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U.S. ARMY to Delete Geneva Protocols

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posted on Jun, 5 2006 @ 01:18 PM
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The United States Army has decided to re-write the book on Intelligence Interrogations. A particular paragraph regarding the "humiliating and degrading treatment," of prisoners from the Geneva Convention is to be ommitted. Along with this ommssion, other Guidlines are being rewritten in order to allow the ARMY to detain prisoners and question them effectively.
 



www.latimes.com
WASHINGTON — The Pentagon has decided to omit from new detainee policies a key tenet of the Geneva Convention that explicitly bans "humiliating and degrading treatment," according to knowledgeable military officials, a step that would mark a further, potentially permanent, shift away from strict adherence to international human rights standards.

The decision could culminate a lengthy debate within the Defense Department but will not become final until the Pentagon makes new guidelines public, a step that has been delayed. However, the State Department fiercely opposes the military's decision to exclude Geneva Convention protections and has been pushing for the Pentagon and White House to reconsider, the Defense Department officials acknowledged.

For more than a year, the Pentagon has been redrawing its policies on detainees, and intends to issue a new Army Field Manual on interrogation, which, along with accompanying directives, represents core instructions to U.S. soldiers worldwide.




Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


The United States Army - friend and protector of freedom loving peoples all over the world has decided that they need to shift away from a doctrine that includes human rights. The decision to omit a section of the Geneva Convention from the ARMY Field Manual on Interrogation is a backdoor method that will allow Abu-Graib and other similar situations to become commonplace.



Related News Links:
news.yahoo.com




posted on Jun, 5 2006 @ 08:44 PM
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great! smart move donald...we stop applying the geneva convention but watch us howl if others treat us the same. damned neo-cons think the rules do not apply to them....fools.



posted on Jun, 5 2006 @ 10:13 PM
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Originally posted by grover
great! smart move donald...we stop applying the geneva convention but watch us howl if others treat us the same. damned neo-cons think the rules do not apply to them....fools.



Ha ha ha ha ha...

Oh wait, you were serious???

Okay, I can possibly get behind some kind of moral justification for not changing this, but a "watch how we get treated in return" kind of justification is absurd.

In case you haven't been paying attention, in this war, "others" cut off our heads when they catch us. I can't wait until they "treat us the same." You?

[edit on 5-6-2006 by Hamburglar]



posted on Jun, 5 2006 @ 10:17 PM
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Originally posted by Hamburglar
"others" cut off our heads when they catch us.


I don't recall that being the official policy of any other 'civilized' state. Do you?

I'm sorry, but I happen to think that if humanity is ever to have a chance at a better world, it starts with recognizing that you can't champion civility while hypocritically engaging in the very acts that make you no better than the animals you fight against.

[edit on 5-6-2006 by loam]



posted on Jun, 5 2006 @ 10:22 PM
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I'm finding it difficult to believe the U.S. military would purposely back away from the Geneva Protocols. Some in the Defense Dept. may want to do so, but I don't think such a policy change will ever get approved.



posted on Jun, 5 2006 @ 10:24 PM
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Originally posted by grover
great! smart move donald...we stop applying the geneva convention but watch us howl if others treat us the same. damned neo-cons think the rules do not apply to them....fools.


Yeah US troops have always gotten such great treatment when they were POWs
before and after geneva convention.

The Japanese in WW2 the Korean in the Korean war and the VC in Vietnam they all followed the geneva convention so great when they had American POW. Now the Islamic fighters yeah they treat POWs great.



posted on Jun, 5 2006 @ 10:27 PM
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Oh, it will get approved if its not approved already. This way, the heat is off Rumsfeld and even Bush.
Neither will be arrested for crimes and atrocities, they'll be covered.
Anything goes. The world must be subdued by the USA.
Who'd have thunk?



posted on Jun, 5 2006 @ 10:28 PM
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Originally posted by ShadowXIX
Yeah US troops have always gotten such great treatment when they were POWs
before and after geneva convention.

The Japanese in WW2 the Korean in the Korean war and the VC in Vietnam they all followed the geneva convention so great when they had American POW. Now the Islamic fighters yeah they treat POWs great.


And we were always 'better' than them, because we did differently.

Now, it appears we do not want to merely defeat our enemies, but emulate their thinking... Good job at building a better world for our children!



[edit on 5-6-2006 by loam]



posted on Jun, 5 2006 @ 10:29 PM
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I agree with Hamburgler on the point that we should not kid ourselves about how civilians and our own service men and woman are treated by the enemy.

Torture happens, we know it happens and to think that the terrorists are following the geneva conventions is just too naive.

BUT! We keep talking about how we are leaders of this new world, we stand for something we set examples that we want others to look up to and strive for.

Haditha is a fine example. I don't want this to degenerate into a flame war but what may or may not have happened in the end is not the point. Accountability is the point. Abu Garib, it happened, and the ones that were easy to blame were held accountable.

We can't take out the geneva convention banning inhumane treatment because the next time we try to take the moral high ground we'll look idiotic. And now more than ever international politics are just as important as national politics.

We should also not kid ourselves about another thing. Torture is happening from our side as well, it's happening now, someone somewhere in a very small room in a house in the middle of no where is "having a conversation" with a captured terrorist operative of some sort and they are almost certainly not following the geneva convention.

Should they? I don't know, it's tough to say morally, if we know the guy was building the bomb was going to detonate the bomb should we not be allowed to get little stabby with him when we question him?

A moral problem. A problem a country fighting a war supposedly on moral grounds alone shouldn't even think about discussing or in anyway bringing attention to the fact that we may or may not practice what we preach.

Going out of your way to muck around with the geneva conventions is international political suicide. And if you don't think that means something, think again.

THough flippant perhaps, torture is a lot like sneaking out in your parents car. If you do it, be sneaky, be careful, don't talk about it and for gods sake don't get caught.

Spiderj



posted on Jun, 5 2006 @ 10:30 PM
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Everyone that I have talked to that is the know on this subject has always said the same thing, torture does not work. Most people caught do not know that much, and when tortured captives will often say what ever they think you want to hear just to stop being hurt. So really all your doing is needlessly causing pain and suffering.



posted on Jun, 5 2006 @ 10:41 PM
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Originally posted by Mr Mxyztplk
Most people caught do not know that much, and when tortured captives will often say what ever they think you want to hear just to stop being hurt. So really all your doing is needlessly causing pain and suffering.


I can remember siting in a medieval history class, as a child, and thinking, "thank god I was born in a time a place that knew better." Little did I know that, as an adult all these years later, I would find my country supporting the very depravity found in the narrative of that history book.

For all the people who have children and support this policy change, I'd like to know how you explain torture is a good thing?


We really have gone mad.... :shk:

[edit on 5-6-2006 by loam]



posted on Jun, 5 2006 @ 11:00 PM
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For those that use the excuse of "well other countries do it" I really worry about.. I mean, just because others do does it mean you should? cause that opens the doors to a whole lot of cans of worms.



posted on Jun, 5 2006 @ 11:27 PM
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Sorry I feel so strongly about this that I had to post again.
I'm old school I like being part of the good guy's, you having to go that little bit farther just because we are the good guy's. Yes we can do a lot more to defend our selves but at what point are we no longer defending a free country?
Fun fact: did you know that even Nazi Germany recognized the Geneva convention?
Sorry but it's a bad sign when you are doing something even the Nazis wouldn't do.



posted on Jun, 5 2006 @ 11:31 PM
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Originally posted by Mr Mxyztplk

Fun fact: did you know that even Nazi Germany recognized the Geneva convention?
Sorry but it's a bad sign when you are doing something even the Nazis wouldn't do.


Fun fact more like made up fact. The Nazis broke the Geneva convention so many times with Soviet POWs its not even funny.

In a mere eight months of 1941-42, the invading German armies killed an estimated 2.8 million Soviet prisoners-of-war through starvation, exposure, and summary execution.

[edit on 5-6-2006 by ShadowXIX]



posted on Jun, 5 2006 @ 11:38 PM
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Well sort of... Yes the Nazis broke it in regards to Soviet POW's, but with British, American and others it up held the rules scrupulously. The Germans argued that since the Soviets did not sign the accord the rules did not apply to them. But hey what do you expect they were evil



posted on Jun, 5 2006 @ 11:50 PM
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Originally posted by Mr Mxyztplk
. The Germans argued that since the Soviets did not sign the accord the rules did not apply to them. But hey what do you expect they were evil


I dont care what the claimed was the reason, the real reason was As Slavs, they were considered "Untermenschen" -- subhumans -- by the Germans. As far as Nazi forces were concerned, the laws of war did not apply. Neither did basic human rights what the Nazis did was nothing short of attempted genocide




[edit on 5-6-2006 by ShadowXIX]



posted on Jun, 5 2006 @ 11:52 PM
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Originally posted by ShadowXIX
...the laws of war did not apply.



And we are now dangerously close to similar thinking...



posted on Jun, 5 2006 @ 11:55 PM
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Originally posted by loam
And we are now dangerously close to similar thinking...


Not even on the same page. We are talking about "humiliating and degrading treatment" not trying to wipe whole races off the face of the earth.



posted on Jun, 5 2006 @ 11:59 PM
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Slippery slop my friend.



posted on Jun, 6 2006 @ 12:01 AM
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I wont deny that, but I find it going far trying compare anyone to the Nazis. That was a brand of evil people today seem not to fully understand when they throw the word Nazi around.

What exactly is "humiliating and degrading treatment" is however highly debatable.



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