Helicopter X-2 to reach 250 mph!!!, page 2
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reply posted on 31-5-2006 @ 09:45 AM by Desert Dawg

I'd be curious about how they are going to handle the blade loads. As the speed on a helicopter increases you wind up with an effect that tends to roll the aircraft along it's long axis. What happens here is as the rotor blade advances in the same direction as the aircraft is travelling it generates lift from both the velocity of the blade's rotation, as well as the speed of the aircraft, the blade advance cycle. When the blade crosses the long axis of the aircraft it starts the blade retreat cycle. The blade during the retreat cycle doesn't generate as much lift because the aircraft's velocity is subtracted from the blade's velocity, which decreases the blade's lift. At normal speeds this isn't much of an issue, but at higher speeds it could be a problem. The tandem rotor might be a solution for this if they can keep the blade paths of each rotor seperate.



The advancing blade and the retreating blade are canted - or tilted - along the blade chord at differing angles, one blade compared to the other.

Since the advancing blade has more lift due to an effectively increased airspeed it has less cant therefore less lift.

The opposite is true with the retreating blade. It has more cant which generates more lift.

These differing blade angles balance out making for an equal amount of lift transversely speaking.

When Mach 1 levels are attained at the blade tip, problems begin with loss of lift on the advancing blade and I understand vibrational harmonic problems can come into play in such a scenario.

The differences in blade angle also create forward momentum.
The higher the airspeed, the less the difference is, but there's always a difference when the heli is moving through the air.
Blade angles are the same when the heli is hovering in calm conditions.


reply posted on 1-6-2006 @ 05:28 AM by ch1466
Actually, last time I looked at Guiness, the Mi-24 was the fastest _service_ (unmodified) helicopter in use with a top speed around 200 knots. Of course you don't dare maneuver it there because the margins on boom slap are so tight you don't dare.

More importantly, I recall a more or less vanilla S-76 did a 500km course at an average 187 knots in cruise which is the same as saying an F-22 can sustain Mach 1.5 longer than a MiG-24 can sprint out to 2.65 or so.

Indeed, many civillian helos beat their military counterparts by virtue of much more capable rotor systems and MUCH MUCH cleaner (and lighter) system design. In the early 1980's the USAr used both MD-500 and H-76 (militarized Spirit) to flat out embarass both the Apache and Snake during 'air to air training' exercises.

That said, the X-2 looks like nothing more or less than the XH-59 ABC with a fantail as opposed to a pair of turbojets and so, IMO, if you don't disqualify the X-2 as a compound, the 289 knot capability of it's grandpappy still makes Sikorsky the owner of the fastest chopper in the world.

Followed by Lunchmeat with their 260 knot XH-51 Little Chief.

Followed by Lunchmeat again with the 220 knot AH-56 (again, as a production ready _service_ helo).

The big problem with RBS or Retreating Blade Stall is that, even if you don't try to use collective pitch changes to retain lift on the retreating side, the loss of lift causes the aft moving blade to droop and any subsequent loading change makes it start to buzz which eventually makes the blade itself give up, separates the blade from the hub or cuts the boom. Rigid Rotor systems change this by virtue of effectively tying the _disk_ plane to the advancing blade position with a stiff hubmount for all blades.

This means that the retreating rotor can neither droop on it's own nor rub at the mast and keeps everybody toes the same blade line regardless of inertial/lift forces.

It is also why the Hokum is a joke rather than some kind of super-chopper because it's rotor system is not rigid and so if you try and load the aircraft in a particularly turn direction at speed, you will either mesh the disks or again start separating blades.

THE BIG QUESTION then becomes "Does it matter?". Because if you have a competent ASE suite you can fly at 1G and 3-5,000ft, almost entirely outside the trashfire envelope while defeating MANPADS and AHM with relative (MAWS time to see it coming) ease. Even as you can SEE to ranges heretofore undreamt of by beanie prop jocks (40-60km, easy). With these kinds of capabilities, the armed military helicopter becomes less a direct combat (a yankin' and a bankin') fires delivery platform than one which is designed to function as an econobus for sensor systems and standoff muntions. Most of which can be dropfired.

This in turn potentially reopens up the idea of a 'cabin cruiser' system which can trade what is actually rather pathetic agility anyway (+3/-1.5G for the Apache) for very long sensor coverage and very fast (for a choppper) refresh of wide scouting=organic ISR sanitization areas. If all your sensors are side/downlooking, there is no reason to close with a target and so the frontal target area minimization and all round view justification of a conventional gunship is also gone.

If you are carrying no weapons wings or fixed gear or cannon or optical systems (because a big cabin means internal stowage on a wider gear track with shorter = more upright wheelbase), the other justification for the tandem seated gunship configuration: reduced frontal drag (Snake vs. Hog) is also removed.

And so 'suddenly', with no requirement for agility or for external weapons loads or for visibility OVER a target the rotor system complexity of a coax is also removed and you can go with a simple, single, hingeless/rigid main rotor system that offloads to wings or a lifting body shape in principle cruise flight while maintaining an internal volume sufficient to be a useful liason/utility platform on the civil market.

This in turn being the principle problem I have with the X-2-

www.defenseindustrydaily.com...

As proposed. Particularly since, if I am operating a standoff sensor collection suite (including monitoring of previously emplaced UGS on a detex-flyby basis) while acting as a drone controller for MOUT overhead apertures, I can sit the cabin like any ASW operator and 'feel no pain' of up-front exposure.

Which means the frontend can be shorter and single-pilot optimized (SHADOW) to further assist in configuration, weight and streamlining issues.

We are now at the point where row-boat/shoot-ducks division of labor no longer makes for a viable workload reduction effort in a direct attack platform of as limited a performance margin as the conventional Helo. Anaconda showed this when we had 4 AH-64 shot up within the first 30 minutes and supporting air basically ceased to exist. Falujah repeated the lesson when we had something like 24 more Indians torn to pieces and one downed by a bloody farmer and his stinkin' Carcano boltaction. We should not NEED a third.

The question then becomes whether we are willing to kick the Army in the nuts to show them that SPO _works_ (fully automated terrain avoidance and approach to hover plus 360` night/synthetic vision systems) in a way that lets us retain a useful civil market advantage (low drag and high performance in a 6-8 passenger cabin with 250nm range or 500nm with 4 passengers and aux tanks) once they finally get a Kiowa/Comanche/Longranger RAH-rah replacement for their precious armed scout role.


KPl.


reply posted on 28-8-2008 @ 07:23 PM by _Del_




A picture of the first flight from Sikorsky and a few concepts.

Thought they were worth sharing.



reply posted on 30-8-2008 @ 05:10 PM by PopeyeFAFL
I read this somewhere:

On the military side Sikorsky envisions an X2-sized armed helicopter that could fly escort for the Bell Boeing V22 Osprey ...


www.flyafrica.info...

Could you imagine this if it ever happens, Sikorsky competitor of Bell Helicopter having to ensure safety for the V-22 because it cannot do it by itself?

If Sikorsky pull this concept thru and apply it to it's line of helicopter, several customers will go for the added speed (EMS operation. taxi to Oil Rig, etc.) other manufacturers will not be able to cope (except perhaps Bell with the tilt rotor BA609 (same speed range).
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