Christopher Columbus, the New World and Prophecy.

Is anybody familiar with this?

www.theinsider.org...

You probably learned a bit about Christopher Columbus at school, but one documented historical fact that you probably overlooked is that Columbus believed his discovery of the New World was necessary to fulfil an ancient prophecy!
What exactly did Christopher Columbus mean when, circa 1500 AD, he wrote about America in one of his famous letters: "God made me the messenger of the new heaven and the new earth of which he spoke in the Apocalypse of St John after having spoken of it through the mouth of Isaiah; and he showed me the spot where to find it."[1]

Christopher Columbus produced a famous book, "Book of Prophecies"[2], containing over 200 biblical and patristic passages which he compiled, but how many people realise why?

When Columbus made his case to win support from the Vatican and the Spanish monarchy, at the centre of his manifesto was a millennial prophecy about the destiny of the land that he would discover. A "New World" was to arise in the West to wage one last Crusade against the Arab powers of the Middle East.

A war across such a vast distance, over thousands of miles of sea and land, would have seemed unlikely at the time. Yet, as the new Millennium dawned, soon after the Year 2000 AD, events were set in motion that would fulfil the prophecy.

This was news to me and Google turns up a plethora of links on the subject. I'm unsure where to start so I'm posting this in the hope that someone can get me going in the right direction.

Here's a PBS link that was at the top of my first Google search that helped a little bit.

How does Jerusalem begin to figure into Columbus' discovery of the New World?

Well, Columbus felt that he was able to go around the world to get to Jerusalem, and that going around the world to get to Jerusalem would allow and facilitate the conquest of Jerusalem by a Spanish Last World Emperor. The way to Jerusalem had been blocked by the Turks and others. But the gold that he felt he would discover in the Indies was the money that would be needed to mount the military expedition that would reconquer Jerusalem and, as I said, issue in a universal messianic rule in which Christianity would triumph under the leadership of a Spanish last monarch. ...

Thought this was very interesting and, perhaps, others here will as well. I'm not sure who'd be a credible source here so, help?

Regards and thanks in advance,
-Rren

now this is a slant i havent read before and i didnt know was out there. thnx for pointing this out.


is there anything more on this? im searching about it but everything is pretty much saying the same thing.. which is not much.


i just got done watching "decoding the past" on the history channel... and then i read this. fits perfectly. great timming.


is the western world... capatalism-colonialism-american consumer society etc. just a repackaged version of the age old crusades? a new crusade? is it still that age old fight between christainity and islam?


even if its not true christianity and or true islam.

questions to ponder.

Thats pretty neat, I've never heard anything like that before. I have to wonder at the interpretation that seems to imply that today is that crusade, launched from the new world, aka America. Columbus thought he was going to land on the shores of China or India, not a new continent. It makes some sense that he'd figure it could be used to attack the arab empire from the opposite direction. I'd also have to wonder at how much of that was actual beleif and how much was pandering to his patrons.

However him writting a book that is a collection of propheties from the bible and RC Church Fathers does seem like something a 'true beleiver' (rather than a cynic looking for a financier) would do.

Really fascinating, as an historical object though, I can't see it as having much to do with what is going on today. Why would Columbus be a divinely inspired or authority on prophecy, for example? And, why the USA, which isn't run by the papacy? Columbus' america has more to do with Latin America than the US or Canada. I don't think a guy in the late 1400's was thinking much about the Millenium either.

Really interesting information though.

Christopher Columbus (1492) can believe all he wants though... He didn't discover America. That was done by a boatload of Vikings led by Bjarni Herjolfsson in the year 986 clearly 500 years before Columbus. A later expedition was led by Leif Eriksson. They settled for 20 years or so and decided they couldn't live with the locals in peace and departed.

www.eyewitnesstohistory.com...
www.bbc.co.uk...
www.win.tue.nl...

According to "The Rest of the story" The Paul Harvey thing. Columbus was jewish.

Seems odd he would be cohorting with the Pope- Why would a jewish sailor be interested in St John (pretty sure that's new testiment right)? Was he the first of the "Jew's for Jesus?" Just some thoughts on the subject.

Not especially pertinent to the thread subject, but still good background reading:
Columbus, The Original American Hero

It does state his main motive in exploration was...gold!

krossfyter

now this is a slant i havent read before and i didnt know was out there. thnx for pointing this out.

Yeah I was really bored yesterday and was looking for some weird/alternative news stories and found this... wasn't sure what, if anything, to make of it. Got a whole stack of links to read now though. Thanks for the response.

Nygdan

I'd also have to wonder at how much of that was actual beleif and how much was pandering to his patrons.

However him writting a book that is a collection of propheties from the bible and RC Church Fathers does seem like something a 'true beleiver' (rather than a cynic looking for a financier) would do.

Yeah the stuff I've read so far seems to indicate a bit of both; he was using it to get his funding, but he did also believe in the prophecies... might be worth it to try and find that book. Thanks for the links you sent me Nygdan, I'll be checking them out as soon as I post this and will report back.

Really fascinating, as an historical object though, I can't see it as having much to do with what is going on today. Why would Columbus be a divinely inspired or authority on prophecy, for example? And, why the USA, which isn't run by the papacy? Columbus' america has more to do with Latin America than the US or Canada. I don't think a guy in the late 1400's was thinking much about the Millenium either.


Really interesting information though.

Agreed... was just suprised I'd never heard of it before. How's that go? There's lies, damn lies, and prophecy? Wait maybe that's statistics.

valkeryie

Thanks for the links Have heard of that before, not sure if it can be tied into this topic but interesting none-the-less.

Farzai

Columbus was Jewish??? Well that could change things, to say the least! Wonder which rabbitt whole to go down first. Thanks for the post... I'll save that angle for last.

rizla

Yeah profit/fame was what I always assumed he was after... background reading is exactly what I was after, so thanks.

Thanks for the help guys. [Ahnold]I'll be bakkk[Ahnold]

On columbus being jewish, it is thought that his family was jewish but hid that because of the inquisition. So no one would recognize them as being jewish. Its also possible that they were 'crypto-jews', which are jews that have hid their jewishness for so long that they don't even know that they are jewish (there are priests, for example, that come from families that had 'weird' traditions, such as eating by candleight on certain days that correspond to jewish hollidays, etc).

Hello Rren and all,

bc] Rren, you've stumbled onto something extremely rare - so don't be swayed by any nay sayers.

I wrote about this very thing several years ago, but because I'm doing some on-going research I'll not give you the website, but I will tell you that the key to the answer is with Augustus Le Plongeon's Queen Moo and the Egyptian Sphinx.

But again don't be swayed by nay sayers who would attack Le Plongeon - because their only interest is to keep the world confused and to hide historical information.

You also want to read Plato on Atlantis and read The Book of Revelation Revelation 1 : 8 --- they all relate.

Your original story is true - so if you are a seeker- the answers are there.

Sorry about being so evasive but it is a REAL story that I am working on too.

bc
.\

isn't Le Plongeon one of the people involved in the idea of the Lost Continent of Mu?

Originally posted by beforebc
Hello Rren and all,

bc] Rren, you've stumbled onto something extremely rare - so don't be swayed by any nay sayers.

Hello bc,

Based on my lack of understanding of even the basics (school ended for me almost 15 years ago) I've had to start at the beginning. I've just finished the first link Nygdan sent me, Columbus and the Recovery of Jerusalem Abbas Hamdani Journal of the American Oriental Society, Vol. 99, No. 1. (Jan - Mar, 1979), pp. 39-48, which gives me a basic outline of Columbus' motivations (crusades, trade routes, re-taking jerusalem, etc) for wanting to find a new trade route to the east/Monguls. Although I have three pages of my notebook filled I haven't even scratched the surface yet (actually have more questions now than when I began.) Some allusions to a Columbus messiah complex, if you will, yet to be explored and have to read the link again before I move on to the next.

With all that being said please post away; others may not be at such a loss. If not, too busy or whatever, you've given me/others some good key words to go on... I must say the Atlantis and Revelation comments have me intriqued.

Regards,
-Rren

Originally posted by valkeryie
Christopher Columbus (1492) can believe all he wants though... He didn't discover America. That was done by a boatload of Vikings led by Bjarni Herjolfsson in the year 986 clearly 500 years before Columbus. A later expedition was led by Leif Eriksson. They settled for 20 years or so and decided they couldn't live with the locals in peace and departed.

www.eyewitnesstohistory.com...
www.bbc.co.uk...
www.win.tue.nl...

true... but he made the new world known to the established world of that time. hence--discover... albeit from a colonial perspective.

kinda like how Nirvana didnt start grunge they simply made it mainstream.
even if today.... Nirvana would be classified as grunge from those who study popular music.

bad analogy. oh well... you get the point. ciao

Hello Rren - again anyone who would attack Le Plongeon (even by innuendo) is a fool - and you can bet they never read his books - which makes them stupid as well!

(In essence Le Plongeon wrote]

Thousands of years ago the Maya from the Yucatan sailed and settled the lands around the Mediterranean. They put their meaning to the letters of the Greek alphabet as shown below. When you put those "meanings" together (see quote) they read like THE TALE OF SOLON:

Heavily break the waters extending over the plains. They cover the land in low places where there are obstructions and whirlpools strike the earth with water. The water spreads on all that lives and moves sediments give way submerged is the land of Mu.

The peaks only appear over the water .. whirlpools blow around by little and little until comes cold air before where existed valleys. Now abysses frozen tanks in circular places.

Clay formed a mouth, open vapors come forth and volcanic sediments.

GREEK - MAYA ALPHABET

Alpha --- heavily break [the] waters
Beta --- extending [over the] plains
Gamma --- they [cover the] land
Delta --- [in] low places where
Epsilon --- [there are] obstructions and whirlpools
Zeta --- strike [the] earth
Eta --- with water
Theta --- [the] water spreads
Iota --- [on] all that lives and moves
Kappa --- sediments give way
Lambda --- submerged [is the] land
Mu --- [of] Mu
Ni --- the peaks [only]
Xi --- appear over [the water]
Omikron --- whirlpools blow around
Pi --- by little and little
Rho --- until comes
Sigma --- cold air before
Tau --- where [existed] valleys
Upsilon --- [now] abysses frozen tanks in circular places
Phi --- clay formed
Chi --- a mouthPsi --- open vapors
Omega --- come forth and [volcanic] sediments.

bc
.\

Well, ,for those who are Mormon, or believe the Book of Mormon is true, this isn't shocking or new news.

But seeing as I'm probably the only Mormon on the boards here...

Anyway, there is a prophecy in the Book of Mormon, which you either believe was written around 400 B.C. by a native american prophet named Nephi, or it was made up in 1830 by Joseph Smith Jr., who claimed to translate it. Either way, the scripture reads:

And I looked and beheld a man among the Gentiles, who was separated from the seed of my brethren by the many waters; and I beheld the Spirit of God, that it came down and wrought upon the man; and he went forth upon the many waters, even unto the seed of my brethren, who were in the promised land. (1 Nephi 13:12)

However, other than that, I'm not aware of any prophecies that one could attribute to Christopher Columbus.

I'm not aware of any prophecies that one could attribute to Christopher Columbus.

Apparently columbus himself made reference to a Seer named Joachim, who's prophecies about the apocalypse were popular at the time. Columbus claimed that they supported the messiah comming from Spain.

The idea here is that the messiah is going to be associated with the recovery of Jerusalem, which at the time meant a struggle against Islam. Because the Spanish had been fighting Islam in spain, it was seen as natural that they'd continue the fight against this old enemy into Jerusalem itself, as a sort of final crusade. Columbus, based upon understandings of the politics of the far east at the time, thought that there was a powerful Grand Khan, who was sympathetic to christianity, because of the eastern Nestorian Church and beacuse of his empire's struggles with Islam. He beleived that if he sailed across the Ocean Sea, he'd land in indo-china, and be able to establish contact with the Great Khan. This would permit a global alliance between the western states and the eastern states, and also re-unify western and eastern christendom, and the two could act toghether against a mutual enemy, Islam. This seems to me also to explain why columbus was intent upon being the Admiral of the Ocean Sea, he thought it was just another Sea, and that it'd be vital to this global crusade. The problem, America. Even after realizing that "Cuba wasn't China", he still felt that America could serve as a base and as a source of riches to further the global apocalypse crusade.