U.S. ARMY to Delete Geneva Protocols

regradless of whom the geneva conventions apply and do not apply to, it no skin off our well padded arses to behave better than our opponants.

My kid's at West Point. I don't DARE ask him about this. I'm afraid of what he'll tell me.

I was never a big fan of the Geneva Convention. A country that plays by the rules is put at a disadvantage going against countries or organizations that don't.

Can someone tell me when Al-Queda signed the Geneva Convention?

That's a nice strawman. Since they don't play by the rules neither shall we! Can you please tell me why the entire world hates and resents your country again? I cannot come up with an answer....

We are hated because we do not enforce our own laws. And the hatred is deserved, in spades.

Originally posted by sardion2000

I was never a big fan of the Geneva Convention. A country that plays by the rules is put at a disadvantage going against countries or organizations that don't.

Can someone tell me when Al-Queda signed the Geneva Convention?

That's a nice strawman. Since they don't play by the rules neither shall we! Can you please tell me why the entire world hates and resents your country again? I cannot come up with an answer....

REPLY: History shows that it is usually the agressor that sets the tone of the retaliation. It used to be that way for the allies in WW2 and before that. It used to be the way to win a war was to inflict as many civilian casualties as possible, which would turn "the people" against those instigating the war(s).

However, America has since designed weapons that are very precise, in order to inflict as little collateral damage as possible. Yet, when collateral damage occurs, we are vilified as being murderous thugs, not caring about civilians. Iraq never did sign the G.C.

To answer your question, hardly the "entire world". Some of the leaders in a few countries don't like America because we don't kowtow to what THEY want to do. Just because we didn't wait for France and Germany to get with the war against Saddam (NOT Iraq), they are mad at us. For those who don't know, going to war without France is like going hunting without a garbage disposal. Of course, now we know that France, Germany and Russia (not to mention Mr. Kofi of the UN, and his son) were against the war because they were hip deep in the "oil for fraud" program.

Those leaders of the few other countries who don't like us are still mad because in less than 230 years, America has raised the baseline of the human condition more-so than those countries have in 500 years, and longer.

What absurd notions of why so many in the world hate the American government and the corporations for which it stands. The reasons that hate our politics are essentially twofold.

(1) the huge gap between our reteroic and our actions, the do as I say, not as I do attitude...in the cold war epecially we spouted alot about democracy but when push came to shove, if the population elected a socialist or leftist government democratically (remember Chile and Salvador Allende?) we wouldmore likely than not work to overthrow it and install a strongman more to our liking. This very act is why the Iranians hate us so...in 53 they rose up and overthrew the hated shah, established a left leaning republic, the CIA went in, overthrew it and planted the Shah back on the peacock throne for another 25 years, until an even more hostile revolution took place, the rest is history.

(2) We or should I say our government will more often than not support the wants of the multi-nationals over the needs and wants of the local governments anyday. The situition in the Nigerian delta with Exxon/Mobil running roughshod over the populous is a prime example...the Indian situition with Enron is another one, Enron sold a power plant transmission line network to the Indian government (based on bribes of course) that was far larger than it needed for the area it was to serve and our government did everything in its power to prevent the Indian government from backing out of a bad deal, even as Enron was falling apart. Still are for that matter.

If you don't believe me go to www.watchingamerica.com and educate yourselves. It is real eye opening to read what the papers from around the world have to say about us outside the glare of our own propaganda machines.

Grover,
Don't you think that much has to do with the fact that we are #1. We are the biggest target to direct their frustrations at. we know just from our own society, that it is easier to blame someone for our short-comings, than to blame ourselves. It is also very easy to hate that which we do not understand or can not compete with.

Originally posted by semperfortis
Grover,
Don't you think that much has to do with the fact that we are #1. We are the biggest target to direct their frustrations at. we know just from our own society, that it is easier to blame someone for our short-comings, than to blame ourselves. It is also very easy to hate that which we do not understand or can not compete with.

Very true. One also has to know that what the young people are taught in schools in many other countries have no relationship to the facts. Even here in America, kids are being taught that America is the worst polluting country; our air is the dirtiest, etc. If America is so bad, why do people continue to do most anything to get here?

The "blame America first" crowd is everywhere, including here.

@#$%^&*!!!! I am so bloody sick and tired of the damned idiotic "blame America first" excuse for NOT looking at how our policies affect how the rest of the world sees us...it is so simplistic it makes me sick. Of course the fact that we are the world's superpower affects how we are viewed but so does our reteroic and our conduct, and when the two are in such glaring conflict as they are, what the bloody hell do you expect. Get your damned heads out of the sand and take a look around, you might be surprised at what you see.

Originally posted by grover
@#$%^&*!!!! I am so bloody sick and tired of the damned idiotic "blame America first" excuse for NOT looking at how our policies affect how the rest of the world sees us...it is so simplistic it makes me sick. Of course the fact that we are the world's superpower affects how we are viewed but so does our reteroic and our conduct, and when the two are in such glaring conflict as they are, what the bloody hell do you expect. Get your damned heads out of the sand and take a look around, you might be surprised at what you see.

REPLY: I know.... it must hurt terribly to know that in Iraq and Iran our policies liberated some 70 million people, and two generations ago our ideals helped the liberation of hundreds of millions in Europe from Communism and Fascism. I haven't had sand in my ears for decades. I understand what you are talking about, and can think of many examples of what you speak, but the end result is usually liberty and freedom for all..... not so that other countries will be/act like America, but so those people can choose for themselves how they want to be governed; how they want to live.

Spreading the ideas of Democracy is not a bad thing, as truly Democratic countries rarely go to war with each other. No, America is not a Democracy, but we operate under a few democratic principles. And, no, Iraq was not a democracy or a soverign country, because a countries sovereignty depends on the freedom of it's peoples.

Originally posted by zappafan1

Originally posted by grover
@#$%^&*!!!! I am so bloody sick and tired of the damned idiotic "blame America first" excuse for NOT looking at how our policies affect how the rest of the world sees us...it is so simplistic it makes me sick. Of course the fact that we are the world's superpower affects how we are viewed but so does our reteroic and our conduct, and when the two are in such glaring conflict as they are, what the bloody hell do you expect. Get your damned heads out of the sand and take a look around, you might be surprised at what you see.

REPLY: I know.... it must hurt terribly to know that in Iraq and Iran our policies liberated some 70 million people, and two generations ago our ideals helped the liberation of hundreds of millions in Europe from Communism and Fascism.

Where the hell do you get off laying that stupid trip on me? I know good and well we have done plenty of good in the world and it does not hurt me terribly thank you very much but I also know we have shot ourselves in the foot plenty of times too and it does no good to ignore our failures...we can only learn from them.

There's active aggression; and then there's passive aggression.

Neo-Conservativism has gone from passive to active; and now they are actively destroying civilization, for their own profits/prophets.

Maybe we ought to think about this some more.

Very sad and troubling news (IF it's true). Not just for the US but for other countries who are seen to be the US's travelling companions in this crusade.

A further step in the US's slide into complete moral bankrupcy.

I'm sure I heard US politicians whining about pictures of US dead being shown and citing the Geneva protocols when they did so. Didn't they ban Al Jazeera from their press conferences for a time because of this?

My sympathies to those Americans who deplore this slide and realise such redrawing of the rules will impact on them, their country and their soldiers.

Oh and no US military leaders will ever be tried for war crimes unless it's by the US itself - you opted out of the international criminal court (a cynic would say it's because the US leaders already know what they're doing is illegal) indeed military force is authorised to FREE any US citizen brought before the court.

So now you answer to no-one and will actually use force to attack a court to which the majority of the World are signatories.

en.wikipedia.org...

I also can't think why many many people now hate the US!

Originally posted by grover
@#$%^&*!!!! I am so bloody sick and tired of the damned idiotic "blame America first" excuse for NOT looking at how our policies affect how the rest of the world sees us...

You worry way too much about the way the rest of the world thinks of us. Would any of them lift a finger to help up if we were in trouble? The answer is NO.

This is not to say we should be unconcerned, but our first priority should be to ensure that our own best interests are served, not what someone thinks of us.

zappafan1, I agree with your sentiments.

You have voted zappafan1 for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

So all those troops from elsewhere looking after 1/3rd of Iraq are ficticious?

The 15,000 NATO troops in Afghanistan are ficticious?

Aid flown-in after Katrina didn't happen either?

IIRC they're from the 'other countries' you're so quick to dismiss

You're very quick to forget when people come to your aid aren't you?

Gee....I must of imagined all those expressions of condolance after 9/11 and all those offers of help after katrina.

Washington Post

Twenty-seven religious leaders, including megachurch pastor Rick Warren, Nobel laureate Elie Wiesel and Cardinal Theodore E. McCarrick of Washington, have signed a statement urging the United States to "abolish torture now - without exceptions."

The statement, being published in newspaper advertisements starting today, is the opening salvo of a new organization called the National Religious Campaign Against Torture, which has formed in response to allegations of human rights abuse at U.S. detention centers in Iraq, Afghanistan and Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

Titled "Torture is a Moral Issue," the statement says that torture "violates the basic dignity of the human person" and "contradicts our nation's most cherished values." "Nothing less is at stake in the torture abuse crisis than the soul of our nation. What does it signify if torture is condemned in word but allowed in deed?" it asks.

The signers come from a broad range of denominations and include notable religious conservatives, such as the Rev. Ted Haggard, president of the National Association of Evangelicals; Archbishop Demetrios, primate of the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America; and the Rev. William J. Byron, former president of Catholic University.

By suggesting that recent abuse of prisoners may not be just an aberration but a reflection of U.S. policy, the statement contains an implicit challenge to the Bush administration, according to some signers.

"I'm not persuaded that this issue has been put to bed yet by the Bush administration," said David P. Gushee, a philosophy professor at Union University in Tennessee who wrote an influential article against torture this year in Christianity Today, an evangelical magazine. "I'm worried that we still don't truly know what is going on in all our detention centers around the world."

US goverment says YES to Torture -

Religiours Leaders say NO.

Go Figure...

pathetic, truly pathetic.

Originally posted by Strangerous
So all those troops from elsewhere looking after 1/3rd of Iraq are ficticious?

The 15,000 NATO troops in Afghanistan are ficticious?

Aid flown-in after Katrina didn't happen either?

IIRC they're from the 'other countries' you're so quick to dismiss

You're very quick to forget when people come to your aid aren't you?

REPLY: Thanks, jsobecky!!!

As for the above, thanks for reminiding everyone we DID NOT go into this war alone. As an aside, we, and many countries, did not sign up for the international court because it would supercede our Constitution. One should look into what "rights" you have in that court; practically none, compared to the rights we have here in America.