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posted on Oct, 25 2003 @ 02:01 AM
Skadi, Nerdling, et al:

Since WHEN do we afford Hostile Combatant, NON-CITIZEN POWs our legal system? NORMALLY they are shot on the battlefield, this guy wasn't ONLY because we think he has value (which has been proven CORRECT) as a snitch.

Let's reveiw...

We have a POW who was spared ONLY for the potential value of the intel he has in his head that WE WANT.

He wasn't SHOT DEAD on the battlefield because we think we can KILL MORE of his teammates by "picking his brain".


Now YOU two think we should put him up at Club Fed and give him a FAIR TRIAL?!?!?!?!?! This is NOT an American citizen who is suspected of grand theft auto, this is an ENEMY COMBATANT in WAR, just the EXACT SAME as a Nazi in WWII or a Viet Kong in Viet Nam...

I don't recall hearing about anybody DEMANDING that we bring Hitler to the US for a fair trial before we shoot him, prior to his comitting suicide in his bunker...

I don't have a CLUE why you two would think this peice of shyte deserves a trial unless it's a complete MISUNDERSTANDING of the law and the rule of WAR...

Whatever the case is for you indevidually you REALLY need to GIVE UP the "fair trial" bit, it's IRRELEVANT.


posted on Oct, 25 2003 @ 08:15 AM
And you, springer, need to take your geritol and have the nurse come change your depends, old boy. This is the 21st century. The examples you quote arer from ancient history. But of course, you also forget about the geneva conventions as well.
First off, we have not declared war on any country, we are not in a state of offical war, thus, why do we have prisoners of war? Sorry, terrorism isnt an entity. How do we contact the terrorism embassy and let them know we have thier POWs?
Second, for war crimes, the Geneva conventions require the same basic premise: fair trials. If we are going to convict people for terrorism, we must give them a fair trial to convict them. And yes, the Nazis were PUT ON TRIAL before we executed them.
And, since senility is getting the best of you and youre having difficulty remebering, HITLER KILLED HIMSELF. DUH!!!!!!! We wamted to capture him ALIVE, but little adolf beat us to the punch line.

Anyway, yes, they do, by law, deserve a fair trial, before you beat and torture them. After they have recieved thier fair trial, and have been found guilty, then you can beat them to a pulp, I care not. But not until they have been convicted. Theres your egneva convetions. If you dont like them, demand we pull out of them.

posted on Oct, 25 2003 @ 08:37 AM
I have said this before but I'll repeat.
The geneva conventions DO NOT APPLY to Al Queda. They DO apply to Iraqi military. There is a huge difference.

A. Prisoners of war, in the sense of the present Convention, are persons belonging to one of the following categories, who have fallen into the power of the enemy:

1. Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict as well as members of militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces.

2. Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following conditions:

(a) That of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;

(b) That of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;

(c) That of carrying arms openly;

(d) That of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.

Enemy combatants. Or, as I like to say, Scum of the earth.

posted on Oct, 25 2003 @ 08:44 AM

Originally posted by ROGUE
A common theif and a TERRORIST are as different as # and cheese...

Terrorist noun [countable]
someone who uses violence such as bombing, shooting etc to obtain political demands:

Damn, that describes an immense amount of people, including lots of westerners.

posted on Oct, 25 2003 @ 11:16 AM

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
And, since senility is getting the best of you and youre having difficulty remebering, HITLER KILLED HIMSELF. DUH!!!!!!! We wamted to capture him ALIVE, but little adolf beat us to the punch line.

Skadi, I made the critical error of thinking you had some modicum of at least Public Education... Obvisouly I was WRONG. ****R.M.F.P.*****

The word "suicide", which I stated Hitler Comitted in my post, means to KILL YOURSELF...

I don't think Geritol is what we need here, EDUCATION would be a good thing for you though. A reasonable working knowledge of the history of the world to be more specific. Followed up by half a CLUE of international laws and what's going on RIGHT NOW.

I assure you there were no plans for Hitler other than a public hanging.

Further more, we absolutely declared war against terrorism. I don't give a # if there is a central embassy or not. This is a brave NEW WORLD that requires NEW tactics to defeat one's enemies. THese scumbags have NO RIGHTS in THIS country at all.

Why do you beleive the Geneva Convention enters into this? It has no authority in this case at all. It is as irrelevant as your inane ranting about me being 40 years old.

You REALLY need to get up to speed BEFORE you tango with educated minds Skadi...


posted on Oct, 25 2003 @ 02:41 PM

Originally posted by Springer
Skadi, Nerdling, et al:
Since WHEN do we afford Hostile Combatant, NON-CITIZEN POWs our legal system? NORMALLY they are shot on the battlefield, this guy wasn't ONLY because we think he has value (which has been proven CORRECT) as a snitch.

1. You've always afforded them a free trial, POW or not. Even the nazi's were civil to most prisoners.
2. There is no battlefield, there is no war on terror.

Once you start torturing and executing people, that gives them the right to torture americans, and you dont want to give those middle eastern countries a free license to torture people as we've all saw how they treat women, nevermind enemy combatants.

Dont bring Pearl back into it, i'm talking about tourists and businessmen being tortured, Mr & Mrs Middle America, possibly even your own family.

But that'll never happen right? Yeah, so sit your ass down on your easyboy and sip your coffee, Mr Middle America.

P.s. You don't need to use capitals to emphasise power words, we can read you know.

posted on Oct, 25 2003 @ 02:59 PM
hmmm... someone should start a happy thread...

posted on Oct, 25 2003 @ 03:07 PM
I'll use whatever I want (referring to the capitalization of words for emphasis) however I want in my own posts. While it is evident YOU know how to read (see there I did it again) it remains a mystery to me whether Skadi can...

I am not "Middle America", try top 7% and you'll zero in on my bracket...

The Nazi's did NOT hold trials for P.O.W.s after they were caught dude. They DID torture the hell out of them for info if they were high enough up the food chain however. have you ever read any of the TRUE (there it is again!) history of the SS or the Gestapo?! It'll keep you up at night...

We, however, are NOT doing these morbid things to these scumbags even though, unlike a true soldier, they deserve it. I am personally against all forms of "formal, scientific torture" but a punch in the gut or a one in the chops is okay by me IF required to get cooperation. Sleep deprivation, sodium pentathol, sensory deprivation are all acceptable forms of cooperation enducement because they leave no permanent damage...

I sip whiskey not coffe in a Charles and Raye Eams lounge chair, or a custom leather recliner, I don't own a "La Z Boy"...

It ios real easy to go on a website and type a bunch of crap about businessmes getting tortured and civil rights being lost. It is another thing all together to site ONE instance of it actually happening. The oNLY people losing their civil rights in this country are the people who seek to do us harm.

Name ONE civil right you have lost by virtue of the Patriot act. ONE, I'll wait...

Name ONE "Business Man" who has been tortured by ouir government. ONE, I'll wait for this too...

The craving the Liberals have to get their power back is second only to the absolute CRAP they will make up in the hope of scaring the population into voting for them.

California, most recently, the last Congressional elections, and the last run for the Whithouse has proven America is ON TO the B.S. and the Liberals are so far out in LEFT FIELD they haven't got a chance of winning a seat on greyhound bus to Pokipsie much less any meaningful position of power.

I'll wait right here for your list of civil rights that you have lost and the list of businessmen tortured by the US government...


posted on Oct, 25 2003 @ 03:22 PM
DOJ Myth: Section 215 of the PATRIOT Act can only be used to obtain “business records.”

Reality: The FBI can use Section 215 to demand “any tangible thing,” including books, letters, diaries, library records, medical and psychiatric records, financial information, membership lists of religious institutions, and even -- as Attorney General Ashcroft himself conceded in testimony before Congress -- genetic information.

DOJ Myth: Before the Patriot Act, “the FBI could get a wiretap to investigate the mafia, but they could not get one to investigate terrorists.”

Reality: The FBI has always had the authority to wiretap terrorists, both under the ordinary criminal laws and under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act.

DOJ Myth: The “sneak-and-peek” provision (Section 213) is necessary to allow the FBI to conduct investigations “without tipping off terrorists.”

Reality: The FBI already had the authority to conduct “sneak-and-peek” searches of terrorists. Under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, the FBI is empowered to conduct sneak- and-peek searches in intelligence investigations involving foreign powers and their agents. A “foreign power” includes any group “engaged in international terrorism or activities in preparation therefor.” Section 213 authorizes sneak-and-peek searches in run-of-the-mill criminal investigations, not just in foreign-intelligence investigations involving terrorists.

DOJ Myth: The PATRIOT Act “provided for only modest, incremental changes in the law.”

Reality: The PATRIOT Act made dozens of significant changes to the law, including a handful that are truly radical. For more details on how the PATRIOT Act undermines the constitutional rights of everyone living in the United States, go to

Courtesy of the ACLU.

Yeah i'm also in that top 7% but you dont see me staring down my nose at the rest of the world.

Download the PDF from that page.

I'm sorry but i dont keep records on who is tortured in the US, but i'm pretty sure if you wanted to cover it up you could. Then again you dont get an eye for an eye, the arabs have the same view as you Springer, but they want more than an eye, for every member of that camp you torture and kill i guarantee you they'll kill at least 10 americans.

posted on Oct, 25 2003 @ 03:23 PM
well, as of losing civil rights, people in the US may not have lost any yet... but probably here ...though of course, none of this sorta stuff is new to any of us.

as of torture... i've heard that the CIA has done some pretty #ed up # in it's time...

posted on Oct, 25 2003 @ 03:35 PM
The CIA has probably done some really BAD #, BUT Nerd made statements as if they were factual which are totally UNSUBSTANTIATED BULL# not based in fact.

THIS is what blows my mind about liberals. They spew all sorts of B.S. as if they KNOW it and have the evidence to prove it when it is nothing but hot air.

THIS is why the Libs have such a credibility problem with the HUGE majority of Americans. They basically lie their asses off and attack the Republicans, Liberatarians, Moderates and Independants and offer NO SOLUTIONS.

I beleive America is looking for answers not scapegoats. I beleive America wants to know that whoever is in charge has a PLAN and the ability to execute it.

You and I can say "WE HEARD" about the C.I.A. doing terrible things and that is intellectually HONEST. If we came on here and said "The C.I.A. is torturing businessmen" that's called BULL# or bald faced lying.

The same as all these fear mongers who try to tell us all we have lost our civil rights over the patriot act. I have YET to have one person tell me which SINGLE civil right they have lost. Much less a whole lot of them!

It's just CRAP.


posted on Oct, 25 2003 @ 03:39 PM
Do you know why? There are events that killed more people in 5 minutes than 911. Guess who did it? The United States. More than once too.

Do you know what happened after? People were tortured, even til today. Everyone just looks away.

These next words will tell you what we did:


..and Nagasaki was Japan's only center of Christianity...
Don't tell me that the US can go around and beat the s*** out of anyone that threatens them.

posted on Oct, 25 2003 @ 03:42 PM
THat is simply ludicrous.

The Japanese STARTED a war with us by attacking us without provocation. If you think THAT gave the Islamofacists license to take out the World Trade Center you, sir, are in dire need of a new OPINION.

That is tantamount to proclaiming it rains because there is sand in the bottom of the ocean.


posted on Oct, 25 2003 @ 03:52 PM
Hey Springer those kids hassling you again?

Jeez what do they teach them is school now anyways?

I went into a McD's a while back and a classroom was in there in the back and that was a so-called class excersion. Oh well guess they know most of em' will end up working in there anyways.

posted on Oct, 25 2003 @ 03:59 PM

in all honesty, you could be right about all of this. i'll give you that. america could infact be the good guys that they have always been, as portrayed in movies and such. and even if i find that unlikely, i'll validate your opinion the respect of your choice in making it. in that, i know i've tried to start # with you before, merely because this is a touchy topic. and from now, i will try to keep it on more of a thought vs. thought level with respect for opinions on both sides.


posted on Oct, 25 2003 @ 04:01 PM
Well, it has to be War time to be able to kill people with no heart. It was war back then. Every day is war to terrorists.

Do these numbers compute?

70,000 people died.
70,000 people injured.
5 square miles of total destruction.

40,000 people killed.
60,000 people injured.
3 square miles of total destruction.

140,000 dead in Hiroshima

200,000 dead.

~Total Deaths in Nagasaki~

What justifies war? What justifies hate?

posted on Oct, 25 2003 @ 04:05 PM

Originally posted by THENEO
Hey Springer those kids hassling you again?

Jeez what do they teach them is school now anyways?

I went into a McD's a while back and a classroom was in there in the back and that was a so-called class excersion. Oh well guess they know most of em' will end up working in there anyways.

Just what point did that comment serve?

Ok so some of us may work in McD' what? its a way of earning cash.

posted on Oct, 25 2003 @ 04:06 PM
Did you know that Hiroshima shouldn't had happened? Japan's communication was breaking down just as they were going to surrender. Extra deaths. I think any country would get the picture after one hit.

But there's more to it.

"...the United States Navy had cut Japan's supply lines. In military terms, the atom bombing would be unnecessary. General Curtis LeMay, the grand organizer of the bombing of Japan, opposed the nuclear operation and estimated that a few more conventional bombings would have sufficed to "bring Japan to her knees." However, as some historians and politicians have pointed out, Americans had a score to settle with the Japanese for the bombing of Pearl Harbor, execution of American war prisoners and violations of international rules."

posted on Oct, 25 2003 @ 04:09 PM

my point is this,

the school system teaches you to be a socialist and then shows you that your job is to go and work for the man.

it does not encourage self sufficiency in the average citizen anymore because the controllers only want to get more and more powerful in their allegiance to satan. In other words you are trained to be their slave and see no way out. That is why capitalism is being slammed and promoted as an old system and now we need a new one and it is called fascism.

posted on Oct, 25 2003 @ 04:11 PM
That's all I can ask for.

Peace it is.

A logical debate when done with style and class is always better than a flame war...

I just like to stay in the realm of the REAL, PROVABLE Facts rather than the hyperbole and bull# I see slung all over the place...

I am NOT opposed to ANY possibility as long as it is presented as a POSSIBILITY and not a fact when there is nothing to back it up. Know what I mean?

PEACE to You and Yours...

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