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do electrons exist ?

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posted on Jun, 3 2006 @ 10:31 PM
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Had a question for all of you the have knowledge in the filed. Do electrons exist, meaning are they acctual particles or do they represent a vibration in atoms ?




posted on Jun, 3 2006 @ 10:48 PM
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To be short-yes. They do.

Proof:
-Alpha (or Beta?) radiation
-Cathode Ray Tubes
-Chemical reactions

Electrons are detectable particles, but they do exhibit some wavelike properties.

Chemical reactions exist because of electrons. Ionic bonds, Molecular, or otherwise. To learn about this check your local chemistry textbook.



posted on Jun, 3 2006 @ 10:56 PM
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Wrong context.
I meant do they exsist in an electrical circuit ? Do they "flow" through copper atoms and get passed on or is it just vibration among atoms close to each other ? I know they exsist in atoms (in orbit around nucleus). But wanted to know if they are free or not
in an electrical circuit ?



posted on Jun, 3 2006 @ 11:18 PM
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Interesting question. What is an electrical charge? Are millions of free electrons shooting down the wire?



posted on Jun, 4 2006 @ 04:11 AM
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Depends. Do you want to know its position or its velocity? You can discern one or the other but not both simultaneously, or so they say.



posted on Jun, 4 2006 @ 04:37 AM
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Electrons are theory in my opinion, and I will explain my position on that. All through out my electronics training (7 years in total ) not one lecturer could even begin to explain what magentism is (from an elemental level). Now they could without hesitation repeat word for word the effects of magnetism and its properties and how it reacts with other fields ect... but none could tell me that there is a wave particle or adequately describe what the driving fundamental element of a magnetic field was.
Move onto an electron and anyone with even the basic understanding can explain the principles of electron flow ( current ) the magnetic flux associated with a moving electron ( hmm interesting ) that it takes a pressure ( voltage ) to push the outer electrons into another outer valence shell of an atom away from that emotive force.
Show me an electron that exist's on its own without an atom or without being attached to another element and I will agree that they actually exist and aren't properties ascociated within an atom and are a function of the sub atomic particles with in it such as the Bosun Higgs particles.



posted on Jun, 4 2006 @ 07:34 AM
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Yes, electrons exist in a wire. What's happening is that the wire's energy source provides enough juice for spare electrons in the atomic orbits to "jump" out from one atom, and onto another. However, since there are only a certain number of atoms, and certain number of electrons, they won't go anywhere without more atoms being introduced.

This is where the light-switch comes in. It breaks the path. When the path is connected again (light-switch is "on"), then electrons begin jumping through the atoms in this new wire, and the circuit completes. So long as an electron is taking the time to travel from one atom to another (and since the jumping's not instantaneous, you develop resistance, since the electron heats up the atom it jumps to), then you have current.

I'm sure it's more complicated than this (as everything is), but that's the standard basics.



posted on Jun, 4 2006 @ 08:04 AM
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Originally posted by imbalanced
Wrong context.
I meant do they exsist in an electrical circuit ? Do they "flow" through copper atoms and get passed on or is it just vibration among atoms close to each other ? I know they exsist in atoms (in orbit around nucleus). But wanted to know if they are free or not
in an electrical circuit ?


They flow.
In metals you have free and moveable electrones more or less shared by all atomes. Like a sea of electeones. For a current to flow you need free moveable electrons. The flow of the electrons (negative charged) creates the magentic field you can measure. Without a flow or move of charges there is no magnetic field.
The flow of electron through a metall is slow very slow. Few millimeter a minute. But there are a lot. The Information, a voltage (presure) puls on/off, is passed with close to light speed. So you 'hit' one electron and this 'hits' the next and this the next and the next and the next till to the end of the wire. (although 'hit' is little worng they do hardly touch each other, they 'repel' through their equal charge)

But for imagine:
The information/puls travel it's like the transfear of a momentum in a chain of balls that touches each other. You kick the first one and the last one almost imediatly leaves the chain.

and to the posts before:
electrones can be radiated. They can even leave the metal if you put enough energy (light with the right frequence) into it. And you can measure the radiation of electrones like someone here poitned out (B (beta)-radiation)
electrones are particle but also shows the wave behaviour (known from light) like all particles do it.



posted on Jun, 4 2006 @ 10:00 AM
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You are discussing voltage as a pressure but as i understand it, its a potential difference. For example there is no pressure pushing a ball down a hill but it rolls down because there is a potential difference between the bottom of the hill and the top. The ball converts its gravitational potential energy to kinetic energy and rolls down the hill. A similar thing can be seen in an electrical circuit.



posted on Jun, 4 2006 @ 02:54 PM
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Originally posted by mazzroth
Electrons are theory in my opinion, and I will explain my position on that. All through out my electronics training (7 years in total ) not one lecturer could even begin to explain what magentism is (from an elemental level). Now they could without hesitation repeat word for word the effects of magnetism and its properties and how it reacts with other fields ect... but none could tell me that there is a wave particle or adequately describe what the driving fundamental element of a magnetic field was.

Years and years ago I had this exact same conundrum. I had been a math major but switched schools and degree paths to engineering. In engineering school I learned about circuits and electricity, but I felt the same way you mention here. I set out to find out exactly what electricity is. I had no idea how deep the subject got. I boiled it all down to quantum mechanics, but didn't go as faras to learn to mathematically manipulate the quantuim equations. I'd been too long removed from higher level algebras to accomplish it with easer, in my spare time.

Turned out I had already learned all the math I needed to know everything there is to know, I'd just never been told that that was what it was used for when I was a math major!

Anyway, there's a good reason you haven't been told what magnetism actually is - you need vector analytical calculus to understand it:




Originally posted by mazzrothShow me an electron that exist's on its own without an atom or without being attached to another element and I will agree that they actually exist and aren't properties ascociated within an atom and are a function of the sub atomic particles with in it such as the Bosun Higgs particles.


You are staring at the collision of an entire stream of these "unattached" electrons with phosphors on the inside of your CRT screen as you read this post.

Harte



posted on Jun, 4 2006 @ 08:48 PM
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Originally posted by mazzroth
All through out my electronics training (7 years in total ) not one lecturer could even begin to explain what magentism is (from an elemental level).


Electronics lecturers are not physics professors. Wrong subject!



posted on Jun, 4 2006 @ 10:20 PM
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Damn lots of responses on this didnt think there were many people in it as me. I took a few electronic class's but simple and basic where we did ohms law,parallel,series, dc/ac
and a few other simple electronics subjects. But we only scratched the surface, even i asked my professor about flux and what the hell it is, I even asked the question to an electrical engineer at IBM, all gave me the theoretical answer, they didnt not name it or place a physical attribute to it, just something you can measure and see the effects of.
Anyways Heres the answer i gathered from all of your repsonses...

Electricity (charge) , when going from point a to point b will pass on the charge to an atom next to it (by repeling the atom on a quantum level?) , then travels along the train (wire) to its new home which is ground.

correct ?

On to the big quantum question which i dont think anyone can answer ...at least in english: What is the force that causes atoms to repel each other ? I am not talking about negative positive, there must be some sort of mass or something that physically moves it, or am i thinking newtonian and this dosnt fly in the quantum world ?



posted on Jun, 5 2006 @ 10:20 AM
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Originally posted by imbalanced
But we only scratched the surface, even i asked my professor about flux and what the hell it is, I even asked the question to an electrical engineer at IBM, all gave me the theoretical answer, they didnt not name it or place a physical attribute to it, just something you can measure and see the effects of.


What do you think is mass, force or a gravitional field? If you dig deep into the physics you will discover that no one has a clue of anything. The thing escapes our imagination and even our reality. It's the dream of so many to understand what this elements of the nature are. We simple dont have the answers yet. But at least we can descripe the (nature) behaviour with the help of some equations.


Originally posted by imbalanced
Anyways Heres the answer i gathered from all of your repsonses...

Electricity (charge) , when going from point a to point b will pass on the charge to an atom next to it (by repeling the atom on a quantum level?) , then travels along the train (wire) to its new home which is ground.

correct ?


uhh..
In a classical circuit, what travels from a to b are always negative charged particle called electrones. The positiv charge is in the atom kern and that one is not moving, except some termal vibration. An Electron does never lose its charges.
equal charges are repeling each other (electrons on electron). unequal charges are attracting each other (electron, proton). You can have it in semiconductor that electrones fill the hole of atoms that just miss an electron but in metals it doesnt have to be, there are free electrones sheared by all atomes and thats the one that flow. But the flow is handicaped by the atoms vibrating due temperature and so the electrones can not travel that free without any resitance (collision, outer not free electrones of metal atom ).



Originally posted by imbalanced
On to the big quantum question which i dont think anyone can answer ...at least in english: What is the force that causes atoms to repel each other ? I am not talking


there are 4 elementare forces in nature. But why and how this works and all that.. see my my answer above. Scientist are working on the answer.



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