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Embedded CNN reporter doubts Haditha charges…

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posted on May, 31 2006 @ 02:43 PM
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Originally posted by dgtempe
This must be a lie also. I'm telling you, every newsource is wrong and they are all anti military apparently:

www.breitbart.com...




I was driving my car at full speed because I did not see any sign or warning from the Americans. It was not until they shot the two bullets that killed my sister and cousin that I stopped," he said. "God take revenge on the Americans and those who brought them here. They have no regard for our lives."

He said doctors tried but failed to save the baby after his sister was brought to the hospital.

The shooting deaths occurred in the wake of an investigation into allegations that U.S. Marines killed unarmed civilians in the western city of Haditha.






Two hits with two bullets. Pretty good shooting, considering the target was a speeding car. There is something wrong with this story here. I'm not saying that the soldiers mentioned in these incidents are innocent, I am also not saying that they are guilty. Hell they have already been tried and convicted by the media and some of the posters here, none of whom have the slightest idea of what they are talking about. I'm in favor of an OPEN investigation of both incidents and if it is found that there is enough information to file charges then there should be a fair trial and if found guilty the proper punishment should be awarded. What I don't want to see is these soldiers tried and convicted just to appease the Iraqi government, media and the US Military.

I am curious as to how many people posting on this subject have ever been under fire? Things happen fast and the correct descisions are not always made. Give that a little thought.




posted on May, 31 2006 @ 02:45 PM
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I think is possible they did murder these people.

But I am disgusted at all the people who assume its true as well. And I could have written a list of the people who would assume thier guilt before they even posted, thats how predictable some people on these boards are.

The bottom line is there is enough evidence on BOTH sides to create doubt in the others perspective.

And anybody who denies for a second that the insurgents are capable of a set up suffers from absolute ignorance.

Its the insurgets masterfull use of human civilian shields and anti coalition prpaganda that makes me assume those Marines are innocent.

I know just two things:
#1 Insurgents think nothing of killing anybody, especially women and kids

#2 I am an American male not much older than many of those marines and I have grown in the same culture they have, and we value life 1000 times more than those insurgents do.

And all I need to know are those two things to presume those guys are innocent.



posted on May, 31 2006 @ 02:53 PM
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Originally posted by JIMC5499






I am curious as to how many people posting on this subject have ever been under fire? Things happen fast and the correct descisions are not always made. Give that a little thought.
I am a woman and was never under fire. I just have common horse sense.

Why not shoot at the tires?
Then there's this:




Khalid Nisaif Jassim, the pregnant woman's brother, said American forces had blocked off the side road only two weeks ago and news about the observation post had been slow to filter out to rural areas.

He said the killings, like those in Haditha, were examples of random killings faced by Iraqis every day.



Source



posted on May, 31 2006 @ 03:02 PM
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Originally posted by Souljah
Which "Friends" would that be?



The ones you keep supporting all the time. Not once have I ever heard you say anything that would condemn their actions (Insurgents that is) according to you the only ones that ever do anything are americans and British so that only leaves the insurgents DUH




Seriously tho - how many more Witnesess do you need?



Well if those are the only witnesses they have the prosecution is in for a very hard time proving they did it.

Right now I am sure the attorneys are lining up for each of the accused and they all will want to have the bodies exhumed to see if there are in fact 7 bullets in one head. They will also want bullets from the scene so tests can be run that will confirm that those guns of the accused actually fired the bullets.

You can also be rest assured that most of them will hire civilian lawyers to make sure they get a fair trial and those attorneys will demand that the accused be allowed to face their accuser. Each attorney will then question each of those two children on the stand with questions like is that man in court? Answer will be yes or no, if yes they will ask them to point out which one it was, if the child cannot identify anyone that, is reasonable doubt number one. If the kid points to a man his gun better match the bullets in the body or again you have reasonable doubt.

Then you have the girls claim that they threw the bomb and they are going to know if they threw a bomb why are you alive or where were you standing something along those lines the children are going to have to answer those questions over and over and each time if they slip up there again their credibility goes into question.

When they get to the body of the little boy it will start all over. Does the body have signs of be beaten with a gun or if it was foot (I forget what it was) but either way there better be signs of some form of trauma on the body, if not they have reasonable doubt again.

Then of course you have the question of how did the girl know the bomb was going to go off? She is going to have a hard time getting out of that one since they have her on tape stating she knew it was going off.

Those are just the questions that I can think of that would raise reasonable doubt, but I assume the lawyers will think of a lot more.

The burden of proof is on the prosecution and as I see it they are going to have a real hard time proving their case unless of course there is other evidence out there that we are not aware of.



posted on May, 31 2006 @ 03:09 PM
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Originally posted by dgtempe
I am a woman and was never under fire. I just have common horse sense.

Why not shoot at the tires?


Ever see how far and how fast a car can go with four flat tires? If you are trying to stop a car you shoot the windshield and try to hit the occupants of the car. Don't be fooled by what you see in the movies. I can't figure out why the driver didn't stop. I for one do not believe that they shot into that car without trying to warn the driver. There is a procedure to follow when you are trying to get a car to stop. Firing at the car is pretty far down the list. If they didn't follow the procedure then they were derelict in their duty at a minimum and deserve punishment. If they did follow the procedure then this is a sad tragedy.

I am curious about one thing though. I wonder of the car had the driver on the right like they do in England or on the left like the US. The guard might have thought he was shooting at the driver when he was actually shooting at the passenger.



posted on May, 31 2006 @ 03:12 PM
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Originally posted by shots
The ones you keep supporting all the time. Not once have I ever heard you say anything that would condemn their actions (Insurgents that is) according to you the only ones that ever do anything are americans and British so that only leaves the insurgents DUH

I never saw you Condemn US troops.

And even in this Case, where we have several witnesess - Iraqi civilans and US military - you are despereatly trying to hang to straws.

When everything points to most obvious, you are still sticking your head in the sand, and supporting this CNN reporter who, was not Even There!




posted on May, 31 2006 @ 03:45 PM
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Originally posted by Souljah
I never saw you Condemn US troops.


That is because of your blinders, not my fault.


Originally posted by Souljah
And even in this Case, where we have several witnesess - Iraqi civilans and US military - you are despereatly trying to hang to straws.

When everything points to most obvious, you are still sticking your head in the sand, and supporting this CNN reporter who, was not Even There!



No I am not hanging on straws. Just what part of unless there is other evidence that we are not aware of do you not understand?

As for the reporter all I said was she sounded creditible to me so stop twisting what I said.

I then viewed the video and what the kids stated on the video raised doubt in my mind.

This whole topic is the biggest thing on our radio taqlk shows today and lawyers have called in with their opinions as well as normal citizens and most if not all have the very same conerns that I have and agree with most of what I have said.

Now for the several witnesses there again was a big concern.

Why was it that only the kids would answer the questions by the reporter was raised over and over and the one conclusion by most was because they did not see anything and many concluded the kids were used simply because it would have been very easy to convince them to lie in front of camera unlike an adult who would know better.



posted on May, 31 2006 @ 04:14 PM
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The Pentagon's own preliminary inquiry has, as I just pointed out in another thread, just arrived at the conclusion that the killings in Haditha were unprovoked executions of noncombatants. I suppose the Pentagon is full of anti-military America-hating pinkos too?

And it turns out the killings in Haditha might never have come to light, had one of the victims not been the new Iraqi ambassador's cousin. Oops.



posted on May, 31 2006 @ 05:05 PM
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End of story.

I did hear the ambassador say his cousin was killed- a youth who minded his own business, went to school and had big plans for his future.



posted on May, 31 2006 @ 05:14 PM
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Originally posted by skippytjc
They didnt do it.


Even if they did come under small-arms fire it doesn't change the fact that they went into the homes afterward and slaughtered the Iraqi civilians. They did it.



posted on May, 31 2006 @ 05:58 PM
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Personally I wanted to believe that it was a setup staged by the insurgents at first.
In fact I think I put forth that theory on this very board at one point.

Since then it's become obvious that it wasn't...

Having known quite a few Marines, including several in my family, I really didn't want to believe anyone in the Corps would be capable of such a thing as executing a six year old girl by putting a rifle round through her head point blank. Well, there's a sucker born every minute I guess.

[edit on 5/31/06 by xmotex]



posted on May, 31 2006 @ 06:48 PM
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Whhooooo Doagieesss.... Just came in here for a little read and it looks like we got some folks tryin' like Hell to make a lynch mob.

Just a few quick thoughts...

Regardless, Souljah, of your personal feelings, which appear to be not too well thought out in this instance, we still have due process. Even in the military.
You seem to delight in any violence that may, or may not have happened due to Americans, yet you say little about the IEDs and other methods that their own people are using to kill the women and children... What's up with that, huh?

Guerilla Field Marshal, or Gorilla Field Marshal? Gotsta use your head for something beside a really bad propaganda machine if you ever, reallllly, want to be taken seriously.

dgtempe... Lots of times I agree with you, and have, once or twice, been here in your support... This time however, you are a little wrong, in my opinion. Your comment about shooting out the tires reminds me of a little set-to that we had on the forums last year about the right to bear arms, and the use of them by police. One, very sincere, yet slightly deluded, individual demanded that the cops shot the weapons out of the bad guys hands.

And ... Having been someone who has been under fire, and returned fire... Never saw a head that was normal, and human, that would sustain the energy created by seven, count them, seven bullets.

In closing... They may be very guilty, but I have a problem with anyone, even folks I respect, jumping in and declaring an outcome before all the facts are in.



posted on May, 31 2006 @ 07:02 PM
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I am tired of all the fake "Support the Troops" people out there.

Let some soldiers make a mistake, no matter how minor, or without knowing the whole story, and they are ready to execute them.

The sad thing about it is, these are the same people who turn a blind eye to Saddams mass graves.

Forgive Saddam and criminalize the troops. You people make me sick.



posted on May, 31 2006 @ 07:45 PM
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The reporter was not there, so I can not take her word for it. Let the investigation go on, and the truth will come out. It seems to me people have set in there mind if this is all true or not. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't.



posted on May, 31 2006 @ 10:24 PM
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Politics aside, bring our boys home. All of Iraq isn't worth the life of one good Marine. We have bigger fights brewing in the far east. If these people can't find a Washington to unite and lead them to freedom, hell with them. Washington wasn't French or Hessian, he was an American.

War is indescribable. All you have in the end are those firing in the same direction as you and eventually it wears you down, you are eternally united because of it. Everything becomes blurry. You become angry and tired. Especially when those you are sent to protect couldn't care less if one of yours dies in a cowardly attack.

We never should have went in and we need to get out.

European empiracle oppression and Islam has hindered evolution in the middle east. All they know is war and hate. We won't fix that, only they and evolution will. Throw in a massive neolib propaganda machine and there's no winning.

These are the cold hard facts. Bush was wrong, these people do not seek democracy or freedom. They are stuck in the middle ages. Leave them there and let them evolve out.

Bring them home and let them go with light sentences even if they are guilty, which I don't believe they are by the way. We let child rapists go because they are too short or they won't get the therapy a neo lib judge thinks they should get, but you'll hang what is probably a good bunch of kids pushed to extremes in a war zone? Far worse has been committed by men pushed to the limit in war.

If not for Bush's ideologies, they never would be there and probably would have retired proud gunnery sargents or e-8s or e-9s fighting Americas battles with exempliary service building homes for AIDs victims in Africa or something, or whatever. Believe it or not the US military does a great deal of a lot of humanitarian missions also.

Bring them home and put them on our borders and not everyone elses.



posted on May, 31 2006 @ 10:46 PM
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Wait, this person was not there but claims they know what happened? How? And even worse is the people like Skippy saying that since this reporter who wasn't there said it was a lie then your Pentagon, the Civillian WItnesses, and the military are liars.

WHy is it hard to imagine soilders killing civillians? Isn't that why they made up the term collatoral damage? So you could kill civillians and not get in trouble for it?

Or does your media have special satellites so they can see from outer space like the very neat Google Earth program? I swear I can find my home in France with it the details are so good.



posted on May, 31 2006 @ 10:53 PM
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Let some soldiers make a mistake, no matter how minor


Slaughtering entire families in their homes, including small children, is a "minor mistake"?!?


Let's get this clear - this investigation is not into whether these Marines accidentally shot up a house during combat, killing some civilians in the crossfire. The accusation is that they went through the area, going into houses, and shooting entire families execution style. The people who originally reported this are not only the local civilian survivors, including a 12 year old girl who only survived because she hid under a bed while the rest of her family was murdered, but the other Marines that came along later and collected the bodies, who noted that there was no evidence of the kind of firefight the first group claimed happened, and reported it to their superiors.

And yes, I think the appropriate penalty for soldiers who go around executing helpless noncombatants, including an old man, a bunch of women, some teenagers and a bunch of little children, ought to be death. And I am fairly certain that this is also the penalty mandated by the UCMJ.

To it's credit, the military is investigating the matter aggressively, and I think we'll see these guys charged with murder soon. Of the people I've talked to, it's the former Marines who seem the most shocked, and the most determined that if found guilty, these guys ought to be punished as harshly as possible. They see what these guys did as an offense to the honor of the uniform they wore proudly. Thankfully most of the people in the US military, unlike the right wing armchair warriors who claim to speak in their name, still seem to have a sense of decency and justice.

I wanted to believe this was a setup at first too.
But as more evidence begins to surface, it seems increasingly unlikely.

[edit on 5/31/06 by xmotex]



posted on May, 31 2006 @ 11:00 PM
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Originally posted by Yumi


Or does your media have special satellites so they can see from outer space like the very neat Google Earth program? I swear I can find my home in France with it the details are so good.


Watch the interview of the girl. Don't you think her credibility would be trashed in 5 min by a good defense lawyer in a U.S. courtroom using her own testimony against her? Even with a 5.56mm there won't be any head left too shoot 7 times after 2-3 shots. Don't believe me? I have pics so I can post if you'd like. So you take that, add it to the other inconsistancies. Should there be an investigation, sure, and no I don't trust the U.S. gov't to be honest, they screwed the Abu Gahrab guys but no CIA folks, even though it was CIA ran, come on, the militarys expendible duh.

If this went down the exact way the girl describes, it was ORDERED, let me say that again ORDERED. And you know what that would mean, that the enlisted guys would not be liable for what happened, their commander would be. Why do you suppose, in all these incidents, it's the little guy getting hanged, and not the big fish. My lai was also ordered by people much highger than a captain , by why would y'all care, you got your "justice" right?



posted on May, 31 2006 @ 11:09 PM
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According to one Marine who had to clean up afterward, there wasn't much left of the head of the girl in question. He described how he picked up the body and her brains poured out all over his boots. It's not just the little girl in the video claiming this massacre happened, but apparently large numbers of civilians in the area, and most tellingly the other Marines that came upon the scene afterward.

That one litle girl whose family was just slaughtered by insurgents would lie about it afterward to make the Marines look bad is preposterous enough. That all the other residents in the area would lie about it too is even sillier. That other Marines who saw the aftermath would also participate in the frame-up is totally absurd.



posted on May, 31 2006 @ 11:26 PM
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So, marines wouldn't be involved in a frame up of their own?

But marines will grease civilians for craps and giggles?

But marines will shoot two women one pregnant for fun?

But, the Military Industrial Complex, PNAC and BushCo would attack the U.S. people?

LMAO The logic on this site is pure comedy, reminds me of my sig.

The fact that there were still brains, PROVES there wasn't 7 shots fired, jesus there'd just be a stump of what was left of the neck. Just the muzzle blast from a weapon within 1 foot of a brain will blow it apart, but after 7 shots brain matter was still present?

I'm not saying it was a frame up, but why the hell do you trust the US gov't that much to claim they wouldn't do it? Why not? It'd be the least of their evil deeds. And they've done it before. What I did say is if they did what witnesses claim then they were ORDERED, and the military's brass main concern is to save their own behind, so thinking that we'll ever get the real truth on this matter is very, very unrealistic.



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