I just wanted to know what ATS folk think of the knife problem and how you would go about solving it?
I think the best (though slightly extreme) way of dealing with the knife problem would be an instant 10 or 20 year sentence for anyone carrying a knife without good reason. Though, im sure most folk would abhor this idea, I think it was done before to stop the razor gangs.
The big problem is if such a problem calls for such a desperate measure?

Allow people to own guns.

..or another suggestion would be to implant everyone with chips in there head then if the person even thinks of stabbing anyone, they would be charged with thought crimes

On a more serious note, I have been victim to being stabbed..threatened and sliced by knife weilding loonies, all on seperate occasions, and tbh the problem is only going to get worse.

I have no suggestions, but I believe laws should be tougher on this matter

Crittz. I do respect your opinon, but don't you think introducing guns would just inflame the problem?

Originally posted by MacDonagh
I think the best (though slightly extreme) way of dealing with the knife problem would be an instant 10 or 20 year sentence for anyone carrying a knife without good reason. Though, im sure most folk would abhor this idea, I think it was done before to stop the razor gangs.
The big problem is if such a problem calls for such a desperate measure?

What criteria would you use to define “good reason?” I always carry a pocketknife. I am also considering obtaining a license to carry a handgun. Of course, I live in the US where unlicensed gun owners create more of a problem than knife or razor carriers.

I've honestly never heard of such a thing
Please explain I'm ignorant
thanks
peace

I thought this was a joke...

Once you make laws to solve the knife problem, then only outlaws will have knives.
Then you'll have to make laws to solve the bat problem, then only outlaws will have bats.
Then you'll have to make laws to solve the stick problem, then only outlaws will have sticks...
Then there's the rock problem...

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I thought this was a joke...

Once you make laws to solve the knife problem, then only outlaws will have knives.
Then you'll have to make laws to solve the bat problem, then only outlaws will have bats.
Then you'll have to make laws to solve the stick problem, then only outlaws will have sticks...
Then there's the rock problem...

In all honesty, I doubt even the most ruthless outlaw would carry a knife, if the penelty was 20 years, for not even using it! But, if we think clearly, I don't believe for a second that it'll solve it that easily. The gangs will keep using knifes because no-one is willing to step in and break them up.

Ban guns, it will be knives. Ban knives, it will be baseball bats. Ban baseball bats, it will be tree limbs. Ban tree limbs, it will be chainsaws. Ban chainsaws, it will be hammers. Ban hammers, it will be screwdrivers. Ban screwdrivers, it will be monkey wrenches. Ban monkey wrenches, it will be hockey sticks. Ban hockey sticks, it will be chair legs. Ban chair legs, it will be bricks. Ban bricks, it will be tennis racquets. Ban tennis racquets, it will be power drills. Ban power drills, it will be a length of two x four lumber. Ban lengths of two x four lumber, it will be rolling pins. Ban rolling pins, it will be cast iron frying pans. Ban cast iron frying pans, it will be thick heavy chains. Ban thick heavy chains, it will be sharpened Popsicle sticks. Ban sharpened popsicle sticks, it will be pit-bulls and rottweilers. Ban pit-bulls and rottweilers, it will be steel rods. Ban steel rods, it will be baseball sized rocks. Ban baseball sized rocks, it will be ....

You can ban all the weapons that you want. Prohibiting weapons, even eliminating weapons will not eliminate violence. What is needed is to discover the roots of violence; poverty, lack of education, mental illness, hopelessness and injustice (just to name a few aspects that cause violence). By working to eliminate the roots of violence is the only course that we have open to us that will work. We could ban essentially everything and people will still harm or kill one another using their own hands.

Originally posted by MacDonagh
Crittz. I do respect your opinon, but don't you think introducing guns would just inflame the problem?

No I dont really believe allowing guns would solve the problem, I apologise, looking back at the post it does kinda indicated I ment that.
...But it would benifit in other areas, for example if guns were permitted in the uk, would you break into my house knowing I would probably shoot you?

Benevolent tyrant has a very valid point, banning the objects of the crime does not solve the problem. The knife isnt the problem, its the person who is using it imo

[edit on 5-6-2006 by crittz]

Macdonagh
Thanks, You seem to have a simular problem just with different weapons feel fortunate I live in a city that has gun shot sensors mounted on stop/go lights.
(in fact I just heard a gun shot, nice) I understand you want to feel safe but living in a free society does have its disadvantages too. I will say this I'm glad to see things arn't all that different on the other side of the pond, actually sounds a little safer.
and a tip I don't know your laws on OC or pepper spray it gives you enough time to get the hell out
peace

I have a concealed carry permit. I have found the best way to feel safe during a knife fight is to pull out my .40 cal pistol. So far it has worked every time...

I dont feel that the correct way to solve the knife problem is just simply put anyone in prison carrying a knife, our prisons are already filled up to be putting more in.

Banning knives wouldnt work either, if someone wants to hurt or kill someone, they will find a way other than using a knife, there are many many possible weapons out there, and if the government banned knives, because we might start hurting each other, whats to stop them from banning hmm i dont know, our fists? We can do a lot of damage with them, or anything else considered to be a weapon.

Knife culture is a problem in Britain today, but made to sound much worse, its just the way its being reported, a couple of stabbings happened, and suddenly its plastered all over the news, and any stabbing since is reported in great detail, whereas before it would go unnoticed. And like I said, ban knives, and then there would be another weapon of choice for people, and soon we would have a "gun culture" like in America.

The way to combat the problem is to eliminate the reasons why people feel the need to carry knives around, some say its for protection, others for respect. If these reasons are dealt with, and people no longer feel scared without a knife, then knife culture would decrease, along with other forms of violent crime perhaps.

Originally posted by hawk74
I don't know your laws on OC or pepper spray it gives you enough time to get the hell out

Carrying OC in the UK will get you into very nearly as much trouble as carrying a gun.

While the UK attempts to ban every weapon imaginable, it fails to realise that the real problem is the uncontrollable scum that roam the nation's streets most every night, the non-existant police presence, and the laughable justice system that fails to punish offenders.

Here in Phoenix there was recently a case of graffiti spraying, this is unusual, and while those responsible were ultimately found to be illegal Mexican immigrants (as usual for crimes around here) - there were tracked down and caught by a well staffed police force and sentenced to lengthy jail terms of several years.

Result, no more graffiti.

If you really want to crack down on crime in the UK, double sentences across the board for anti-social behaviour, and triple sentences where alcohol plays a part in the crime.

The UK is a sad example of what can happen when you let Liberals turn their wet dreams into a utopian nightmare - the problem is that they just don't understand human nature.

and the laughable justice system that fails to punish offenders.

Then how come our prisons are full?

Originally posted by Conspirator_101
The way to combat the problem is to eliminate the reasons why people feel the need to carry knives around, some say its for protection, others for respect. If these reasons are dealt with, and people no longer feel scared without a knife, then knife culture would decrease, along with other forms of violent crime perhaps.

I suppose that might work. But in addition to having to overhaul entire economic systems and conduct comprehensive education programs to sensitize people to the reasons why they have knives and why they are an ineffective response to the prevalent social situation, I'm afraid it sounds a bit too gay.

Originally posted by Vox Populi

and the laughable justice system that fails to punish offenders.

Then how come our prisons are full?

That's an easy one. It's because we have a prison shortage.

The funny thing is that once upon a time young men carrying knives wasn't so unusual or exceptional.
They just weren't so stupid as to try and use them.

Short of removing the fear and paranoia that breeds this dysfunctional behaviour I don't see what else the authorities can do but try and threaten large penalties.
It will deter some but possibly not those one would really want to be deterring.
The alternative is to do either nothing or encourage a free for all, neither of which could ever be considered rational or acceptable here.

BTW Prison shortage?
How does that one work? 'We' in the UK have more prison places than ever, it costs us a fortune never mind building and staffing more of the damned things.
We should be looking at other societies who have less crime and much smaller (cheaper) penal systems, not slavishly following a failed 'system'.



[edit on 6-6-2006 by sminkeypinkey]

Originally posted by MacDonagh
I just wanted to know what ATS folk think of the knife problem and how you would go about solving it?
I think the best (though slightly extreme) way of dealing with the knife problem would be an instant 10 or 20 year sentence for anyone carrying a knife without good reason. Though, im sure most folk would abhor this idea, I think it was done before to stop the razor gangs.
The big problem is if such a problem calls for such a desperate measure?

This is an Ironic post right?
I mean you are intentionally lampooning the same questions that led to the UK's gun ban I hope.

I carried a knife for over 2 years when I had some trouble with drugs people i had reported to the police. Guess what: I never used it!!! Then again if I had it would have been for a good reason and people I would kill would probably have killed people in other ways (even its only by selling herion to them).

If you ever fall out with a "Yob Mob" then you would be stupid not to carry a knife. You can fall out with low life by asking them turn music down, stay away from outside your shop, or even by reporting a crime to the police (as was my case).

The problem is not knifes (and other sharp objects) its the human turds that think they can use them and be cool for doing so.
Why do people think like this? Could it be because they have a single mum who probably knicked half their child support for her own ends, and nobody but other criminals as a father model?
Could it be: Because these people have already been to prison a few times and accept it as part of the lifestyle-career they leed?
My solution is...
1. Esculating prison sentances i.e. the more times you've been to prison the more time you serve.
2. Also I think we need greater police intelligence gathering. Almost anyone could infiltrate one of their gangs (providing they have a working class acent and seem to be completely useless with no qualifications what so ever).
But esculating prison sentances are the key. You can wipe these people out by 3. helping them solve their problems, by locking them up, and by catching them. I want all 3 methods used big time.

Whatever you do don't make a war on sharp objects because one way or another the criminals will continue to have sharp objects, whilst the victums will become easy targets for the police to catch (and therefore raise their targets). You can only win a war against sharp objects by dealing with the problem people who carry them for that you need the 3 methods of policing I mentioned above.