Hmmm I find it strange that ATS members are not interested in such a conspiracy...

I saw this story on HDNET a week or so ago. It was pretty interesting.

I have no problems with an electric car.

It makes sense, but we need to wait longer for it to be a reality...we need some battery breakthroughs...something better then li-ion.

The plug-in prius is a good start though.

[edit on 7-6-2006 by Murcielago]

This is EXACTLY the type of conspiracy I actually believe in. Our adherence to oil, ICEs, coal, and other fossil fuels is just embarassing. We, as a culture, know the dangers, and we know te consequences. It's time to just bite the bullet and get these technologies into common usage. It may mean raises in taxes up front, but so many of our problems would disappear.

I really, really hope that someone with some brains and some testicular fortitude gets in charge of these United States and makes a REAL difference.

Yeah...and monkeys might fly outta my butt!

posted by RockerDom
“This is the type of conspiracy I believe in. Our adherence to oil, coal, and fossil fuels is embarrassing. We know the dangers, we know the consequences. It's time to bite the bullet and get the technology into common usage. It may mean raises in taxes up front . . “ [Edited by Don W]

Whoa up there, R/D! What’s wrong with the Free Market paying its own way? How come the first time anybody thinks of something new (and highly profitable) the US taxpayers have to take a beating? Where is this private is best crapola I keep hearing? Methinks I smell hypocrisy about.

“ . . so many of our problems would disappear. I really hope that someone with some brains and some fortitude gets in charge of these United States and makes a REAL difference.

Problems disappear? Yeah, along with our hard earned cash.

Q. If the US gives ADM - Archer Daniels Midland - $15 million a year, how long before the US owns ADM?


[edit on 6/6/2006 by donwhite]

If you're using electricity from the grid, keep in mind

transfer losses (including transformers)

charging losses - battery heats up while charging

discharging losses - heats up again when discharged

battery weight



when using hybrids without drawing power from the grid, the first point doesn't apply, obviously.


The main point is, the electric drive motor may be extremely efficient, but overall efficiency drops as you keep adding things to your car. consumption, btw is only a part of the deal, if you support the notion that price roughly translates into energy use, you'll see that it takes ages to consume the amount of energy used to produce the car. Sure, the energy used for production isn't necessarily derived from oil, but you get my drift, don't you? the same goes for fuel cells, hydrogen has to be produced, overall efficiency is all that counts, a fact which remains overlooked, since more complexity equals higher profits.


if you are serious about saving energy, the car's weight needs to be drastically reduced, which means no more piston engines, the introduction of electric drivetrains and probably condensers instead of batteries for short term use only. no need to store a lot of unused energy, it's always costly, quickly outweighing the benefits.

0.02

posted by Long Lance
Electric drive motors are extremely efficient . . overall efficiency drops as you add things to your car. if you are serious about saving energy, the car's weight needs to be drastically reduced [Edited by Don W]

Look back to the mid 1980s. The last time we tried to make sensibly sized and sensibly powered motor vehicles. Smallish cars like a Buick Century were powered by 4 cylinder engines of 2 liter capacity. 2,800 pounds dry. Overrated at 100 hp to sell better. Now, you can’t buy such a car. Sure, Buick (and Olds and Pontiac) is out of business now but not for that reason.

We can tell when the nation’s leaders become serious about conserving a finite resource when we see the CAFÉ at 50 mpg, and going to 60. And a substantial penally added for vehicles weighing over 1,000 kg. And no more Porsche SUVs weighing in at 5,000 lbs and electronically speed limited to 155 mph. Say hello to the crusher.

“ . . no more piston engines, the introduction of electric drive trains and condensers instead of batteries for short term use only . . to store unused energy is always costly, quickly outweighing the benefits.

We see Iran’s threat to withdraw 1.5 mb/d from the world’s daily oil supply has pushed the world’s greatest risk taker, Geo W, to talk to Iran face to face. So also when the inevitable “demand exceeds supply” condition arrives, it will push gas prices to the point where rationing is the only viable solution for the US. And we’ll find America’s fleet filled with 5,000 lb SUVs.

Escalades and Navigators will be stacked in the salvage yards. Corollas will bring five-fold their original cost. And you’ll see millions of Americans riding to work on motorcycles, as we once watched movies showing us how the Japanese and other Orientals commuted. It will be us big, overweight Occidentals pumping the bicycles.

As smart as we are, ethanol will not save us, despite the heavy advertising of Archer Daniels Midland. Senator Dole’s favorite charity.



[edit on 6/7/2006 by donwhite]

If nuke power plants supply the energy to electric cars then I'm ok with it. Otherwise they waste 3 time the energy of gasoline powered cars..........

posted by thermopolis

If nuclear power plants supply the energy to electric cars then I'm ok with it. Otherwise they [electric cars] waste 3 times the energy of gasoline powered cars . . “
[Edited by Don W]

Yes, T/M, you are right. OTOH, as long as the Pope and America’s Born Agains make world policy and forbid using condoms or aborting unneeded people in the making, the future of civilization is bleak. Population demographics, despite our best efforts which are blocked, already point to adding 2 billion more to the existing 6.5 billion. Which are struggling to share a planet capable of supporting only 2 billion people in the style to which we were accustomed. Dire warnings of over-population have been out there ever since Malthus.

The material limiting factors on population are oil and water. Both are finite. The only reason Saudi Arabia can lead the world in de-salinization is for them, the energy required is “free.” Even though world food production continues to rise, the increase is due mainly to the ever increasing use of chemicals.

Even if we ignore the potential risks of cancer and other disorders, as we do, this has a soap bubble effect waiting. When the production “bubble” bursts, that is, when more chemicals do not equate into more food, production will not fall a little bit, it will fall a lot. And suddenly. How long ago was it that Margaret Sanger asked the world to take heed? Will the RCC ultimately canonize her? We’ll see.