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Gordian Knot Of COINTELPRO Speculation

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posted on Jun, 4 2006 @ 07:50 PM
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Thanx grim
I'm sorry
I'm proving my ignorance and lack of internet skills




posted on Jun, 4 2006 @ 08:13 PM
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On this COINTELPRO factor, consider this. Just the structure of the word "conspiracy," has been saturated with a double standard. If you are in court and you are charged with "conspiracy," you are in deep trouble even if the charges are ludicrous hearsay.

On the other hand if you are within the court of public opinion presenting proofs and the works of hundreds of professionals, former military men, scientists, and even ordinary people without prior motivations, you are instantly locked into the "tin foil hat," crowd. That says a great deal of what the COINTELPRO system is all about. They are in the business of psyops, shaping public consciousness and the focus of current events. Deeper layers of it are manipulated in the court of public opinion after the fact, twisted and distorted. So far it is difficult to suggest anyone as revealing as Jeff Rense, Alex Jones and others are strictly following orders anywhere. It is the aftermath of MSM lies and charges that are false. Still you get that taint after all science and public statements are in that "why you all are just conspiracy nut jobs."

Face it, psyops surround everything in these matters, but consider the facts as best presented. You seldom find it from any government source, and that is by design.

[edit on 4-6-2006 by SkipShipman]



posted on Jun, 4 2006 @ 08:46 PM
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Skip are you saying that ats is is own worst enemy? If you are I see your point I've read several threads that are pure bs and others that make a good point only to be bashed in the post. I know I'll never get answers from the Gov. that why I'm here trying to sort things out. I value other peoples opinions, it helps with the "thinking outside the box".
But
If your not saying this sorry I'm confused



posted on Jun, 4 2006 @ 09:06 PM
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No information source is free of contamination, and that includes this one. Each thing we look at needs to be evaluated on a case by case basis.



posted on Jun, 4 2006 @ 09:35 PM
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Originally posted by hawk74
Skip are you saying that ats is is own worst enemy? If you are I see your point I've read several threads that are pure bs and others that make a good point only to be bashed in the post. I know I'll never get answers from the Gov. that why I'm here trying to sort things out. I value other peoples opinions, it helps with the "thinking outside the box".
But
If your not saying this sorry I'm confused


Comment: My point is what is said in the MSM after the fact, not what is said here. ATS may well have some people posting with a heavy slant on what the government may want people to hear. That goes into partisan bashing, but the left verses right paradigm is mostly absurd anyway. It began years ago, when the COINTELPRO program equivalent in the beginning of the century, most likely Rockefeller inspired, started ushering textbooks into left verses right, when the earlier argument was always "freedom verses tyranny."

The Democrats have been saddled with "left leaning," irrelevancies that distract us from opposition to anything that furthers the agenda of the rich. The Republicans do all their focus on meaningless issues such as opposing gay marriage, and appearing to oppose but doing nothing about abortion. Republicans end up with the same thing, promoting an agenda of tyranny and robbery for the rich.

At the same time the court of public opinion is focussed on anything but better wages and working conditions, freedom becomes an empty word because in it there is no opposition to the obvious tyranny from mainstream news. It is not implausibe that the simple hijacking of our language in doublespeak as stated above is what allows a few people to "earn," or rather "steal," according to your point of view the justly earned wealth of many people.

I have no fears about ATS here. If you read carefully the point is to deny ignorance.

[edit on 4-6-2006 by SkipShipman]



posted on Jun, 4 2006 @ 09:39 PM
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I had a fear that this thread might spread the idea of not trusting anything and get twisted into a growth in accusation against people(saying they are in cointelpro and insulting or harrassing them to discredit them when they oppose their views through this form of McCarthyism). so i made this OP/ED in return in hopes that maybe we can get a better idea of how to stop this.

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Jun, 4 2006 @ 10:03 PM
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Originally posted by grimreaper797
I had a fear that this thread might spread the idea of not trusting anything and get twisted into a growth in accusation against people(saying they are in cointelpro and insulting or harrassing them to discredit them when they oppose their views through this form of McCarthyism).

That wasnt quite the intention of my writings.

Not trusting a source is not the same as not believing anything they say. Its simply a matter of objectively and critically scrutinizing what they present.

This was an effort to neutralize the McCarthyism that is endemic in todays Conspiracy Theory community. It wasnt a call to arms to begin labelling people COINTELPRO, it was infact the complete opposite.

When you realize that COINTELPRO is utterly useless if you do not blindly trust conspiratorial sources the point becomes moot. Dont accuse a source of being COINTELPRO and we wont be divided and conquered. Dont blindly trust a conspiratorial source and we wont be fed disinfo.



posted on Jun, 4 2006 @ 10:11 PM
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Originally posted by subz
That wasnt quite the intention of my writings.

Not trusting a source is not the same as not believing anything they say. Its simply a matter of objectively and critically scrutinizing what they present.

This was an effort to neutralize the McCarthyism that is endemic in todays Conspiracy Theory community. It wasnt a call to arms to begin labelling people COINTELPRO, it was infact the complete opposite.

When you realize that COINTELPRO is utterly useless if you do not blindly trust conspiratorial sources the point becomes moot. Dont accuse a source of being COINTELPRO and we wont be divided and conquered. Dont blindly trust a conspiratorial source and we wont be fed disinfo.


Yes I understood your point, but others might see it differently. After reading it again I got the feeling the point was more to question the source, but not search for truth. I had a feeling that some who didnt understand the true intent would take it as just to not trust any source at all because it could all be disinfo.

I thought I could make something more blunt, and also address alot of the political snipping going on lately at other members. Alot of the insults and discrediting toward sources and members I noticed was rising. I felt your piece, though good, missed the main goal of telling them that not only are they not questioning the source but are embracing COINTELPRO by their actions.

If I was incorrect I would have no problem with my OP/ED being deleted.

edit: I think I was trying to show how members are actually embracing it by engaging in it. and that I was trying to post something to make people aware of what exactly they are doing by the insults and discrediting.

[edit on 4-6-2006 by grimreaper797]



posted on Jun, 5 2006 @ 10:13 AM
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Valhal brilliant quote: think I found the original ...what an excellent statement...



Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it----Andre Gide


Looks like I should read more Gide..although my french ain't that good...


grimreaper797:

Very nicely put "translation". Quite often the supposed "truth" is lazy in its attempts to evidence itself. The fact that it exists considered enough. You don't need to prove that what exists and is tangible indeed actually exists because it just is. But "just is" ain't "justice"


By the very nature of the internet medium we are often presented on this site with a dollop of "facts" to pick the bones out of. Often we have to "back-engineer" the truth, a process similar to that which sponsored that particular truth.

I certainly don't always agree with the findings. For sure some "truths" seem to rely on the sheer volume of evidence, hoping that doubters will be put off by having to research to deep, in a quantity is better than quality kind of way.

Also important is that I see no absolutes, certainly if you are using the internet for supporting your cause. The validity of information certainly cant be verified IMHO, there again can any documentation in this world of counterfeit and spin?

What is the truth? In the paranormal forum no doubt subjectivity, almost to the delusional, is king (or Queen of course). In the rational, material world can we really be sure that objectivity is king? As centres of our own individual multiverses there will always be more than one truth. As many truths as there are those looking. Oh no, it sounds like the truth is following some sort quantum flux state.....ouch..time to stop......mom says dinners ready



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