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Ishaqi Massacre Claim Baseless

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posted on Jun, 6 2006 @ 04:47 PM
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Originally posted by loam
There was a time when our trustworthiness made positions such as yours, golemenia, fairly reasonable. But that appears to be no longer true. In an era where our government has been repeatedly caught lying, one can not help but wonder whether we are the real fools....

For me, the most painful thing about all that is going on is the dismantling of our integrity from within... Who would have believed such a thing possible?


Well said. And this hits the nail dead on the .. Whether Muslims fighting infidels lie to them or not is irrelevant. The fact is, our goverment employees have lied to the Board of Directors (that would be the voting US Citizens) over and over again, and been caught at it over and over again.

It is this spreading rot of morality on the part of our government that makes these kind of claims credible, whether any given such claim is actually true, or not.

And I for one don't buy the argument that 'governments always lie'. That does not make it acceptable that our government employees lie.

If our government employees had the credibility they seem to think they have, then when claims like this came along - intentional murder, followed by official coverup - then it would be rightly laughed out the door. As it is, given the corruption here at home, we are left wondering "could this be true?".




posted on Jun, 6 2006 @ 05:58 PM
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Originally posted by golemina
The Muslims would seek to use our sense of morality and self-restraint against us.



Not "would" have, are, and will always use that against us.



posted on Jun, 6 2006 @ 08:33 PM
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Originally posted by loam
And yet....


There was a time when our trustworthiness made positions such as yours, golemenia, fairly reasonable. But that appears to be no longer true. In an era where our government has been repeatedly caught lying, one can not help but wonder whether we are the real fools....

For me, the most painful thing about all that is going on is the dismantling of our integrity from within... Who would have believed such a thing possible?


Again...the over-generalizations and exagerations....

Where was the government caught lying?...

The spying?.... How long has Echelon, and other programs that search for keywords have existed?

Some people keep making exagerations as to what is happening, pretty much on everything. From "the 9/11 Commision found there is no connection between Al Qaeda and Saddam"...when in actuality the 9/11 Commission said "they found no definite proof that Saddam helped Al Qaeda on the 9/11 attacks" which is a far cry from what many people have claimed here.

Another member and myself gave excerpts and links to back what we were saying, yet the story around here, by those who opose the present administration, keeps being "no link between Al Qaeda and Saddam"...

Now about the spying...noone in their right mind and with the right knowledge will tell you that "the goverment has agents listening to the phone calls of 10s of millions of Americans..." that's impossible.... however there have been, and still exist programs which search for keywords and string of keywords.

If enough words match the search criteria in those conversations, the phone numbers will probably be kept in a computer and see how many times those keywords or others appear in conversations done through that telephone, but i doubt any secret agency has enough resources for them to listen to all those recordings. However if those words are found to come from a person known to have some terrorist link, whatsoever, i am certain those calls are recorded, and there are some government agents trying to figure out what these people are all about... This is a far cry from "all American citizens who make calls in the United States are being listened to by the government".....

If you want to even claim, once again..., that president Bush and the administration lied about Saddam's regime, I can give you once again dozens of reports from all over the world, and from many governments around the world, which will say you are not telling the truth and are exagerating for some reason. I have found that the real reason for some people exagerating stories, is because of a political agenda, or even because "it is en vogue among some people, quite a few being the younger generation, to protest about anything, even if they don't know what they are protesting about, or if they have to exagerate to present their own political agenda".

Anyways, back to this story, I haven't seen anyone "who oposes the present administration" say anything about the real possibility that this story, and some others, could be propaganda from those Iraqi insurgents and other insurgents/terrorists, who want the coalition out of Iraq so they can take over and do whatever they want in Iraq...

[edit on 6-6-2006 by Muaddib]



posted on Jun, 6 2006 @ 10:05 PM
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Vietnam- My Lai 1 for the investigators. How many did they miss. Check out Operation Phoenix

Ishaqi, Haditha, Chicago New York and it's all the same street.



posted on Jun, 6 2006 @ 11:30 PM
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Originally posted by Muaddib
...because of a political agenda...


...which is how I read your entire response...



posted on Jun, 7 2006 @ 03:47 AM
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Wasn't there a survivor of the massacre? Like a wee girl? Is the accusations based on her interpretation of events, or has she been manipulated by her close "relatives" to tell half-truths? Is there even any proof that she was even there? I sincerely doubt if a U.S. unit went on a seek and destroy mission, that they'd miss some wee girl hiding in bodies. Hell, I guess if they went and killed everybody there, then there wouldn't be any hubbub. Cause there's a witness, (an impressionable witness) it complicates matters.
This is a very strange case.



posted on Jun, 7 2006 @ 04:02 AM
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Here is what I have to say about this "Matter" of "Baseless" claims.

And I will quote myself from Another Post from this same subject.


Press Accounts Suggest Possible Military 'Cover-up' in Ishagi Killings


Editor&Publisher

The U.S military said Saturday it had found no wrongdoing in the March 15 raid on a home in Ishaqi that left nine Iraqi civilians dead. But, as with the apparent massacre in Haditha, will a military "coverup" in this case come undone?

The Iraqi police charge that American forces executed the civilians, including a 75-year-old woman and a 6-month-old baby. The BBC has been airing video of the dead civilians, mainly children, who appeared to be shot, possibly at close range. Photographs taken just after the raid for Agence France-Presse, and reports at the time by Reuters and Knight Ridder, also appear to largely back up the charge of an atrocity.


Matthew Schofield, a Knight Ridder reporter in Baghdad, has obtained an Iraqi police report which, he reveals today, accuses American troops of executing 11 people, including a 75-year-old woman and a 6-month-old infant, in the aftermath of a raid last Wednesday on a house about 60 miles north of Baghdad.

The villagers were killed after American troops herded them into a single room of the house, according to the police. Then the soldiers burned three vehicles, killed the villagers' animals and blew up the house. Knight Ridder has distributed a copy of the report.


"Brig. Gen. Issa al-Juboori, who .s the center, said that his office assembled the report on Thursday and that it accurately reflects the direction of the current police investigation into the incident.":



"According to police, military and eyewitness accounts, U.S. forces approached the house at around 2:30 a.m. and a firefight ensued. By all accounts, in addition to exchanging gunfire with someone inside the house, U.S. troops were supported by helicopter gunships, which fired on the house."

"But the accounts differ on what took place after the firefight."


"According to the U.S. account, the house collapsed because of the heavy fire. When U.S. forces searched the rubble they found one man, the al-Qaida suspect, alive. He was arrested. They also found a dead man they believed to be connected to al-Qaida, two dead women and a dead child."

"But the report filed by the Joint Coordination Center, which was based on a report filed by local police, said U.S. forces entered the house while it was still standing.


"'The American forces gathered the family members in one room and executed 11 persons, including five children, four women and two men,' the report said. 'Then they bombed the house, burned three vehicles and killed their animals.'"

"The report identified the dead by name, giving their ages. The two men killed were 22 and 28. Of the women, one was 22, another was 23, a third was 30 and the fourth was 75. Two of the children were 5 years old, two were 3, and the fifth was 6 months old, the document said."


Kind of CONTRACITING Reports here.

Smells like a US Army Cover-Up to me.

They sure would not want TWO Massacre-Scandals at once in the Press.

So let's set this Boys free - and convict the ones from Haditha.

No wonder Iraqi Officials wants an Independant Investigation.

Who wouldn't?

Thank You!



posted on Jun, 7 2006 @ 08:23 AM
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As in the middle somewhere between white and brown.


As a person that has to deal with ENDLESS CORRUPTION AT ALL LEVELS of our government in the good old US of A, in my opinion you can't just (outright) dismiss allegations of whatever...

That being said...

You can in no way, shape or form even begin to consider allegations coming out of the let's all Jihad boys... cuz they are basically just evil SOBs. And like that old joke goes... How can you tell they are lying?

Welcome to Earth!





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