-info. But hoax and dis-info are completely different to me. For example, if a guy throws a vintage hubcap in the air, snaps some photos and proclaims he is being visited by ETs, then he is indeed a hoaxer. But if the same guy throws up the hubcap and takes photos and tells his story of ETs in order to keep attention from a real sighting down the street, then he is passing dis-info. Dis-info, by its own nature, is false information.

I think it is more of an actual dis-information campaign. I mean Doty is a known Dis-info agent of the past. Not a hoaxer. His speciality was distraction. To keep the attention away from something else.

With Doty as a conduit of the information, coupled with a plot full of inconsistencies, the Serpo story is outlandish enough to attract attention, but has built in fuses to control backlash.

If Serpo was a simple hoax, more time and effort would have been devoted to the finer details. But it does fit the bill for a somewhat hastily thrown together dis-info campaign. At least in my opinion.

In so much that a dis-info story is, by its own nature, false information, then Serpo shouldn't be considered true. But that doesn't mean Serpo must be classified as a hoax by default either. False information can be labeled as "not true" but that doesn't mean all false information is therefore a hoax. For example, if you ask me how to get to the Post Office and I tell you false directions to lead you away from the Post Office, You have fallen victim to dis-info, not a hoax.

In short, with Doty's involvment in the releases, the idea of the Serpo story being a dis-info campaign is much more plausible than Serpo being an outright hoax.

With that said, I have nevered declared Serpo to be true. I have had my doubts on much of the material since the beginning and my fellow Mods at OM are well aware of this. So by default, if I believe serpo to be not true, then I must feel it is false information. But false information does not, by default, suggest hoax. In this case, especially with Doty's involvment, I feel it suggests dis-info. A dis-information campaign with a purpose. What that purpose may be is my next direction of research.

This is all just my opinion and I in no way speak for or pretend to represent the collective thoughts of OM. We are of many different views and this post reflects only my personal opinion.



posted on Nov, 12 2006 @ 01:00 PM
link   

Originally posted by boycotteverything
I fully expect Springer to ban me yet again. It's ok. I've been banned by OM, RU, ED, ATS. Truth is hard. K


Yeah I fully expect it to. After all, it is your specialty. So by showing manners ( by saying thank you ) I'm a suck up? Perhaps if you would use a little more professionalism and manners, you might last longer than the occasional 1 or 2 days you seem to last. Getting your point across should be more important than forcing people to ban you.

[edit on 11/12/2006 by Jeddyhi]



posted on Nov, 12 2006 @ 01:03 PM
link   

Originally posted by boycotteverything
"Thank you for the kind words, Springer."

cowardice is the last refuge of cowards


getting banned repeatedly is the last refuge of trolls.



posted on Nov, 12 2006 @ 01:07 PM
link   
Hi there Toon! It so good to see you are able to post somewhere - at least for the time being.



Rather than address your name calling, I'd like to address your question about who was behind Doty in all of this.

And this will not sit well with Springer so I may be banned as well too. So be it. Shawnna EDIT - This was a poorly choosen attempt at humor).


I do believe Kit Green (and perhaps others) were behind Doty. And this is not based on my personal conversations or interactions with him. It is based on my access to other evidence and some significant research into his past.

There are those who will interpret this to mean that there was actually something factural in Serpo - which couldn't be further from the truth. None of what has been published by Collins, Doty, or anyone else is classified information. Rather - those behind Doty - Kit and others - are individuals who have created a "core story" and are convinced that they are responsible for somehow bringing that "core story" to the public.

That said - I will leave it at that. I'm sure at some point the facts will be presented such that even Springer will give his position on Kit second thoughts.

In the meantime Springer - can I take you up on your 1/3 ownership bet?

Oh wait..... I have nothing to bet that could even come close to the value of your ante.



Always,
Shawnna

[edit on 12-11-2006 by Shawnna]

[edit on 12-11-2006 by Shawnna]




top topics



 
4
<< 7  8  9    11  12  13 >>

log in

join