Catholics under Attack - the Secular Humanist Conspiracy

Originally posted by Kruel

Look, if you're wanting to convert, try using logic and proof... not "the bible says this", or "God says that". It simply doesn't work. Put yourself in the shoes of an athiest for a moment and try to think like they do... THEN try to answer those questions.

I do recall Jesus saying "It is written" a couple of times in the bible, so I would respectfully disagree on your sentiment that "the bible says this" wouldn't work.

o.p. by Nygdan
The RCC is part of the ecumenical movement, and recognizes that there are 'multiple paths to salvation', and that you don't even need to beleive in jesus to be saved (ie, jews go to heaven).

Thanks for being even-handed about it.

No really, you make some good points. Jesus should be capitalized, though.

Personally, because I think conspiracy is in play wherever things don't make sense, I think the Catholic Church in America was purposely targeted 50 or 60 years ago for just the outcomes we see it experiencing today. Maybe not by secular humanists, though.

Most likely by the same people who are, and have been, pulling the strings from behind the scenes since the end of WWII. The Catholic Church in America, with its allegiance to the pope, was a threat to their consolidation of power and supremacy in the US. Just like the USSR, just like liberals, just like Castro. So they sent gay/pedophilic operatives to infiltrate and discredit the church in the US.

After the revelations of the past few years, what right thinking person wouldn't look down their nose with distaste at the church in America? I mean, that's what you're supposed to think! The moral outrage has been deliberately orchestrated!

Just like the surge of patriotism following 9/11. Part and parcel of the same package deal.

I know. I grew up in the Catholic Church in America, and it is loving, and tolerant, and forgiving. Not deviant. Somewhat arcane and remote in its approach to worship and doctrine, but out of sincerity, and fealty to Christ, our Lord and Saviour.

Not out of deviancy.

This one gave me a great laugh.

Why? Because most of the attacks on Catholics are from your fellow Christians! THEY'RE the ones who say you Catholics aren't real Christians. No issue with your Christian brothers and sisters, I suppose?

You Have Sex With Children Then Cover It Up, what don't you get? And it wasn't just in America, back at home that's all they did, and reports from England on how all the priests do is rape children!

How hard is it to get that? You rape children then protect the people and defend the people who rape children, and don't expect people to get mad? If you want people to stop hating you then stop raping children and protecting the people who rape them!

Also if your Pope is all knowing he knows every single pedophile in the church yet doesn't expose them, why does he support raping children?

I find it amazing that catholics don't understand that raping children and protecting the people who rape children is a bad thing! Do you need to take a class or see a video on it? Raping children is very bad! C'est très mauvais ! N'importe où il est c'est mauvais!

Originally posted by Icarus Rising

o.p. by Nygdan
The RCC is part of the ecumenical movement, and recognizes that there are 'multiple paths to salvation', and that you don't even need to beleive in jesus to be saved (ie, jews go to heaven).

Thanks for being even-handed about it.

No really, you make some good points. Jesus should be capitalized, though.

Personally, because I think conspiracy is in play wherever things don't make sense, I think the Catholic Church in America was purposely targeted 50 or 60 years ago for just the outcomes we see it experiencing today. Maybe not by secular humanists, though.

Most likely by the same people who are, and have been, pulling the strings from behind the scenes since the end of WWII. The Catholic Church in America, with its allegiance to the pope, was a threat to their consolidation of power and supremacy in the US. Just like the USSR, just like liberals, just like Castro. So they sent gay/pedophilic operatives to infiltrate and discredit the church in the US.

After the revelations of the past few years, what right thinking person wouldn't look down their nose with distaste at the church in America? I mean, that's what you're supposed to think! The moral outrage has been deliberately orchestrated!

Just like the surge of patriotism following 9/11. Part and parcel of the same package deal.

I know. I grew up in the Catholic Church in America, and it is loving, and tolerant, and forgiving. Not deviant. Somewhat arcane and remote in its approach to worship and doctrine, but out of sincerity, and fealty to Christ, our Lord and Saviour.

Not out of deviancy.

Or maybe, just maybe, the Catholic Church (Mother Church) is the Mother of Harlots, the Great Abomination and Whore of the earth, MYSTERY, babylon the great!

Originally posted by Icarus Rising

o.p. by Nygdan
The RCC is part of the ecumenical movement, and recognizes that there are 'multiple paths to salvation', and that you don't even need to beleive in jesus to be saved (ie, jews go to heaven).

Thanks for being even-handed about it.

No really, you make some good points. Jesus should be capitalized, though.

Personally, because I think conspiracy is in play wherever things don't make sense, I think the Catholic Church in America was purposely targeted 50 or 60 years ago for just the outcomes we see it experiencing today. Maybe not by secular humanists, though.

Most likely by the same people who are, and have been, pulling the strings from behind the scenes since the end of WWII. The Catholic Church in America, with its allegiance to the pope, was a threat to their consolidation of power and supremacy in the US. Just like the USSR, just like liberals, just like Castro. So they sent gay/pedophilic operatives to infiltrate and discredit the church in the US.

After the revelations of the past few years, what right thinking person wouldn't look down their nose with distaste at the church in America? I mean, that's what you're supposed to think! The moral outrage has been deliberately orchestrated!

Just like the surge of patriotism following 9/11. Part and parcel of the same package deal.

I know. I grew up in the Catholic Church in America, and it is loving, and tolerant, and forgiving. Not deviant. Somewhat arcane and remote in its approach to worship and doctrine, but out of sincerity, and fealty to Christ, our Lord and Saviour.

Not out of deviancy.

Or maybe, just maybe, the Catholic Church (Mother Church) is the Mother of Harlots, the Great Abomination and Whore of the earth, MYSTERY, babylon the great!

Originally posted by Icarus Rising

o.p. by Nygdan
The RCC is part of the ecumenical movement, and recognizes that there are 'multiple paths to salvation', and that you don't even need to beleive in jesus to be saved (ie, jews go to heaven).

Thanks for being even-handed about it.

No really, you make some good points. Jesus should be capitalized, though.

Personally, because I think conspiracy is in play wherever things don't make sense, I think the Catholic Church in America was purposely targeted 50 or 60 years ago for just the outcomes we see it experiencing today. Maybe not by secular humanists, though.

Most likely by the same people who are, and have been, pulling the strings from behind the scenes since the end of WWII. The Catholic Church in America, with its allegiance to the pope, was a threat to their consolidation of power and supremacy in the US. Just like the USSR, just like liberals, just like Castro. So they sent gay/pedophilic operatives to infiltrate and discredit the church in the US.

After the revelations of the past few years, what right thinking person wouldn't look down their nose with distaste at the church in America? I mean, that's what you're supposed to think! The moral outrage has been deliberately orchestrated!

Just like the surge of patriotism following 9/11. Part and parcel of the same package deal.

I know. I grew up in the Catholic Church in America, and it is loving, and tolerant, and forgiving. Not deviant. Somewhat arcane and remote in its approach to worship and doctrine, but out of sincerity, and fealty to Christ, our Lord and Saviour.

Not out of deviancy.

Or maybe, just maybe, the Catholic Church (Mother Church) is the Mother of Harlots, the Great Abomination and Whore of the earth, MYSTERY, babylon the great!

I mean come on.... isn't it a great abomination for a supposedly "christian" church to claim that ANYONE who rejects Jesus Christ can be saved? If there are many "pathways" to heaven, does that mean the pharisees that rejected Christ will go to heaven too? They believed in the God of the Old Testament just like the Muslims do, but they all rejected Jesus soOooo...?

If anything, i believe its the RCC doing the conspiring.



[edit on 1-6-2006 by Shortness]

Form your own political party. Obviously the Republicans aren't giving you enough respect. Or just take up the sword where Constantine left off and kill us secularist bastids. We obviously deserve it.

Oh no, I believe modern Israel may just be the whore of Babylon. Cyrus the Great had something up his sleeve when he sent the Israelites home after the first captivity, and even the Romans couldn't undo it with their destruction of the second Temple.

The Romans eventually fell victim to the offspring of Judaism, that's how the Catholic Church came into being in the first place. Roman tactics of governance, elimination of the competition, were used to consolidate the early Christian sects into the RCC.

So, why the triple post? Can a mod clean that up a bit so I only have to look at one post of that tripe?

Peace.

[edit on 1-6-2006 by Icarus Rising]

Forgive me if I don't cry a river for the supposed "persecution" of the RCC. The RCC leads the world historicaly as the most persecuting, intolerant, and aggressive religous force. Here are just afew of the reasons Catholics are starting to get a taste of what they so freely dished out for years.

1. As Nygdan stated, they notoriously cover up for priests involved in child sex abuse. This of course has caused alot of disgust with the RCC, even amongst many catholics. Sheltering sex offenders is certainly not going to gain much public sympathy for your cause.
2. Wealth. The Catholic church is the richest religon in the world. The opulence of the Vatican. The high lifestyle that high ranking officals and clerics live, when millions of Catholics worldwide life in subhuman conditions, battling poverty, disease, and starvation. With all the money the Catholic church has, they sure as hell could do alot more for Latin America, where they have millions of Catholics who live very hard lives. Of course, alot of this hardship was a result of Spanish Catholics invading and converting by the sword the native peoples. I find myself feeling ill when I see churches in mexico with lavish gold leaf and decorum while most Mexicans live below the poverty level. For a church that supposedly believes in charity and the virtues of poverty in some of its clergy, they sure as hell live large high up.
3. Attitudes towards women. We aren't in the middle ages, yet Catholics still take a dim view towards women in any role above that of a baby making broodmare and indoctrinator of kids.
4. Inconsitancy of doctrine. Like purgatory, which was made up by a pope to string the faithful up for more money. Oh yeah, and popes in the past taking huge lumps of cash for indulgences. Where the hell does this doctrine of indulgence come from anyway?
5. Power of the Pope. A guy who is elected by a bunch of other fellow Catholics, often with political or personal motivations, is believed by millions to be god's personal representitve on earth. Like jesus Christ incarnate. So this guy who is elected by a non elected body of cardinals has the power to condemn to hell, grant forgiveness of sins, change church doctrine, and all sorts of other things, by gods authority? What about when the pope screws up. Since god supposedly selected him, does that mean god screwed up too?

I find far more people in this world have been presecuted more heavily by the Catholics than any sort of catholics being persecuted. hell, it aint even real persecution. Catholics are still allowed to practice their religon, hold public office, ect. But now adays, the Chruch doesn't hold the power it used to, and thus, people are now free to point out problems, voice dissent, and show disgust towards what many consider to be a corrupted religous organization that is failing its flock.

Oh and let me also mention how the church expects me to pay $650 bucks for an annulment... even though it was my bi-polar ex wife who left ME and is now banging some other guy. So my options are these: A - cough up the cash, B - live single the rest of my life, or C - live in sin and burn in hell forever if I decide to date/live with someone else.

Good thing I only married in the church for the family. Guess I'll go with C and burn in hell foever.

Way to go RCC! Way to kick em while their down. Way to exploit those who have gone to church and donated money so that the lawsuits caused by pervert priests can be paid.

Sorry, do I seem bitter? It's because I am.

[edit on 6/1/2006 by Kruel]

i am not anti catholic, but i would say that they may have to accept the fact that their empire will not last. That doesn't mean it will be extinguished but they may have to move aside and let some newer ideas through that may or may not change the world for the better, either the "rapture" will take place and rcc will be like "i told you so you satanic bastards" or it won't and if the RCC can try not to start a holy crusade against whatever takes the new religious spotlight on this planet maybe we can chill out and relax, you know let catholics be catholics and let pagans be pagans. Accept change it happens

Haven't read the whole thread yet, doubt I will after seeing this first little whiney baby nonsense.

attempted to punish Catholic hospitals because they had moral objections to performing abortions or precribing the 'morning after' pill.

GOOD! Honestly, damn your religion if it's going to get in the way of needed health care. Not everyone who goes to a catholic/christianized hostpital are religous. Don't go into god damn health care if you are not going to PROVIDE HEALTHCARE.

Same-sex civil unions are legal in CT - and now, the Gay and Lesbian groups are pushing for a constitutional mandate for marriage. They also are fomenting against Catholic adoption agencies that require adoptive parents to be a man and woman couple.

Boo freaking hoo. God forbid a woman/woman or man/man would want to enjoy the pleasure's of raising a child together. Religous people seem to be the only one's who have problems with gays. You people are so god damned intolerant. THEY ARE NORMAL PEOPLE.

Last year saw an unsettling movement to take away one of the most sacred of Christian holidays. Target, WalMart, and a slew of other retailers have eschewed 'Merry Christmas' for 'Happy Holidays'. Why? Well, Christmas has that pesky Christ connotation. How dare those pesky Christians try to cram their outdated and ridiculous presumptions on this holiday? Mangers and other religious-based displays - or at least Christian ones - are tabu in public areas. Not to offend or criticize my Jewish friends, but there was a community in Florida that had a Hanakah display but a manger was forbidden. Kwanzaa displays are all the rage, but a cross? A creche? Christmas - oops, Holiday trees - good. An Advent wreath? How dare those Christians impose their beliefs on the Holidays? Jeez - you would think that its all about them!

More like how dare those christians whine like little children when happy holidays is recognizing ALL OTHER RELIGOUS HOLIDAYS that fall around the same date. Jesus christ, god forbid we be tolerant of OTHER religions. Intolerant whiney little babies.

Why the conspiracy? Money. Control. Religious people - especially the more than a billion Roman Catholics - have loyalties that are divided. We are influenced by the Pope, and that's something that Madison Ave, Hollywood, and the TV industry cannot abide. Secularists are conditioned to revile Catholics - isolate your enemy, break them down, breed them out.

Everything you posted here show's NOTHING of a conspiracy against catholics/christians. All you've shown is their capacity for crying like babies when it isn't me me me and there capacity for intolerance.

Where's the conspiracy?! This thread should be moved to an entirely new forum entitled: Whiney religous cry babies. Or atleast sent to BTS.

By the way, to make a couple points,

I don't have a problem with Catholic people as a whole. I don't think the average Catholic is greedy or corrupt. I know alot of Catholics are genuinely devout and take their spirituality seriously. It is the church hierarchy and dogma I have the problem with. I feel it exploits the faith of its flock in many terrible ways, and changes its doctrine and dogma so often and invidvidual catholics struggle to keep up with all the new papal decrees and laws and such. I feel that many individual Catholics are victims of the corruption from the top.

I also have no problem with people who are spiritual. Many people seek different paths to try and understand the divine. This is good, and people who beieve in higher powers are not sheep per se, nor are they ignorant. It is when the physical body of the spiritual organization tries to control and direct that belief is when it becomes corrupt.

I also do not see any problem with Catholic adoption agencies denying adoption to gay couples. This is well within their rights. Since Catholic adoption agencies are run by the church, they have a right to choose prospective parents by religous standards. Catholics, like numerous other religons, view homosexuality as immoral and unhealthy. This is their right. Gay couples do not have to use Catholic adoption agencies. They can go to others. Gays do not have the right to expect services from a group that takes a dim view of their lifestyle, when there are numerous other secular agencies that can accomidate. Catholics do have the right to their beliefs, and have the right not to tolerate homosexuality in its org and ranks, and have a right to deny services to those who they believe live wickedly.

Originally posted by Yumi
You Have Sex With Children Then Cover It Up, what don't you get? And it wasn't just in America, back at home that's all they did, and reports from England on how all the priests do is rape children!

How hard is it to get that? You rape children then protect the people and defend the people who rape children, and don't expect people to get mad? If you want people to stop hating you then stop raping children and protecting the people who rape them!

Also if your Pope is all knowing he knows every single pedophile in the church yet doesn't expose them, why does he support raping children?

I find it amazing that catholics don't understand that raping children and protecting the people who rape children is a bad thing! Do you need to take a class or see a video on it? Raping children is very bad! C'est très mauvais ! N'importe où il est c'est mauvais!

what is the church supposed to do. males that became priests, maninly because they were running away from there sexual problems, i.e were either paedos or gay. thats just the way it is. everyone has a sexuallaity, but priests are meant to suppress it, but with the catholic church being a target, the people who target catholic priests know, that everyone has a sexuallaity but it is just suppressed.
so what is the church going to do, are they going to stop all the males coming priests, because of there problems, of course not. they should be taught in the priest schools how to deal with there sexuallaity, because it is a hard thing to suppress all your life.

Originally posted by andy1033
just what percentage of catholic priests became priests to get away from the sexual problems is unknown, but you can be sure it is a high percentage.

Why 'can we be sure'?? Less than 1% of priests have been involved in
'the scandal'. So how can we be SURE that it's a high percentage when
such a small percentage of them are guilty of child molestation?
Post some facts to back that up please. If it's just your opinion
then please state that.

another problem for catholics is vatican2, which has wiped
away so much of the foundations of the faith.

Ohhhhhhhh.... you are soooooo right. It didn't wipe away the truth,
but it sure blanketed the truth in layer upon layer of protestantism and
secular humanism. You betchya.

Originally posted by Kruel
And why is the DaVinci Code such a big deal?

For the sake of this discussion .. let's pretend that you and your father
are very close. You love each other. You spend quality and quantity
time together. He knows you and you know him. He has made it his
life's work to raise you, take care of you, and he works to support you
and make you happy. Your father adores you and you adore him.
YOU are his mission in life.

Then someone in Hollywood comes along and decides to make a movie
about the life you and your father have together. Instead of portraying
your father as the loving man that he is, they make him a lustful drunk.
Instead of a man who cares deeply about you, they portray him running
off and leaving you at home alone.

Then they sell tickets to this movie. People pay to see the lies against
your father. His reputation changes from a loving good father to a letch.

Wouldn't you be hurt for him?
Wouldn't people suffer because His reputation is now tarnished?

The DaVinci Code is the same thing for many Christians. They know God
to be someone very different than is portrayed in the movie. They understand
Christ's mission, which is very clearly spelled out in scripture, and that the
movie butchers. The Christ in the movie isn't the Christ of scripture. It's lies
which people believe. This is hurtful. Christians hurt FOR GOD and for the
world because of this.

And yes, people actually believe the DaVinci Code is real, even though the
author has clearly stated that it is FICTION. Just yesterday I had a Catholic
friend come up to me and say that she just finished the book and it's making
her think about everything. She says she now questions Christ's real mission.
(score - one more soul off track thanks to DaVinci Code).

THAT's the big deal.

Originally posted by Prot0n
Not everyone who goes to a catholic/christianized hostpital are religous. Don't go into god damn health care if you are not going to PROVIDE HEALTHCARE.

Then they should go to a SECULAR hospital. Catholic hospitals are CATHOLIC.
Crucifixs on the wall; prayers of the intercom system; religious paintings; the works. It is a CATHOLIC environment and I find it helpful and comforting when
I'm in the hospital. I know that the doctors are providing healthcare .. not
murdering unborn childrenThat's why I choose the local Catholic hospital.

If you want certain services that the Catholic hospital doesn't provide, then
go to the secular one. Leave the Catholic hospital alone. It provides a
valuable service to those of us who want a Catholic religious environment
while obtaining health care.

There are plenty of secular hospitals .. go to one of them if you want
something else.

Originally posted by Yumi
all the priests do is rape children!

Less than 1% of the priests have been involved in the sex abuse scandal.
So how exactly does that equate to 'all the priests' raping children?

Originally posted by zerotolerance

Originally posted by forestlady
- First of all, I hate the idea that women cannot be priests and that they are held in a lesser light than men.

The whole concept of priests was based on the apostles and their mission...they were all men.

Originally posted by forestlady
Do you have any idea how many good Catholic women have died because of having too many children?

Not a clue. Back this up with stats. I don't believe it at all.

Your belief is not required to make it true. It is common knowledge that when a woman has 11 children, all in a row, that she will not be healthy, it's too much of a drain on her system.

Originally posted by forestlady
- I don't believe the Pope is infallible. He's a human being, capable of error just like the rest of us.

We don't believe the Pope is infallible, we believe the Mother Church is.

Wrong, plain and simple. When I was going to Catechism classes (on top of attending Catholic school for 8 years with religious instruction everyday), I was taught that the POPE IS INFALLIBLE. It's right there in the Catechism of the 60's. I'm assuming you're Catholic, and in that case, don't you know what your own Church preaches???? Every other Catholic I know knows this.

Originally posted by forestlady
- I am disgusted by the Church's position on child molesting. This goes back a very long way and has never been addressed by the Church's top echelon, or most other Church reps. Instead, they blame the homosexuals, which is ridiculous, they are both 2 separate things.

Sexual molestation is a problem everywhere (see Africa and it's current military). Yes, homosexuality and pedophila are 2 entirely different things. The majority of Catholic bashers lump these 2 together to fit their agenda.

You really don't know much about the Catholic faith it seems to me. It isnt "Catholic bashers" that lump these 2 together, it is the Church itself. Read the statements that the Pope has given out; he clearly equates the 2 to be one and the same thing. Besides, this is a CHURCH we're talkign about, not a military or laymen. They are supposed to protect the children, for crying out loud.