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Catholics under Attack - the Secular Humanist Conspiracy

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posted on Jun, 2 2006 @ 08:56 AM
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- The Inquisition holocaust was an abomination - one that took the Church until the year 2000 to apologize for. I am Pagan and the Church has spent 2000 years demonizing my religion. Why should I take Catholicism seriously or have any respect for it?

an apology is an apology is an apology......do you need another one?
and if you are Pagan the very last thing I'd expect from you is respect for the Church...

No I dont need another one, by why did it take so long to give one in the first place? No, I never needed one to begin with, it just would have been nice. It would also be nice if the Catholic religion would quit demonizing my religion. By that I mean painting us as evil people because we're Pagan. BTW, Andy, Paganism and Catholicism have much to do with each other. Where do you think the Catholic Church got it's holy days from? Us.


Originally posted by forestlady
- Protecting the Nazis during WWII.

More BS. Typical Catholic bashing propaganda.



If you knew more, you'd know this is truth, not propaganda. Read your WWII history. (I thought everyone knew this??)

Originally posted by forestlady
- The Church has a strong anti-gay stance which I find abhorent.

....and so does God. Or didn't you know? Maybe you need to take this up with Him (see Bible).
No I dont need to take anything up with your God, I'm not a Christian. But I'm not going around complaining that some people want to make same sex legal and that it's anti-Catholic, as the original poster did.


Originally posted by forestlady
How is a law that makes same sex marriage legal, being anti-Catholic?

It's not anti-Catholic. It's anti-Christian or anti-God.
God forbids homosexuality to be "acted upon" (see Bible).
For the third time, I had Bible study everyday for 8 years. I know the Bible and what it says and I find the anti-gay stance to be extremely judgmental. Jesus said to love everyone and he ran with whores, thieves and other criminals. I would think the Church would let gays in as well. But there it is, another sign of hypocriticalness.


Originally posted by forestlady
I don't like religions that condemn other religlions or beliefs, plain and simple, and I think the Catholic Church does that.

Wrong again. So misinformed. We are probably the least condemnable of all religions. In fact, the Protestants hate us with so much angst that they have stated they think our Pope is the Anti-Christ. When it comes to Protestants...we turn the other cheek and leave them be, but they hate us.



How can I be misinformed? I WAS a Catholic for many years. The simple fact that the Church teaches that THEY are the only Church is right there a bald statement that no other religion is valid or respected. And no, Protestants don't hate Catholics, they, like me, just don't believe in the Church's hypocritical ways. My mother was a Protestant and sent me tjo Sunday school, so I learned about that religion, too.

Originally posted by forestlady
Hope it helps a little to answer your question.

Not at all. You just reinforced the belief of the original post in this thread. Thanks for keeping the anti-Catholic stereotype alive and well.
[edit on 1-6-2006 by zerotolerance]

I'm not reinforcing ANY stereotype, I don't really like stereotypes. But I am quoting fact, everything I said is true, you just choose to denigrate my knowledge instead of doing your own research. I know very well what the Church teaches, probably better than most. I took Catechism everyday for a year after school.
And hey, I didnt bright up the subject, someone else asked the original question. I answered, trying to help him understand why some people didn't like the Catholic Church. I answered honestly and as respectfully as I could. Just because you don't like the answers doesn't make it invalid or Catholic-bashing. While I don't respect the Catholic Church, I do respect anyone's spiritual beliefs. I would just like the same respect returned, thank you.

And so far, I haven't seen any postings here that make me want to change my mind, there's been some defensiveness here which seems not to be open to what I have to say, nor to respect what I have said.




posted on Jun, 2 2006 @ 03:40 PM
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Amos 3:3 (Whole Chapter)
Can two walk together, except they be agreed?

2 Corinthians 6:14 (Whole Chapter)
Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

Just because there were sinners around Jesus does not mean that Jesus let people live in thier sins. When the prostitute was about to get stoned and Jesus saved her, what did he say? GO AND SIN NO MORE.

The idea that we should let gay people into a church that teaches that homosexuality is a sin really contradicts Amos 3:3 and 2 Corinthians 6:14 does it not?



posted on Jun, 2 2006 @ 03:50 PM
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Well, getting back to the original topic... I'd say sure, a lot of Secular Humanists don't like the church, but who does like the church other than the faithful themselves?

Just because a lot of non-catholics don't like the church doesn't make it a conspiracy... no more than good-hearted people would dislike a murderer. Is it a conspiracy vs. the murderer? Nope, just karma. The church has murdered many heretics and pagans in the past and seeks to impose her morals on everyone else to this day. Given enough power, the church would once again be a threat to freedom and human life (though I do applaud their fight for the unborn).



posted on Jun, 2 2006 @ 09:39 PM
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Originally posted by Kruel
Well, getting back to the original topic... I'd say sure, a lot of Secular Humanists don't like the church, but who does like the church other than the faithful themselves?

Just because a lot of non-catholics don't like the church doesn't make it a conspiracy... no more than good-hearted people would dislike a murderer. Is it a conspiracy vs. the murderer? Nope, just karma. The church has murdered many heretics and pagans in the past and seeks to impose her morals on everyone else to this day. Given enough power, the church would once again be a threat to freedom and human life (though I do applaud their fight for the unborn).


Who likes the church? How about the homeless - we shelter a lot of them. How about the hungry? Church-based soup kitchens and food pantries serve millions of meals annually. As I've said elsewhere, the Catholic church alone is so involved in social services that the government would be hard pressed to fill the void.


The conspiracy I charged the secular world with rests in the systematic persecution of the church - the Catholic church in particular. The gut-reaction, petty quips about child molesting priests is a perfect example. Horrible? Absolutely. The church is working on it, and the reforms in place are a model that other religions and organizations are studying for adoption.

Is the church perfect? No. The inquistions absolutely occured. As a historian and a teacher, I find that trying to keep my students from projecting modern values on historical events is difficult. It is obviously a problem here as well. Slavery was rampant until the 19th century. Violence was commonplace. The world was a harsher place than the one we live in now. Pope John Paul II initiated reflection on the less savory elements of church history, has brought them out into the open, and apologized for them. Don't like it? Sorry, that the best that can be done.


As to other attacks on my posts...

Thanks to those who pointed out that a Catholic church has every right to operate within the moral precepts of the operators. A Catholic hospital in Connecticut wrote off 40 million dollars in uncollectible medical care. And that's just one of several Catholic hospitals in the state. If the state or federal government was stuck with the tab, do you believe those people would have been tended to? The Lt. Governor, Kevin Sullivan, pushed hard to withhold monies that hospitals who provide services to the indigent from Catholic hospitals because of the church's position on abortion and the 'morning after' pill. That money was part of a fuel assistance package. So, to those who attacked this point - tell you what; we'll refer the 40 million dollars worth of sick folk to you. Good luck. But, of course we won't do that. The Church is a sucker for the poor, the indigent, the needy.

How many Atheist hospitals are out there anyway????

Forestlady - no where in my post have I attacked pagans. We can debate the Sol Invictus and other connections forever without coming to a conclusive end to the debate. Augustine and other apologists have tackled these issues more ably than I could in the space available. You want to worship the Earth Mother? Go ahead. Most Catholics I know haven't used thumbscrews and iron maidens on the heathens in quite some time now....that was satire, btw.


Catholic values - and I argue from this perspective because I am a Catholic, I know that issues, and as the biggest organized religion, they are the most important target - are under systematic attack. From the mass media, to the manipulation of the gullible, to the erosion of the family, the stripping away of public displays of holiday symbols such as Advent, Christmas, the Feast of the Epiphany, and Easter...all are designed to marginalize us. The reflexive, virulent Anti-Catholic attacks in this thread and others is a clear indicator that something is amiss.


Many of the posts are fascinating and I've enjoyed a lot of them. You don't have to agree with me. I would appreciate a civil tone. I tell my students constantly that if you have to be offensive when you argue, you have no rational position to argue from. Respect breeds respect. Contempt breeds contempt.



posted on Jun, 3 2006 @ 09:33 AM
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Shantyman, I did not mean that YOU were anti-Pagan, but that your Church is, just wanted to clarify. BTW, that apology in 2000 was originally intended for Jews and other groups, but not Pagans. It wasn't until a Pagan activist wrote the Pope and brought up the point of "Hey, how about the Pagans? They were the main target of the Inquisition". Then the Pagans were included in the apology. Just a bit of information.

As to not including homosexuals and other "sinners", doesn't that go against Jesus' teaching to love everyone regardless of what they do? I figure if someone is attracted to the same sex, that's between them and their God, and is none of my business.

Off topic, but a question I have is: how can loving another human being, even the same sex, ever be wrong? Jesus told us to love one another and not judge. The anti-gay thing that so many Christian churches have is, to me, anti-Christian teachings.



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