Sukhoi or Mig?

Which airplanes are currently better? I have always been a fan of Migs but that was until I saw videos of SU-35, 47 those are some amazing airplanes and mig has nothing to counter that.


[edit on 4-6-2006 by metalgearsolid]

Those types of video's just completely takes your breath away doesn't it?

Unfortunatly, What is better threads are generally closed since they often end up in flame wars and that's not something we need here on ATS, we have enough of that and many good members get banned and warned.

Thanks for sharing though.

The Su-35 (in the vid) is awesome but it's worth remembering that the Mig-29OVT also has thrust vectoring and wingtip missile rails so has similar agility and thrust:weight ratio. In general the Sukhoi is bigger and so can carry more weapons and better (bigger/heavier/more) avionics.

In Flanker-v-Fulcrum real combat the Flankers have always won (Ethipian flankers -v- eritrean Fulcrums) but neither aircraft had the thrust vectoring or latest avionics now standard on both types (current new-build standard).

i dont want to pour oil on the flames , but contrary to nationalistic jingolism , and manufacturer hype --- the superiorities or inferiorities real or imagined , would in a real fight often be cannceled out by such issues of :

pilot training

operational doctrine

configuration - fuel and weapons load out

the range from base of both attacker and defender

weather can even play a role

i cannot find the link -- but a perfect exaple is the IAF and Egyptian AF fleets of f-16s . an american study [ looking only at f16s -- no other aircraft , ADA etc involved ] concluded that the IAF would easily totally defeat the egyptians in air combat

citing failures in egyptian training and adherence to obsolete doctrines based on 70s soviet manuals [ written for mig 21s etc ]

so there -- its not what you have got , its what you do with it that counts

APE OUT

give me 2 please

I love both Mikoyan Gurevich and Sukhoi but as a rule I would say I like Sukhoi better.

The Sukhois seem more tilted towards agility in the air (Su-47, Su-37) and their airplanes just look so much sexier.

MiG has countered only with the Mikoyan Product 1.42/1.44 which doesn't seem nearly as agile. It's a whole lot bigger than a lot of other MiGs.

This being said, I still think that all Russian aircraft are sexier than any other (except the MiG-21 Fishbed which had the beauty matched only by dog turds in a blender.:lol

Sukhoi, Migs are UGLY as hell. Sukhio fighters have always been sleeker and sexier!!!!!!!

Im more a fan of MIG becuase of there long history. They created some planes that scared the crap out of the West for real and/or imagined reasons.

Plus I suspect MIG is doing some amazing things beyond closed doors. Rumors of Plamsa and magneto-hydrodynamic propulsion system that achieve hyper sonic speeds. Even reports of radar returns of craft comming across Russia at speeds of Mach 12.

Originally posted by Darkpr0
MiG has countered only with the Mikoyan Product 1.42/1.44 which doesn't seem nearly as agile.

Its aerodynamic configuration with so many control surfaces is exceptionally agile.

Well, Su-27/30/33 etc. could be compared to US F-15E. It's a heavy fighter, but it's very VERY manoverable aircraft. Su-35 has also vector thrusters, and Su-30MK is considered to be world's most agile 'classic' fighter. It's main role - strategic air superiority fighter, but has awesome ground strike capabilities. A dangerous opponent to any fighter currently in use.

Mig-29 is a medium fighter. It' 4 tons lighter then Su-27, and is designed as local air superiority fighter ('tactical fighter'). Could be compared (in many, but not all points) to US F/A-18C (wich has much better ground strike capabilities).

Generally speaking Su-27 family fighters are bigger, better and much more expensive then Mig-29 series.

[edit on 6-6-2006 by Duby78]

I love Russian aircraft and strongly believe they are the best in the world. Sukhoi is my favorite, but I like Mig-29/33/1.44 also. I particularly like the Mig-29M2 which is an advanced aircraft with 2 seats. While most migs arn't that hot looking, I really love the Mig-29M2. But I have to side with Sukhoi. The Su-37 Terminator and S-37 Berkut are amazing, though the latter isn't developed, I hope Russia will soon develop from it a formidable fighter

I just love Russian aircraft. Russia has always developed amazing aircraft and I love today's. I can't wait till they develop even better aircraft.

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
Even reports of radar returns of craft comming across Russia at speeds of Mach 12.

Shadow, you sure they’re Russian?

Now, I personally would have to go with the MIG, its long history shows that it’s capable of making formidable fighters which when combined with good pilots become truly deadly. Currently the latest generation of Sukhois have a slight lead in terms of avionics and weaponry over the present Mig’s, but not so large that it couldn't be made up by pilot skill.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Shadow, you sure they’re Russian?

Good point its a rather small list of countries that could make hypersonic crafts. That would suggest a high speed recon flight rather then a test flight but could also be the chase if the accounts are true.

Their both marvellous birds so I give them both two thumbs up

Whats this about 'long history'??? Sukhoi have been building jet fighters, often superior ones, for just as long as MiG. Right back at the beginning the Su-9 was a superior machine to the MiG 9, which was a pig, but MiG got the order for political reasons. I like them both but Sukhoi has just as much history as MiG, remember too that the Su-17 was several years ahead of the MiG 19 (and the F-100) until Stalin threw his strop.

Originally posted by waynos
Sukhoi have been building jet fighters, often superior ones, for just as long as MiG.

Superiors ones? Thats debatable IMO

When I think of the best planes to come out of Russia in its long aviation history MIG pops up more often then Sukhoi.

MIG 3
MIG-15
MIG 21
MIG-25
MIG-29

But hey thats just my opinion.

And your entitled to it shadow, they were all good choices too btw

People tend to forget though that Stalin heavily favoured MiG, even to the point of having Pavel O Sukhoi (the famous Irish plane maker ) arrested and his company broken up, it reformed on Stalins death and had to start again.

As I said, the Su-9 was better than the MiG 9 which went into service. In 1949 Sukhoi completed the prototype of the Su-17, the worlds first supersonic fighter, two to three years ahead of anybody else, yet Stalin refused to allow them to fly it (this was when the arrest happened).

Just think what Sukhoi would have achieved with the same sort of unbroken development line that MiG enjoyed. Naturally you will think of more MiG's because they were everywhere, but technically Sukhoi had the lead. One exception is the MIg 21, this was far better than the Sukhoi Fitter and Fishpot, but again, these designs were made by a company re-establishing itself. When they got into their stride the Su-15 Flagon was far better than its Mikoyan rival and the Flanker (designed over 30 years ago) is simply the greatest of the lot. Nothing wrong with MiG's though, as you point out, but Sukhoi can get too easily overlooked, it was the comments about MiG's longer history in the field that prompted me to reply in this thread, it simply isn't the case.

[edit on 7-6-2006 by waynos]

Its a shame that any company can lose because of politics and bias rather then the pure merits of their planes. Im sure that has happened more then once in the US, though its clearly debatable some would argue the YF-23 lost to the YF-22 had its fair share of political motives.

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
Its a shame that any company can lose because of politics and bias rather then the pure merits of their planes. Im sure that has happened more then once in the US, though its clearly debatable some would argue the YF-23 lost to the YF-22 had its fair share of political motives.

Actually thats a good point from a perspective point of view, just imagine if Northrop didn't just lose ATF but the companies senior execs were thrown in jail and the company itself dissolved, and all the YF 23's cut up for scrap. thats what happened in Russia!

Originally posted by planeman
Its aerodynamic configuration with so many control surfaces is exceptionally agile.

Fair enough. I've just never seen a MiG 1.44 video clip like I have of the Su-37/47 doing stunts and such. Unfortunately this leaves me little to base my hypothesis on other than looks-from the side this looks like and incredibly heavy fighter, but looks are very often deceiving.