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Gordian Knot Of COINTELPRO Speculation

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posted on Jun, 3 2006 @ 11:48 PM
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There is a cancer growing amidst the conspiracy theory community that threatens to ruin everything if left unchecked. We are on the verge of bringing the World's attention to criminal actions that are spectacular in size and scope. Yet it could all come crashing down around us all if we do not fundamentally look at how we conduct ourselves.
 


The cancer I speak of is endemic trust issues surrounding the patronage of any, and all, members of the conspiracy theory community. Currently the three biggest names in this community are Jeff Rense, Alex Jones and of course ATS. Each one of the aforementioned sources has recently been accused of being connected to COINTELPRO. Is this possible? Yes. Is it probable, no one can really answer that.

The problem though is who are we to believe? Who are we to trust? My answer to that is that we should trust no one, the consequences of trusting the wrong source are just too dangerous. As a consequence we should not ask to be trusted ourselves either. It is also within our natures, as conspiracy theorists, to be suspicious of everything. Due to this, even mere speculation of a source being COINTELPRO is enough to jeapordize the community as a whole. Everyone is fair game and no one can be completely above suspicion, so eventually no one will be believed and we all lose.

I have long thought that the purpose of COINTELPRO would most probably be to sow discord and division amongst this community more so than to mislead it. For one it is infinately simpler and also its almost guaranteed to work given our natures. Merely raising the possibility of government sponsored conspiracy theories is enough to fatally distract us.

So what options does this leave us? No great ones, and not many good ones as far as I can see. Our single biggest weapon to counter this COINTELPRO mentality/reality is to realize what we are all about in the first place.

We have to realize that our virtues are facts and our vices are speculation. We have to agree, as a community, that speculating as to whom ever or what ever may be COINTELPRO achieves nothing. We should therefore seek to end this later day witch hunt and focus dogmatically on facts where it pertains to our own integrity.

If you suspect something to be disinformation you should seek to prove it based on facts. Please realize that tossing around the appellation COINTELPRO will raise doubts in our eternally suspicious minds as to whether or not YOU are infact COINTELPRO yourselves. This Gordian Knot of COINTELPRO speculation is already here, it is real and its already damaging the community at this most crucial of times.

It needs to stop, it is what COINTELPRO was most likely designed to do and we are aiding and abetting it with reckless abandon.

Also realize that even if something is COINTELPRO it cannot mislead unless we trust them as a source. If we remember to trust no one, and to not expect to be trusted, we can stop COINTELPRO in its tracks.

Related News Links:
www.wingtv.net
www.wingtv.net




posted on Jun, 4 2006 @ 12:11 AM
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Merely raising the possibility of government sponsored conspiracy theories is enough to fatally distract us.

That has happened, and continues to happen. There has been several proven events of government involvement in the creation of several UFO myths... the critical mind would naturally assume that it continues today. Several "9/11 Truth" scholars have speculated that many of the wildest 9/11-related conspiracy theories are indeed products of a disinformation campaign designed to discredit all conspiracy analysis.

The Internet is rampant with "conspiracy theorists" who picked it as an exciting hobby soon after 9/11. Those precious few of us who were involved in conspiracy research for much longer than that certainly see a new pattern that supports the notion that "someone" is meddling in the conspiracy theory community. The obvious conclusion is that the overwhelming and confusing mass of conflicting and bizarre theories are designed to spread confusion in an effort to hide the real conspiracies.

The lessons of the Nixon administration and the early BBS debacle with Iran Contra have taught "them" well. The Internet's culture of collaboration built on the ethics of sharing is being used against us in expert fashion.

We are well beyond the aged and archaic definitions of what COINTELPRO once was. "Counter Intelligence Programs" have fallen to the side to be replaced by "Excessive Information Programs", or a new word... EXINPRO... create so much noise, there is no hope of knowing which is truth.

In the end, the only posture one can take is to be skeptical of everything... hence, my chosen site name.
And, embrace the analysis and discussion of anything.



posted on Jun, 4 2006 @ 04:32 AM
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Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
[Several "9/11 Truth" scholars have speculated that many of the wildest 9/11-related conspiracy theories are indeed products of a disinformation campaign designed to discredit all conspiracy analysis.


Yeah, the most rediculous and strange ones also always end up being the ammo for TV programs, reports and documentary's on the subject rediculing the entire search for truth.

Why is it that always these completely retarded theory's end up being used in programs and the logical and fact backed ones are never mentioned.



posted on Jun, 4 2006 @ 06:06 AM
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This piece is clearly COINTELPRO, designed to missdirect us and allay suspicions of the authors real intentions.

Sorry, not meant to be a one-liner but humor is the best way to deal with this. Learn to recognize it when you see it and laugh it off.



posted on Jun, 4 2006 @ 07:22 AM
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subz,

Great piece, here's WAT-ting you! You ask the question "who are we to believe"? For me this quote (can't remember who it is attributed to) says it best:


Trust those who seek the truth...doubt those who claim to have found it.


That's why I like it right here where I'm at. We're just a bunch of people seeking the truth through the daily activity of gathering and sharing information and discussing whether the info is factual or should be used to fertilize the lawn. And by majority the members here don't demand you accept a given theory "as the truth", but instead just share their theory for your consideration.

Here's to critical thinking and intelligent discussion.



posted on Jun, 4 2006 @ 10:01 AM
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There is another danger...

Good old fashion "witch hunts". Most dangerous thing in the conspiracy field and what can potential rip us apart. Pointing the finger, left, right and center is what COINTELPRO is designed to do. Turning a group against itself. Ive been apart of web groups that have turned on each other due to the feeling of inflitration of others unknown. COINTELPRO aims to create paranoia and suscipion with aid of disinformation.

But, remember, COINTELPRO shouldn't be thrown around as a label.

subz, you have WATS my friend


[edit on 4-6-2006 by infinite]



posted on Jun, 4 2006 @ 12:28 PM
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Thanks a lot for the WATS votes guys


I cant speak for everyone else but yesterday saw chills running down my spine. It was a day of questioning the very principles of what I believed. There has only been one or two occasions in my life where I have experienced that.

I guess you could call it a crisis of faith, I was doubting everything conspiratorial I believed. All because one site threw into doubt the allegiance of another. It wasnt until I realized that it doesnt matter either way that I calmed down. It was my own fault for trusting something that I have no justification for trusting. Just because a site meshes with my own thoughts and beliefs should not automatically qualify it for my trust.

Armed with this new mindset I wanted to write this Op/Ed just on the off chance any one else felt similar to the way I had done. Its not a nice feeling at all. Critical thinking is damn right Val, well put. I think we're all good critical thinkers but we just have to point that gun at ourselves once in a while.



posted on Jun, 4 2006 @ 01:35 PM
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If we all we do is centered around information, facts and evidence instead of 'sources', there'll be no problem, i presume. Sure, *they* may manage to send us off on a tangent sometimes (*cough*pentagon witnesses*cough*), but once the disinfo is debunked, it becomes universally useless and new varieties will have to be invented or the entire story blows up...



posted on Jun, 4 2006 @ 01:41 PM
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good thoughts.

an ourobourous of good thought.

i find it sad watching people who i 'trust'(ie. people who actual display a thought PROCESS, as opposed to a thought policy) fall on others that i 'trust' because they feel the others have been 'compromised'.

of course, i myself have accused people of being agents, so i don't want to be hype-0-critical. but it has been engineered by the actual thought police, that people who even mention an idea are 'disinfos'.

like the 'no plane' theory of nico haupt.
or 'christophera''s concrete core (and as per spec C4 in the floor pans) theory.

all of these theories cannot be right(although the two i mentioned work fine together). however, a good fuzzy thinker will keep all 'facts' in his/her database, and not continuously judge what is true or false based on 'just knowing' what's 'ludicrous' and what is 'rational'.

edited for sexual equality.

[edit on 4-6-2006 by billybob]



posted on Jun, 4 2006 @ 02:37 PM
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good thread subz, WATS for you. I just wanted to say the quote from val fit perfectly. Trust those in the search for truth, and doubt those who claim they have found it. Some one who is in search of it, will show their thought process and show you their intentions right off the bat by watching their thought process. Some one claiming to have the truth doesnt reveil any intentions usually, just that they have fact and that you should look at it. They dont have to show you their thought process or their intent, just what they want you to see. We are the people trusted with reading between the lines and seeing past it. some cant do that, and its up to the ones that can to see past it and act on that.



posted on Jun, 4 2006 @ 04:51 PM
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As a newcomer to the field, I'm keenly aware of the fact that everything you've all said in this thread is true. I'd suggest that it takes a certain amount of personal security to reach the point where you're posting on these boards.

Conspiiracy theory is different things to different people. For some, it's a hobby. For others, its a literary genre. For a precious few, its a career. the mainstream loses sight of the fact that we all recognize the speculative nature of this pursuit. They stereotype us by saying that we all think everything we guess at is real.

My mother always told me to jus be myself. I think that's good advice for anyone dabbling in this stuff. There will always be witch hunts, and there will always be charlatans and fakers of every sort. Based on my limited exposure to counter intelligence groups, the only way to beat them is to provide them with as little dirt as possible.

COINTELPRO and groups like them will always find a way to twist what you say. Any good speech writer can do that. that happens ever yday in real world politics. Accepting that you'll be misrepresented is not the same thing as just letting it happened. The only way to keep the misrepresentation to a minimum is to keep speaking up.



posted on Jun, 4 2006 @ 05:40 PM
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Originally posted by grimreaper797
good thread subz, WATS for you. I just wanted to say the quote from val fit perfectly. Trust those in the search for truth, and doubt those who claim they have found it. Some one who is in search of it, will show their thought process and show you their intentions right off the bat by watching their thought process. Some one claiming to have the truth doesnt reveil any intentions usually, just that they have fact and that you should look at it. They dont have to show you their thought process or their intent, just what they want you to see. We are the people trusted with reading between the lines and seeing past it. some cant do that, and its up to the ones that can to see past it and act on that.


It's not too often I even use my WATS, but today (and this thread) has been special. I've used two here! grim...your statements about a person trying to honestly share something always showing their thought process, but those trying to sell you a bill of goods not doing that - you said it better than I ever could.
Here's WAT-ting you!



posted on Jun, 4 2006 @ 05:48 PM
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thank you val, but it was your quote that kind of prompted me to make the statement. I felt it needed to be explained further because of the relevence it has in the conspiracy world.



posted on Jun, 4 2006 @ 06:03 PM
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May as well post link myself, it provides an exellent source for the history over all for these types of conduct.



During the late 60s, the CIA frequently recruited young men to infiltrate 'subversive' (generally antiwar) groups as agents provocateurs. These infiltrators were to try and agitate the groups and get them to surrender their nonviolent tactics for more militant ones. As part of the joint COINTELPRO effort with the FBI, the CIA maintained wiretaps, 'bugging' devices, hidden tape recorders, and other gimmicks for the invasion of privacy at the premises of the meeting places of many of these groups.
Here on Our Shores: Domestic Operations



posted on Jun, 4 2006 @ 07:04 PM
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Here is another thing to think of about "The Truth"

Its true that you should only trust the ones that seek the truth and not the ones that think they know the truth.

The world is a vast place and there are so many factions at work with barely anything in black and white and nearly everything in grey. The real and absolute truth doesn't exist and the general truth is just to complex to ever uncover or understand. All you can do is search for the truth and uncover information and hard facts bit by bit.

People that think Bush & Co are the ultimate evil or people that think that as current events unravel, Iran is hellbent on destroying the world, you need to know that those things aren't mutualy exclusive, and they can and probably are just little pieces in the dynamic engine that is our society.

Factions, peoples alignments to these factions, reasons, plans, purpouses, whatever, they change constantly and rapidly.

All we can hope to do is unravel enough of the big picture so that we can help bring some people to justice and ultimatly even be able to stop some of the things that are wrong in this world from progressing, ever happening or happening again.

There is no such thing as "the big picture" because it changes as fast as the static on your TV.

I remember watching the series Angel a couple years ago and the lead caracter made a statement in there:

"Hero's don't accept the world as it is, they fight to make the world as they think it should be"

Don't just search the truth, uncover the facts and fight to make the world the way you think it should be, don't accept the world as the factions that try to run the world want it to be.

Don't just search for the truth, make the truth happen.



posted on Jun, 4 2006 @ 07:13 PM
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thematrix,

Your statements go along with what I have long contended is the ultimate challenge and it is not the old conspiracies that are re-hashed (even though the re-hashings bring new viewpoints and evidence to bear). The ultimate challenge is to try to discern the facts in the real-time events that play out around us.



posted on Jun, 4 2006 @ 07:21 PM
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Like my father says "Believe half of what you see and none of what you hear/read"
That the only sound advice he ever gave me,



posted on Jun, 4 2006 @ 07:26 PM
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Great thread


Also realize that even if something is COINTELPRO it cannot mislead unless we trust them as a source. If we remember to trust no one, and to not expect to be trusted, we can stop COINTELPRO in its tracks.


Besides just misleading/dividing people, I think it is important to keep in mind that COINTELPRO serves more than just one purpose.

True, dis-information might be the main point, but what about intelligence gathering?

I can not begin to list the number of times that I have seen people openly suggest armed revolution, and/or any other number of questionable activities, and not just on ATS either.

Besides being careful about what sources you believe, I think people should also be careful about what they post.

[edit on 4-6-2006 by phoenixhasrisin]



posted on Jun, 4 2006 @ 07:35 PM
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Amen phoenix
revolt with a vote
I don't know so I ask. Who runs this ciontelpro thingy?



posted on Jun, 4 2006 @ 07:41 PM
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cointelpro is FBI. look up the official bit about it. The FBI used cointelpro between early 1950's to 1971 as an attack against civil rights activists. There were 3 goals. Disrupt information flow in the organizations/groups, Input false information and circulate it through the organizations/groups, assassinate leading individuals in the organization/groups.

Look it up though, you should be able to find a decent amount of information on it.

edit: talk about making myself look like an ass, i put CIA instead of FBI


[edit on 4-6-2006 by grimreaper797]



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