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US expansion into Eurasia - USS Advantage illegally docks in Ukrainian port of Feodosiya

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posted on Jun, 5 2006 @ 10:11 AM
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Even though this particular story is unfolding since May 27th, little reliable information made its way to the media. Various media sources bring widely conflicting reports, yet the reality of the unfolding events is grim.

This is going to be a long post, but since our collective attention is being consistently diverted to the Middle East, a generation defining developments are going unnoticed.

Do to increasingly volatile crisis between Ukraine and Russia, in order to build up military presence US/NATO is conducting a series of joint military exercises, "Sea Breeze 2006" being only the first one planned.

While Viktor Yushchenko is pushing to join NATO, repeated independent polls show that the overwhelming majority of Ukrainians are against NATO membership, and over two thirds of the population will vote for membership with European Union, if it will ever be put to vote.

jamestown.org

Since it is clearly obvious that the population of Ukraine will vote against joining NATO, a series of hard pressed measures are being implemented to stabilise the situation.

Forced NATO exercise is one of such measures, and considering the delicate situation it is clear that its purpose is to further destabilised the region.


Ukrainian opposition lawmakers have demanded the dismissal of the country's foreign and defense ministers, blaming them for allowing a U.S. naval ship to enter the port of Feodosiya in Crimea last week without the required parliamentary authorization.


www.globalsecurity.org...


Since there has been no parliamentary approval for US/NATO forces operations in Crimea, any such activity is illegal under democratic laws of Ukraine. More over, Viktor Yushchenko approved expansion of Sea Breeze 2006 in spite of earlier Parliament vote to bar participation of foreing troops in the exercise.

By allowing a foreign force to illegally conduct military exercise operations on sovereign soil of Ukraine, Yushchenko has violated the constitution and committed high treason.


Natalya Vitrenko, leader of a political party influential on the Black Sea peninsula of Crimea, accused Yushchenko of ignoring legislation which requires parliamentary approval before any foreign military troops or ships enter Ukrainian territory. She also noted that parliament had earlier this year voted to bar foreign troops from participating in military exercises in Ukraine.

“On May 27, an act of high treason was committed by Ukraine’s top officials,” Vitrenko said.


www.mosnews.com...

The fact of the matter is that US engineer core, NAVY Marines and arms/munitions convoys have been blockaded in EVERY single city they have attempted to cross. Some of the cities include Simferopol, Staryy Krym, Partenit, Alusha, etc.

All of the convoys could not reach their destinations and had to be diverted do to overwhelming number of demonstrators which simply blocked all roads.

A convoy of 150 engineer core troops on the way to Staryy Krym base was totally blockaded by demonstrators forcing the convoy to be diverted to the Ministry of Defense sanatory in Partenit, again, the residents of Partenit blockaded the roads and the convoy again was forced to take another detour, this time to another army sanatorium in Alushty. Upon arrival in Alushty the personnel of the sanatorium refused to accept US troops. Local residents immediately began converging on the convoy and forced it out of the area. Upon hearing the news of US convoys, residents of nearby Bolshoi Alushti began constructing another chain of blockades in order to prevent the passage of the convoy through their city.


Anti-NATO protests have been underway in the Crimean port of Feodosiya since May 27 and turned into a round-the-clock, open-ended rally in the port on June 1. Protesters aim to disrupt preparations for Sea Breeze-2006, a major naval and ground-force exercise. On May 27 the U.S. transport ship, Advantage, brought military equipment and personnel to Feodosiya to prepare that exercise. The ship was unable to unload the equipment or land the technical personnel during three days amid local protests. Led by the Party of Regions and leftist pro-Russia groups, protesters claimed that the preparations were unlawful in the absence of parliamentary approval for the exercise. On May 30, the equipment -- including arms and ammunition, Humvees and other military vehicles, container-type structures, and construction materials -- was finally ashore, but the accompanying technical personnel had to turn back with the ship. Pickets blocked all exits from the port to prevent the equipment from being moved to its destination at the Staryy Krym training range.


www.jamestown.org...

mod edit to shorten link



[edit on 5-6-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]




posted on Jun, 5 2006 @ 10:11 AM
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This part is particularly interesting;


Led by the Party of Regions and leftist pro-Russia groups, protesters claimed that the preparations were unlawful in the absence of parliamentary approval for the exercise.


Considering that Crimea is predominantly populated with Russians, the idea of some leftist pro-Russian groups is preposterous, since the majority protests were not organised by parties, but formed upon hearing the news of what residents now call a "invasion of Crimea by NATO aggressors".

The situation has escalated to such an extent, that in order to secure the upcoming re-election, the ill defined illegal conditions of the proposed "exercise" have to be redefined through a media campaign .


Responding to the Feodosiya situation, a May 31 statement by NATO Headquarters in Brussels points out that Sea Breeze is not a NATO exercise, but rather a Ukrainian-U.S. exercise in which NATO countries participate; and that delivery of equipment is a bilateral U.S.-Ukrainian matter, in which NATO as such is not involved. While impeccably accurate for a Western audience, those distinctions will only sound like defensive casuistry to anti-NATO groups in Ukraine, where propaganda from Moscow and local misconception traditionally paints any Western forces with the broad black brush as "Natovtsy." For its part, official Kyiv correctly links the exercises with NATO and the goal to strengthen Ukraine's relations with the alliance. Meanwhile, the public approval rating of NATO in Ukraine is said to be steadily declining (Kyiv Post, May 18).

This situation underscores the urgent need for an information campaign about NATO for the Ukrainian public. However, driven by short-term electoral calculations, Orange leaders (with the notable exception of Minister of Foreign Affairs and Rukh party leader Borys Tarasyuk) have avoided addressing the public forthrightly on this unpopular issue. Without an early start to a public information campaign, the Orange leadership's goal for Ukraine to be invited into NATO by 2010 cannot be successful -- and might even become moot if Yushchenko is swayed into opting for a coalition government with the Party of Regions.


www.jamestown.org...

This development is just another ingredient from a recipe for a civil war, and this time its not Iraqis, not Afghans, this time its Crimean Russians.

I for one do not want another Cuban Missile Crisis, but unfortunately this is where Bush administration is leading us all.




Here's a recap of events.

Aggressive US expansion into Eurasia is forcing another cycle of unrest in the region.

Ukraine is another state that fell to the US sponsored coup d'état of so called "Color revolutions".

Some of the other states that fell include;


Serbia (the 2000 Bulldozer Revolution), Georgia (the 2003 Rose Revolution), Ukraine (the 2004 Orange Revolution), and (though more violent than the previous ones) Kyrgyzstan


en.wikipedia.org...

Chechnya is still a contested region torn by civil war, yet since 1992 their choice of color was green.

Iraq is the latest victim of the armed "democratisation", with Iran already in the cross hairs.

All of the states targeted for armed "Color Revolution Democratisation" share a statistical pattern, they all produce oil or lie in the path of major oil pipe lines.

globalresearch.ca

Some of the states which successfully defeated the overthrow attempts with out falling into civil war include Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, and Belorussia.

Only recently G. W. Bush renounced the president of Belorussia and labeled him as the "last dictator of Europe", broke diplomatic relationship and refused all Belorussian officials entry into US. Similar statements were made after failed coups in Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan.

While mass media reports the final phase of "democratisation" such as demonstrations and social unrest, the preceding operational phases are never reported.

As documented, all Color Revolutions share identical pattern of ruling body elimination by corruption, intimidation or assassination, followed by active political agitation conducted by various newly formed "democratic" groups.

Cuba, Bay of Pigs, etc, the same old record.

Such groups consist of native exiles/dissidents and immigrants brought back into the country, and are openly sponsored by the White House with finances, logistics, equipment, military support, etc.

Do to support from another nation, activities of such pseudo-political groups are considered to be subversive, and are judged illegal and unlawful by all ruling governments.

Ever since the break up of the Soviet block, Crimea being overwhelmingly populated by Russians has made repeated attempts to join Russia or proclaimed its independence from Ukraine.

Crimea is a strategic geo-political hot spot, and has been contested for centuries. During the first Chechen-Russo war, Chechen separatists were engaged in negotiations with Israeli energy firms in order to strike a contract for a pipe line stretching from Baku and across the Black Sea to Turkey.

Do to Russian persistence and continuation of war, the plans for independent Chechen/Crimean - Turko/Israli pipeline were scraped in favor of Caspian Pipeline project.


The BTC (Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan) Oil Pipeline was begun in 2002 after four years of intense international dispute. It cost some $3.6 billion, making it one of the most expensive oil projects ever. The main backer was BP, whose chairman Lord Browne is a close adviser to Britain’s Tony Blair. BP built it in a consortium including Unocal of the US and Turkish Petroleum Inc., and other partners.


globalresearch.ca

Tbilisi is the capital of Georgia, and just as with Ukraine, their mutual political/economic relationship with Russia was systematically sabotaged. One clear example of such sabotage is the continues Chechen separatist use of Georgian/Ukrainian based camps/bases.

To this day Chechen separatist regularly use the safe heaven of Georgian/Ukrainian based camps/bases for regrouping/rehabilitation against ongoing Russian protests.

Thus the ongoing Russian incursions into Ukrainian/Georgian air space. Do to complete lack of Georgian/Ukrainian cooperation in Russian "war on terror" and their refusal to expel Chechen separatists, Russian air force is regularly forced to conduct air strikes on Chechen encampments located well with in the borders of Georgia/Ukraine.

The list goes on.

mod edit to shorten links


[edit on 5-6-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]



posted on Jun, 5 2006 @ 10:17 AM
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Since there has been no parliamentary approval for US/NATO forces operations in Crimea, any such activity is illegal under democratic laws of Ukraine.

What law makes it illegal for a friendly but foreign warship to be in port without parliament's approval?


And if it was illegal, how much worse is it to permit russian troops to occupy the capital or attempt to assasinate a politician???

[edit on 5-6-2006 by Nygdan]



posted on Jun, 5 2006 @ 11:39 AM
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What law makes it illegal for a friendly but foreign warship to be in port without parliament's approval?


The constitution! With out the VOTE of the Parliament, it's called an INVASION and or occupation.

New reports

James Appathurai, official representative of NATO made an official statement flat out denying ANY involvement with Sea Breeze-2006 "exercise", that it's a US/Ukrainian are the only participants, and that NO other NATO members are participating.

50 Hummers and other heavy equipment along with one hundred containers were unloaded.

After break out of protests and port blockade, a number of containers were opened by "some" party and emptied of contents despite strict anti-contraband regulations.

NAVY engineers began movement of containers into mainland before clearing customs.

Containers delivered to Feodosiya contained explosives and "poisoning chemicals" even though declaration stated only 150 firearms.

Customs declaration forms of US delivered vehicles/containers are registered as "diplomatic freight", not as military assets.

Citizens and National Guard of Feodosiya are not releasing the containers along with 259 NAVY Marines which are blockaded at the sanatorium.

US consulate in Ukraine dispatched representatives along with military attache to represent the Marines.

Currently Crimean National Guard took positions around the port and other positions with US personnel presence and preparing to declare the region as an anti-NATO autonomous territory.

Kazak detachments stated that they will not allow US shipments to leave the port, and if attempts to break through their blockade will be made, it will be met with resistance, and Kozak reinforcements "couple of thousand strong" will be dispatched to the port of Feodosiya.

150 engineers blockaded in the sanatorium in Alushte in which water and power were shut off upon their arrival, had to be evacuated at 2 o'clock in the morning local time. Local police was forced to control the crowd as the convoy proceed to undisclosed location in the direction of Simferopol.

Other sanatoriums and hotels to which US personnel is being diverted are also experiencing power and water "failures".

Anti-NATO protests are spreading beyond Crimea into certain Ukraine in the cities of Donetsk, Dnepropetrovsk, Zaporozhye, Odessa, Nikolayeva, and counting.

Part of the shipment did reach the base near Stary Krym by road from Roumania and Moldavia. The shipment has been seized by local authorities and will not be released until customs examines the undeclared shipment of military equipment through borders of Ukraine, and is currently considered as contraband.

Early speculation are already in the media that under the pretense of "exercise" US is providing military support to Yushchenkoin his upcoming elections, since his ratings are at the all time low and for months there has been talk of his impeachment.

Note that CNN. FOX etc are running "fillers" on kidnappings, murder suspects, gay marriage, good Samaritans, champion mules, cloned animals, weapons of the axis of evil, and not a word on the biggest international scandal of the year which has been unfolding since May 25th.

It will only get better.



posted on Jun, 5 2006 @ 11:44 AM
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Originally posted by iskander
The constitution! With out the VOTE of the Parliament, it's called an INVASION and or occupation.

I just want to know what specific section of the Ukrainian constitution says that friendly nations can't conduct military exercises in its land and sea borders. Whats the wording?



posted on Jun, 5 2006 @ 11:55 AM
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Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by iskander
The constitution! With out the VOTE of the Parliament, it's called an INVASION and or occupation.

I just want to know what specific section of the Ukrainian constitution says that friendly nations can't conduct military exercises in its land and sea borders. Whats the wording?


Excuse me? what wording in their constitution says friendly nations can't conduct military exercises????

It's called a basic recognition of sovereignity, or have you handed over all your brain cells to the United States of the World?

If we are going to have any hope of affording other countries the chance at democracy, we had better start treating them with the respect we ask of them. Not to cow-tow to them, but to recognize them as a country (for whatever that is worth) and at least on the very surface not assume its okay to barge around outside their living room with our giant-sized boots or boats causing a rukus while the people inside are trying to figure out what makes sense to them.

That is, unless of course, they have oil we want. Then it's not even an argument, right? Just barge in there and show them our military might, then socio-form their political landscape, then when there good and soft from all the U.S.-style freedom learnin', we can have their oil....cheap.

Such good policy, don't you think?



posted on Jun, 5 2006 @ 12:11 PM
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There was an international conference May 29th - June 2nd in Vienna and the CFE Treaty was on top of the agenda (they also discussed Iran). U.S. didn't ratify the CFE Treaty "because Russia didn't withdraw its troops from Transdniestr". I'm sure this incident is somehow related to this. We might be looking at the start of a new cold war and a new arms race with build up of conventional forces in Europe. The exact scenario which led to the past two world wars...



posted on Jun, 5 2006 @ 12:12 PM
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Originally posted by newtron25
It's called a basic recognition of sovereignity, or have you handed over all your brain cells to the United States of the World?

And when the president of a country agrees to joint training operations, its illegal how exactly???? This isn't an invasion, its a joint military exercise, approved the the president of the Ukraine. Where does it say parliament must be the one to approve the pressence of all foreign troops ? Where? It might say it, so where does it say it???



posted on Jun, 5 2006 @ 12:12 PM
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I just want to know what specific section of the Ukrainian constitution says that friendly nations can't conduct military exercises in its land and sea borders. Whats the wording?


Good question, I don't read Ukrainian, but considering that EVERY sovereign Democratic state does not allow foreign troops on its soil on the soul decision made by the president with out approval from Parliament/Congress etc, I can only point to a quick link found with Google.


Constitutional Response to an Illegal Incursion by Armed Foreign Troops onto US Soil


www.rumormillnews.com...



posted on Jun, 5 2006 @ 12:27 PM
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"And when the president of a country agrees to joint training operations, its illegal how exactly???? This isn't an invasion, its a joint military exercise, approved the the president of the Ukraine. Where does it say parliament must be the one to approve the pressence of all foreign troops ? Where? It might say it, so where does it say it??? "

Oh never mind, I forgot that the current reality of America is all about totalitarian rule of Bush, and that a modern American is defined by his/hers inability to differentiate fact from fiction.

Another news tid bit.

The "Orange" party has split, and the reunification has been permanently postponed.

Other parties are contesting Yushcenkos drive to join NATO, main one being "Our Ukraine, Block of Yulia Timoshenko, Socialist Party".

What is your definition of a "friendly nation" by the way? Is it what FOX news tells you?

Because US is friendly to Ukraine just as it was "friendly" to Cuba, and the majority of Ukrainians are not only opposed to NATO, but poll after poll shows that they do not consider America as their ally.

So are we talking Democracy, or Bushes "armed democratisation"?

I never thought I'd miss Nixon, but considering that Bushes approval (disapproval rather) rating is only three points above Nixon's at the time of his impeachment, no wonder that even Ukrainians are kind of "weary" about a nation ruled by a President which his own people don't want.

edit:missed a word

[edit on 5-6-2006 by iskander]



posted on Jun, 5 2006 @ 12:27 PM
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So what you are saying is that there is no law preventing this from occuring, and that its not illegal.



posted on Jun, 5 2006 @ 12:32 PM
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So what you are saying is that there is no law preventing this from occuring, and that its not illegal.


No, I'm not saying that, but what you are doing is twisting words and putting them in my mouth.

What gives? Are you dense or driven?

Because if you are getting payed to spread crapp on the net, I'll happily end my conversation with you personally, and allow other members to participate in your quest to destroy reason and common sense.

It's up to you.



posted on Jun, 5 2006 @ 12:38 PM
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To be fair, I'll re-post this very clear, precise statement;


Natalya Vitrenko, leader of a political party influential on the Black Sea peninsula of Crimea, accused Yushchenko of ignoring legislation which requires parliamentary approval before any foreign military troops or ships enter Ukrainian territory. She also noted that parliament had earlier this year voted to bar foreign troops from participating in military exercises in Ukraine.

“On May 27, an act of high treason was committed by Ukraine’s top officials,” Vitrenko said.


Lets focus here

1.) -----> "accused Yushchenko of ignoring legislation which requires parliamentary approval"

2.) -----> "parliament had earlier this year voted to bar foreign troops from participating in military exercises in Ukraine"

Putting two and two together, for honest and reasonable people it means BREAKING THE LAW, for others, just a loop hole that lawyers and media can deal with.

IGNORED, REQUIRES, VOTED TO BAR, etc.

I rest.



posted on Jun, 5 2006 @ 01:19 PM
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Well this is really clear.

Representatives of Feodosiya city council have unanimously voted to declare the area as a "NATO free territory", thus empowering local authorities and militias to resist US actions.

It was noted that Representatives from all political parties fully supported the decision.

City Council of Feodosiya has sent an official request to President Yuschenko demanding an official investigation of the situation, and explanation to how US forces under the flag of NATO were allowed to illegally disembark on Ukrainian soil and place a military contingent in the area.

Please note that NATO official denied NATOs involvement in the "exercise" and stressed that NATO did not and will not participate in any way, and that all aspects of Sea Breeze 2006 are conducted directly between Ukraine and US.



posted on Jun, 5 2006 @ 01:26 PM
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Originally posted by iskander
What gives? Are you dense or driven?

Dense. So you'll have to explain it to me v-e-r-y s-l-o-w-l-y. What part of the Ukrainian Consitution states that parliament, and not the President, is the one to give approval here.

Again, as far as I know, it does say it, I have merely asked, where does it actually say this.


Because if you are getting payed to spread crapp on the net

Waitaminute. A guy that is ignoring the russian attempts to assasinate Yuschenko and gain control of the Ukraine as a pupet state, is saying that I'm spreading crap on the internet?


accused Yushchenko of ignoring legislation which requires parliamentary approval

Which is it, legislation, or the constitution?


parliament had earlier this year voted to bar foreign troops from participating in military exercises in Ukraine

I don't know enough about Ukrainian parliamentary procedure to know if thats at all meaningful. Maybe the consitution gives this power to the Presidency, maybe there is a loophole in the law, maybe it was just a bill and not signed into law, maybe it was illegitimate.



posted on Jun, 5 2006 @ 01:38 PM
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Man, it just gets worse.

While today's big news is same sex marriage ban, with included Presidential address, rising tensions in Crimea involving illegal military exercises are not even mentioned.

Ukrainian security council and national defense in Kiev ignored the growing unrest and mass protests in Crimea, and pushes forward with "exercises" in spite the protest of the Parliament.

Security council did order to detain and deport all "foreigners" in the areas of protest. Again, the majority of Crimean population is Russian, which to this day is in illegal limbo concerning Russian/Ukrainian citizenship.

Such order will allow various military and law enforcement detachments to conduct mass detentions, arrests, black listing and deportations with out any illegal representation or do process. In short it's a terror tactic used to force people back into their homes with out having to declare marshal law.



posted on Jun, 5 2006 @ 01:56 PM
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Article 17

To protect the sovereignty and territorial indivisibility of Ukraine, and to ensure its economic and informational security are the most important functions of the State and a matter of concern for all the Ukrainian people.

The defence of Ukraine and the protection of its sovereignty, territorial indivisibility and inviolability, are entrusted to the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

Ensuring state security and protecting the state border of Ukraine are entrusted to the respective military formations and law enforcement bodies of the State, whose organisation and operational procedure are determined by law.

The Armed Forces of Ukraine and other military formations shall not be used by anyone to restrict the rights and freedoms of citizens or with the intent to overthrow the constitutional order, subvert the bodies of power or obstruct their activity.

The State ensures the social protection of citizens of Ukraine who serve in the Armed Forces of Ukraine and in other military formations as well as of members of their families.

The creation and operation of any armed formations not envisaged by law are prohibited on the territory of Ukraine.

The location of foreign military bases shall not be permitted on the territory of Ukraine.


Constitution of Ukraine

I think this is enough for an argument about constitutionality about presence of US armed forces on this territory.
Maybe there is some special legislation that covers presence of foreign armed forces but I don't know about it because I'm not an expert on Ukraine law.

mod edit--apply external quote code

[edit on 5-6-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]



posted on Jun, 5 2006 @ 02:10 PM
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Dense. So you'll have to explain it to me v-e-r-y s-l-o-w-l-y. What part of the Ukrainian Consitution states that parliament, and not the President, is the one to give approval here.

Again, as far as I know, it does say it, I have merely asked, where does it actually say this.


Hey, good deal, no harm done then.



Because if you are getting payed to spread crapp on the net

Waitaminute. A guy that is ignoring the russian attempts to assasinate Yuschenko and gain control of the Ukraine as a pupet state, is saying that I'm spreading crap on the internet?


No, again, that had nothing to do with >alleged< assassination attempt on Yushenko.

1.) It has never been acknowledged as assassination by anybody, even the poisoning scenario is still only a speculation.
2.) Other then vague media innuendos what does it have to do with ruling body of Russian Federation?
3.) Yushenko's OWN party split up and is running AGAINST him in the upcoming elections, on the very platform that it is in fact Yushenko who is a US puppet.


quote: accused Yushchenko of ignoring legislation which requires parliamentary approval

Which is it, legislation, or the constitution?


Both, legislation which was previously passed, and by breaking the legislation the constitution is violated.

quote: parliament had earlier this year voted to bar foreign troops from participating in military exercises in Ukraine


I don't know enough about Ukrainian parliamentary procedure to know if thats at all meaningful. Maybe the consitution gives this power to the Presidency, maybe there is a loophole in the law, maybe it was just a bill and not signed into law, maybe it was illegitimate.


I'm not a master in Ukrainian procedures either, but when Parliament is ignored by the president on issue of national security, Iraq happens, which by the very definition is not DEMOCRATIC, since ONE person makes decisions of national importance.

It's like this, let's say that right now Bush instead of talking about the important issue such as same sex marriage, changes his speech entirely and states that China will be conducting armed exercises with US on Florida coast.

Both the Congress and the Senate say no thank you, we all voted against it, and Bush just ignores it.

Then, a Chinese Navy military ship docks in Florida, and casually begins unloading a small army along one hundred containers some of which are marked "explosives" and "poisons - chemical agents", walking around the city, checking into hotels, all while in Chinese uniforms, all to astonished eyes of unsuspecting residents of Florida.

Floridians learn that Chinese convoys are riding around their cities, for some military exercise with undisclosed conditions.

I guarantee you, that if that happens here, our nations collective finger will be on the button before Bush can pronounce nuclear.

National guard, militia and plain old cops will be raiding gun shops, arming them selves to the teeth and taking positions.

Local authorities will be screaming at Washington for explanations to why Florida being stomped on by Chinese soldiers, and in response the White House issues orders that all protesters are illegal immigrants and should be detained, arrested and deported back to Mexico and Cuba, and that these orders can be carried out both by military and civil forces.

How does that sound to you?

Any constitutional questions, doubts on parliamentary procedures, and such?

And don't forget that all the while in China, round the clock all media sources are showing pretty Pandas, funny clowns and an amazing dog that gave birth to 30 pups. How cute!

If this is somehow not clear enough, I can only urge all to remember this day, because this is a pivotal moment in the history of our country, so think about it, and remember.

Democracy galore, step right up.

Btw, the price of oil jupmed again.

edit:splng

[edit on 5-6-2006 by iskander]



posted on Jun, 5 2006 @ 02:49 PM
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Originally posted by iskander
No, again, that had nothing to do with >alleged< assassination attempt on Yushenko.

1.) It has never been acknowledged as assassination by anybody, even the poisoning scenario is still only a speculation.

And when a car blew up outside of his offices prior to that?? That was just spontaneous formation of high explosives?

How can you see a threat in a military exercise, but don't see that the russians are trying to exert control over the Ukraine??


The constitution says that " of any armed formations not envisaged by law " is not permitted. Does not the action of the presidency make the operation legal? Though it does seem like an explanation is needed. But the US is saying that there are no troops there anyway, no?



posted on Jun, 5 2006 @ 03:02 PM
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And when a car blew up outside of his offices prior to that?? That was just spontaneous formation of high explosives?

How can you see a threat in a military exercise, but don't see that the russians are trying to exert control over the Ukraine??


The constitution says that " of any armed formations not envisaged by law " is not permitted. Does not the action of the presidency make the operation legal? Though it does seem like an explanation is needed. But the US is saying that there are no troops there anyway, no?


I see how it is Nygdan, it's the old tired cut and paste argument trick resulting in nit picking and derailing the of the topic into to a endless cycle.

It's kind of like answering every question with an question.

How's your day?

How's yours?

It's sunny don't you think?

Don't you?

Well I think it is.

Really? Wasn't it sunny yesterday?

and so on.

Been there, done that, getting old.

In your latest reply I can't find a single aspect that I can respond to with out being led into diluting the merit of this post into utter nonsense.

No thanks, try again.

p.s. Russians is written with capital R, just as with Americans is written with a capital A, and so on. A Freudian little slip up there I see.

Dow is down 200 points. Nasdaq 50, S&P 23, and going.



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