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"Screw Loose Change" video

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posted on Jun, 6 2006 @ 11:35 AM
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Originally posted by OneSidedCookie


Figure 1. Flames and debris exploded from the World Trade Center south tower immediately after the airplane’s impact. The black smoke indicates a fuel-rich fire


I can't believe someone with no education in fire safety or engineering is telling me about this.


Emphasis mine.

He was talking about the fireballs, not the fires immediately after impact. The fireballs were fuel rich.

Now I just hope to god that you can tell the difference between a fire and a fireball.





posted on Jun, 6 2006 @ 12:00 PM
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Originally posted by OneSidedCookie
Just updated on the video website, Madrid Building partially collapsed due to fire and explosions heard at Madrid


A partial collapse is what one would expect from a fire much more severe than the WTC fires, and that lasted almost an entire day.






Also notice how hot it got,


At its peak, temperatures reached 800 degrees Celsius (1,472 F), said Javier Sanz, head of Madrid firefighters, on Sunday.


www.whatreallyhappened.com...

Which is what one would also expect, considering open atmospheres max out at around 825 C, not over 1000 C as NIST tries to assert the WTC Towers suffered with much tamer fires.

And then the building had to be fully deconstructed afterwards since it wouldn't fully collapse.

And maybe, before anyone points out the two reinforced concrete columns in the center of that building, someone can explain what this is, still standing as WTC2 wraps up collapsing:




posted on Jun, 6 2006 @ 01:40 PM
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Originally posted by pepsi78
dear OneSidedCookie, I dont even need sceintifical evidence to prove 911 was planed.


Yeah, screw science. That stuff is for nerds anyway.


The government faked it just liked they faked the moon landings, right?





Originally posted by Slap Nuts
Your precious PM article leaves out ONE GLARING PROBLEM...

Interconnected steel is a GIANT heatsink. The steel would have transmitted the heat. This would have NOT allowed any section to reach the temperatures you suggest.

In this house we OBEY the laws of thermodynamics.

Do you actually know anything about physics and material science or are you pretending?




The floor slabs were 4” thick. The floor trusses were not all that massive.

fire-research.group.shef.ac.uk...




Originally posted by Slap Nuts
1. The box colums were not C or I shaped. The walls of the columns were 2"-4" thick. This is a HUGE amount of mas to heat in order to "weaken". The cross section area is not small like you are making it out to be.



Not on the impact/fire floors.





Originally posted by Masisoar
Minus the jet fuel, and you get common materials found around the office place, that fueling an oxygen starved fire (lack of oxygen).Remember this, there was no strong wind gusts that day, so you didn't have any air, or oxygen rushing into the situation as one would like to have a good flame. You're only inlet is the impact zone itself and the windows that were knocked out, not to mention the air wasn't exact being forced into a focused area, along with the fuel (office/building materials) to give you a strong flame as you'd get from a bunsen burner for example.


Have you ever heard of the stack effect?



Originally posted by
And maybe, before anyone points out the two reinforced concrete columns in the center of that building, someone can explain what this is, still standing as WTC2 wraps up collapsing:


bsbray11, I’m disappointed in you. Don’t tell me you are actually buying that crap about the 17’ concrete walls, etc.



posted on Jun, 6 2006 @ 01:53 PM
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Yeah, screw science. That stuff is for nerds anyway.


The government faked it just liked they faked the moon landings, right?


then tell me why no arabs on the flight list? maybe you can clear that up.



posted on Jun, 6 2006 @ 02:18 PM
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Originally posted by pepsi78



Yeah, screw science. That stuff is for nerds anyway.


The government faked it just liked they faked the moon landings, right?


then tell me why no arabs on the flight list? maybe you can clear that up.




This is based on what?

a newspaper article listing the victims?

Or maybe you consider the hijackers to be victims also?



posted on Jun, 6 2006 @ 02:21 PM
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pepsi, are you speaking of that certain CNN flight manifest?



posted on Jun, 6 2006 @ 02:24 PM
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Originally posted by HowardRoark
bsbray11, I’m disappointed in you. Don’t tell me you are actually buying that crap about the 17’ concrete walls, etc.


No, I don't think they had to have been 17' feet thick. I think that's a straw man you're using.


Concrete is gray, and a bunch of box columns sticking into the air wouldn't have been opaque. Funny that so many institutions and engineers wrote articles about reinforced concrete cores, too, both pre- and post-9/11. I guess they were just all very confused for all those years until FEMA came along to clear things up for everyone.



posted on Jun, 6 2006 @ 02:25 PM
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Err, the victim lists didn't have the Hijackers on, the manifests did - thats how they worked out who did it? Only no-one has published any manifests apart from the boston Globe for Flight 11.




The Boston Globe reported on its web site Thursday that it had obtained a copy of the complete manifest list of the planes hijacked from Boston.

The Globe said according to the manifest, Mohamed Atta, one of the suspected terrorists, was assigned seat 8D in business class on American Airlines Flight 11, directly across the aisle from Hollywood producer David Angell and his wife, Lynn, who were in seats 8A and 8B, respectively. Seated next to Atta in seat 8G was Abdul Alomari. FBI investigators have searched Alomari's home in Vero Beach.

The Globe reported the passenger list for United Air Lines Flight 175 shows that Marwan Alshehri got on the plane that left Boston and slammed into one of the Manhattan skyscrapers 15 minutes after Flight 11. An FAA pilot directory information spelled his name Marwan Alshehhi.
www.cbsnews.com...


They did kind of explain on these lists that they were of victims and put together by the media, not from manifests and that they ommitted hijacker names out of respect. I guess they also expected people to use common sense, how dumb of them was that?



posted on Jun, 6 2006 @ 02:48 PM
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Originally posted by HowardRoark
This is based on what?

a newspaper article listing the victims?

Or maybe you consider the hijackers to be victims also?


Actually, based on all of the media listings of the occupants of the planes.


Here is a summary of the anomalies between the lists.

Collectively, these sources list the names of 95 alleged
innocents.

CNN lists 87 names, which should be a complete list ,but indicates
that the list is incomplete. The 8 left out are Vamsikrishna, Roux,
Iskander,Jalbert, Tu,Weems,Ward and Booms.

USAT lists 86 names, citing this as a "partial list", Those
missing are Caplin, Jalbert, Jude Larson, Natalie Larson, Roux,
Tu,Weems,Ward and Iskander.

NBC lists 87 names. Its the same as USAT with the addition of
Iskander, but changes Peter Hashem to Peter el-Hachem.

PBS is identical to NBC.

The Boston daily lists 89 innocents and describes it as a a
partial list. Those missing are Iskander,Vamsikrishna, Tu ,
Weems,Ward and Booms. It is the only list to name Jalbert.

A year later it lists 87 names, changing Heath Smith to Heather
Smith, Hashem to el-Hachem , and losing Caplin, the two Larsons,
Jalbert and Roux for Iskander, Vamsikrishna.and Booms.

The Washington Post published a "partial list" containing 89
names. Those missing are Iskander,Vamsikrishna, Jalbert , Tu ,
Weems and Ward .


www.whatreallyhappened.com...

The FAA released partial lists, and left it to the media to fill in the rest. You can see the obvious conflicts that arose from that, but aside from the missing hijackers in all of the media reports, why didn't the FAA release complete lists?

Imagine how that would go over in a court of law: it wouldn't.



posted on Jun, 6 2006 @ 02:50 PM
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Originally posted by HowardRoark

Originally posted by pepsi78



Yeah, screw science. That stuff is for nerds anyway.


The government faked it just liked they faked the moon landings, right?


then tell me why no arabs on the flight list? maybe you can clear that up.




This is based on what?

a newspaper article listing the victims?

Or maybe you consider the hijackers to be victims also?

No I'm talking about the pasanger list from the air line, no arabs on the list,how can they be victims howard they arent anything, only imaginary


[edit on 6-6-2006 by pepsi78]



posted on Jun, 6 2006 @ 03:01 PM
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Originally posted by bsbray11

Collectively, these sources list the names of 95 alleged
innocents.


That is disgusting.



posted on Jun, 6 2006 @ 03:02 PM
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Originally posted by LeftBehind
Well you certainly said that. But I fail to see how you proved this assertion.
Do you have proof of this?
Or should we just take your word for it?


Read my posts and dispute the evidence used to make the assertion.

There really is no true debate here. I post observations and assumptions far more logical and far more possible than the NIST, PM, FEMA or 9/11 Comission and all you can do is respod with "prove it"?

The NIST has proven NOTHING.
PM and FEMA have proven NOTHING.
the 9/11 Comisssion has proven NOTHING.

How? They actually got to SEE the evidence.

Now the evidence has been DESTROYED or supressed and no one will ever get to see it.

In short, they couldn't prove it WITH evidence yet you want me to PROVE it without?

All any of these groups do is make observations and attempt to come up with the most plausible theory of what occured within their acceptable parameters. If they cannot produce PROOF, that is a SMOKING GUN, how can I? One would think they would at least produce some warped steel or something.

All I can do is point out how their observations make no sense from a physical and logical stand point.

I have done that. You are ignoring it by asking me to do the impossible.



posted on Jun, 6 2006 @ 03:05 PM
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Originally posted by HowardRoark

The floor slabs were 4” thick. The floor trusses were not all that massive.

Not on the impact/fire floors.



So it is your contention that the floor trusses were the only heatsink?

The NIST diagrams of the impacted colums show that only a small percentage were damaged on "the impact/fire floors". Even the damaged colums would have not disappeared.



posted on Jun, 6 2006 @ 03:11 PM
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No, my contention is that the damage to the floor trusses was the ultimate cause of the collapse.



posted on Jun, 6 2006 @ 03:17 PM
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double post removed

[edit on 6-6-2006 by pepsi78]



posted on Jun, 6 2006 @ 03:17 PM
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Hmm let's see, I think CNN will do as a credible source.
www.cnn.com...


PASSENGERS
Paul Ambrose, 32, of Washington, was a physician who worked with the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and the surgeon general to address racial and ethnic disparities in health. A 1995 graduate of Marshall University School of Medicine, Ambrose last year was named the Luther Terry Fellow of the Association of Teachers of Preventative Medicine.

Yeneneh Betru, 35, was from Burbank, California.

M.J. Booth

Bernard Brown, 11, was a student at Leckie Elementary School in Washington. He was embarking on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

Suzanne Calley, 42, of San Martin, California, was an employee of Cisco Systems Inc.

William Caswell

Sarah Clark, 65, of Columbia, Maryland, was a sixth-grade teacher at Backus Middle School in Washington. She was accompanying a student on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

Asia Cottom, 11, was a student at Backus Middle School in Washington. Asia was embarking on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

James Debeuneure, 58, of Upper Marlboro, Maryland, was a fifth-grade teacher at Ketcham Elementary School in Washington. He was accompanying a student on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

Rodney Dickens, 11, was a student at Leckie Elementary School in Washington. He was embarking on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

Eddie Dillard

Charles Droz

Barbara Edwards, 58, of Las Vegas, Nevada, was a teacher at Palo Verde High School in Las Vegas.

Charles S. Falkenberg, 45, of University Park, Maryland, was the director of research at ECOlogic Corp., a software engineering firm. He worked on data systems for NASA and also developed data systems for the study of global and regional environmental issues. Falkenburg was traveling with his wife, Leslie Whittingham, and their two daughters, Zoe, 8, and Dana, 3.

Zoe Falkenberg, 8, of University Park, Maryland, was the daughter of Charles Falkenberg and Leslie Whittingham.

Dana Falkenberg, 3, of University Park, Maryland, was the daughter of Charles Falkenberg and Leslie Whittingham.

Joe Ferguson was the director of the National Geographic Society's geography education outreach program in Washington. He was accompanying a group of students and teachers on an educational trip to the Channel Islands in California. A Mississippi native, he joined the society in 1987. "Joe Feguson's final hours at the Geographic reveal the depth of his commitment to one of the things he really loved," said John Fahey Jr., the society's president. "Joe was here at the office until late Monday evening preparing for this trip. It was his goal to make this trip perfect in every way."

Wilson "Bud" Flagg of Millwood, Virginia, was a retired Navy admiral and retired American Airlines pilot.

Dee Flagg

Richard Gabriel

Ian Gray, 55, of Washington was the president of a health-care consulting firm.

Stanley Hall, 68, was from Rancho Palos Verdes, California.

Bryan Jack, 48, of Alexandria, Virginia, was a senior executive at the Defense Department.

Steven D. "Jake" Jacoby, 43, of Alexandria, Virginia, was the chief operating officer of Metrocall Inc., a wireless data and messaging company.

Ann Judge, 49, of Virginia was the travel office manager for the National Geographic Society. She was accompanying a group of students and teachers on an educational trip to the Channel Islands in California. Society President John Fahey Jr. said one of his fondest memories of Judge is a voice mail she and a colleague once left him while they were rafting the Monkey River in Belize. "This was quintessential Ann -- living life to the fullest and wanting to share it with others," he said.

Chandler Keller, 29, was a Boeing propulsion engineer from El Segundo, California.

Yvonne Kennedy

Norma Khan, 45, from Reston, Virginia was a nonprofit organization manager.

Karen A. Kincaid, 40, was a lawyer with the Washington firm of Wiley Rein & Fielding. She joined the firm in 1993 and was part of the its telecommunications practice. She was married to Peter Batacan.

Norma Langsteuerle

Dong Lee

Dora Menchaca, 45, of Santa Monica, California, was the associate director of clinical research for a biotech firm.

Christopher Newton, 38, of Anaheim, California, was president and chief executive officer of Work-Life Benefits, a consultation and referral service. He was married and had two children. Newton was on his way back to Orange County to retrieve his family's yellow Labrador, who had been left behind until they could settle into their new home in Arlington, Virginia.

Barbara Olson, 45, was a conservative commentator who often appeared on CNN and was married to U.S. Solicitor General Theodore Olson. She twice called her husband as the plane was being hijacked and described some details, including that the attackers were armed with knives. She had planned to take a different flight, but she changed it at the last minute so that she could be with her husband on his birthday. She worked as an investigator for the House Government Reform Committee in the mid-1990s and later worked on the staff of Senate Minority Whip Don Nickles.

Ruben Ornedo, 39, of Los Angeles, California, was a Boeing propulsion engineer.

Robert Penniger, 63, of Poway, California, was an electrical engineer with BAE Systems.

Lisa Raines, 42, was senior vice president for government relations at the Washington office of Genzyme, a biotechnology firm. She was from Great Falls, Virginia, and was married to Stephen Push. She worked with the U.S. Food and Drug Administration on developing a new policy governing cellular therapies, announced in 1997. She also worked on other major health-care legislation.

Todd Reuben, 40, of Potomac, Maryland, was a tax and business lawyer.

John Sammartino

Diane Simmons

George Simmons

Mari-Rae Sopper of Santa Barbara, California, was a women's gymnastics coach at the University of California at Santa Barbara. She had just gotten the post August 31 and was making the trip to California to start work.

Bob Speisman, 47, was from Irvington, New York.

Hilda Taylor was a sixth-grade teach

Leonard Taylor was from Reston, Virginia.

Leslie A. Whittington, 45, was from University Park, Maryland. The professor of public policy at Georgetown University in Washington was traveling with her husband, Charles Falkenberg, 45, and their two daughters, Zoe, 8, and Dana, 3. They were traveling to Los Angeles to catch a connection to Australia. Whittington had been named a visiting fellow at Australian National University in Canberra.

John Yamnicky, 71, was from Waldorf, Maryland.

Vicki Yancey

Shuyin Yang

Yuguag Zheng

Where are the terrorists?, I fail to see any of them on the list.
The 64 pasanger was supose to be one of the terrorists, the problem is he did not have a ticket , question? how do you get on the plane with out a ticket?


[edit on 6-6-2006 by pepsi78]



posted on Jun, 6 2006 @ 03:42 PM
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Originally posted by HowardRoark
That is disgusting.


So is your job. But don't complain to me.

You're still looking at a pretty big inconsistency there.

I notice that you also use this one-liner to avoid any intelligent response. Just an emotional appeal of sorts.

[edit on 6-6-2006 by bsbray11]



posted on Jun, 6 2006 @ 03:57 PM
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It even says in the URL 'victims'
Hello?
It doesn't list the hijackers in the Flight 11 list of victims either but the acquired and published manifest as I posted shows them in it... As I said, the biggest mistake anyone ever made was thinking that they wouldn't have to s-p-e-l-l it out so everyone could understand.
And people like you wonder why you're never told anything? It's because everyone's to scared to blink in case it's twisted into meaning whatever is on a select fews agenda, as well as the fact that a lot of people consistantly prove they have neither the capability or will to actually process the information their given.



posted on Jun, 6 2006 @ 04:18 PM
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Originally posted by AgentSmith
It doesn't list the hijackers in the Flight 11 list of victims either but the acquired and published manifest as I posted shows them in it...


The problem is with the total number of occupants and the total number of victims listed, gathered by comparing different sets released by different media corporations. No room is left for the hijackers, and victims' names were added and removed from lists over time, without acknowledgements of errors or conflicting numbers or etc.

Is there anywhere I can view the complete manifest?



posted on Jun, 6 2006 @ 04:19 PM
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pepsi baby:

"This memorial lists those who died in New York City, Washington, D.C. and Pennsylvania when terrorists hijacked four U.S. planes on September 11, 2001. The list includes those listed as "confirmed dead" and "reported dead" by the Associated Press which defines the terms as follows:

* CONFIRMED DEAD Includes victims who have been confirmed dead by a coroner's office or the Defense Department. It also includes those a court has declared legally dead, even if no body has been recovered. Once the court has made such a finding, a death certificate can be issued.
* REPORTED DEAD Includes those whose deaths have been reported by family, employers, mortuaries, places of worship or by the airlines that listed them as aboard one of the four flights. Includes people for whom memorial services have been held, even if their bodies have not been recovered or positively identified. (Those identified by federal authorities as the hijackers are not included).

Personal information accompanying the individual records comes from CNN reports, newspaper obituaries and information submitted by friends and family. The photos were submitted to CNN by friends or family of the victims or used with permission from media partners as noted on each photo. To send photos or additional information about those listed here or for questions about the site, please send an e-mail to memorial@cnn.com. "


www.cnn.com...

go to about this site


the hijackers werent included



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