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A Problem Of Perception : Why China and the U.S. aren't on the same page

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posted on May, 30 2006 @ 01:44 AM
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www.businessweek.com...

Chinese President Hu Jintao arrives in Seattle next week for his first state visit to the U.S. During meetings with the likes of William H. Gates III, Yale University students, and finally President George W. Bush, there will be plenty of talking. Given the huge geopolitical and economic stakes riding on that dialogue, it's appropriate to ask: Why do China and America have such difficulty communicating?

Sure, the two nations are half a world apart, geographically, historically, and politically. But the cause of their at times cacophonous discourse could lie in something less obvious: the strikingly different academic training of their political leaders.

The majority of American senators and congressmen were schooled as lawyers. But each of China's senior leaders -- all nine members of the Politburo's Standing Committee -- was trained as an engineer: President Hu in hydropower, Premier Wen Jiabao in geological structure, for instance. Perhaps the difficulties between China and the U.S. lie less with dissimilar languages, cultures, and histories, and more with the divergent ways of thinking between lawyers and engineers


please read it all - it is rather good actually and does explain alot of things about the 2 relevant countries

Mod Edit: External Source Tags – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 31/5/2006 by Mirthful Me]




posted on May, 30 2006 @ 02:51 AM
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Well dissimular government is definately a huge part....

they model their goverment after our former enemies government.

I have also heard somewhere that china is producing weapons at a rate unseen since nazi germany.



posted on May, 30 2006 @ 03:23 AM
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Originally posted by XphilesPhan they model their goverment after our former enemies government.



They dont model their government on the soviet union model, who i assume u are reffering to. Stalin would of spat on the modern day chinese government.
Mainly China doesnt have a planned economy, like the soviets did. Yes the chinese lean to the left, but they are not communists.



posted on May, 30 2006 @ 08:29 AM
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Originally posted by XphilesPhan
Well dissimular government is definately a huge part....

they model their goverment after our former enemies government.

I have also heard somewhere that china is producing weapons at a rate unseen since nazi germany.


First id have to agree that Chinas military buildup is definately worth some concern.

Second thing though is that China is NOT cummunist.. they are Captialist, socialists.
And we are capitalist democracy. Russia was NOT communist. they werew in fact socialists aswell... but china will succeed where russia has failed since they have adopted capitalism. True communism has NEVER manifested itself in world govt. What most think of as communism is really socialism. Ture communism is called utopia-where everyone has what they need and theres no rich or poor...etc. Of course thats just fantasy land.



posted on May, 30 2006 @ 09:23 AM
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Originally posted by TONE23
Second thing though is that China is NOT cummunist.. they are Captialist, socialists.


Apparently, sir, you are not exactly well-versed in Chinese politics.

China is governed under a communist government system with Chinese characteristics as long as the Chinese Communist Party is the ruling power. There are socialist principles and policies as allowed by the CPC but such socialist policies and economic liberalization have to be endorsed by the majority of the CPC.

There are no opposition parties, no independent candidate(s) directly challenging the political monopoly of China by the CPC. On the local level, independent candidates can run against Communist candidates but only at the local level. There is no real, meaningful and coherent opposition to the CPC in mainland China.

Any impression of capitalism prospering in China is only a public relation facade, as long as the CPC dictate from the top-down. Capitalist policies are legally and judicially defined by the CPC. Believe it or not, there are many Chinese capitalists who are also the members of the CPC, a prerequisite for status, privileges and/or favors in the Chinese social structure. Revenues earned for a private Chinese company is then heavily taxed by the government and a private Chinese company is required by law to share its profits and provide benefits with the employees from the top-down, though you have to remember the income of an average Chinese is much less than the income of an average American.


Originally posted by TONE23
And we are capitalist democracy. Russia was NOT communist. they werew in fact socialists aswell... but china will succeed where russia has failed since they have adopted capitalism. True communism has NEVER manifested itself in world govt. What most think of as communism is really socialism. Ture communism is called utopia-where everyone has what they need and theres no rich or poor...etc. Of course thats just fantasy land.


True communism is the result of gradual socialist achievements by a government under a single ruling party. Mao achieved that in the 1960s and 1970s, Pol Pot in the 1970s, but with disastrous and tragic results.



posted on May, 30 2006 @ 09:37 AM
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China looks at the world and their goals over a matter of centuries, where
our brilliant leadership sees things over a matter of years.

China could crush our economy without so much as lighting a firecracker.



posted on May, 30 2006 @ 09:52 AM
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original quote by:pawnplayer
China is governed under a communist government system with Chinese characteristics as long as the Chinese Communist Party is the ruling power. There are socialist principles and policies as allowed by the CPC but such socialist policies and economic liberalization have to be endorsed by the majority of the CPC.


If you look at it like that I can understand where your coming from...Communism through advancement of socialist issues..yes i can agree there.
Also, I am aware that there is only ONE party in china CPC and they dont want ANY competition. Hell, they dont even want religion.. because according to the CPC how can you worship the CPC if you worship god.

Lastly of course their capitalist system is a farce designed pretty much for the sole benefit of the party. I certainly wont argue that point.

I guess I just get confizzled sometimes since IMO, Russia and China are so vastly different ion their approach to "communism" that I dont like calling china communist.

sorry for any confusion



posted on May, 30 2006 @ 09:56 PM
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I believe it could be quite true that their leaders think like engineers and ours think like lawyers. The engineer way of thinking is obviously superior; after all who needs leaders that can argue a political case when all you need is leaders who solve problems?
And in a dictatorship you by no means completely need lawyers to market ideas to the public; especially if a party official’s job really is for the good of the nation. This is also why dictatorships are a bad idea of course. Because the people of power have a habit of taking that power trip, a trip too far, by forgetting to care about the welfare of their people, often not truly, sometimes not enough (North Korea being a first class example of both).
So I shiver at the awesome society control the Chinese are under. Fancy an undemocratic state helping people pay for their protest costs, not because it likes them, but precisely because it fears them, precisely because it wants their protest contained.
Did local Chinese media consider saying (to the Chinese people) it supported the protesters? Because that would be just Orwellian

Oh well; guess it won’t be too long till the government is offering to bus me to the I.D card demonstrations? Hay I wonder where that bus trip will lead? No doubt a branch of government like the Tories will say they support me.



posted on May, 30 2006 @ 10:24 PM
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Originally posted by FallenFromTheTree

China looks at the world and their goals over a matter of centuries, where
our brilliant leadership sees things over a matter of years.

China could crush our economy without so much as lighting a firecracker.



Why would they want to crush our economy, when it is supporting theirs.
What do you think would happen if the US put high tarrifs on chinas goods. What would happen if the American public stopped buying their cheap junk.



posted on May, 31 2006 @ 04:55 PM
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Originally posted by TONE23

I guess I just get confizzled sometimes since IMO, Russia and China are so vastly different ion their approach to "communism" that I dont like calling china communist.

sorry for any confusion


Be careful if you say that in China, you could be arrested, interrogated and perhaps jailed for saying seditious words about China not being communist. Communist ideologies and practices in China are taken very seriously by certain Chinese folks.



posted on May, 31 2006 @ 09:25 PM
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Be careful if you say that in China, you could be arrested, interrogated and perhaps jailed for saying seditious words about China not being communist.


Hahaha! Sigh.. another perfect example of Western ignorance of the PRC. It's truly amazing how things so false and ignorant can be said here on ATS. Just to let you know... it is no longer the 1960s... Times have changed in China. No one would give a damn if you said "China is not a communist country," no one would even give you a second look. After Deng made his statement "To become rich is glorious" and his expectations of free elections within 50 years, he set an unprecedented rate of liberalization in both the economy and political sphere in China.

The reasons for the differences between China and the US is clear - the US supported the Nationalist party with weapons and supplies during the civil war; the US has air bases surrounding China with the ability to bomb any city within an hour; the US has pledged support for territory that China believes belongs to itself; minor hostilities are clearly evident; and the US doesn't exactly have a nice attitute towards nations that aren't alligned with it's ideologies and beliefs.

However many differences there may be, I DO believe that unlike the situation with the Soviet Union, these two nations will eventually become "friends." Because again, unlike the Soviet Union, China is liberalizing at a rate unheard of from any socialist state.



[edit on 31-5-2006 by k4rupt]



posted on Jun, 1 2006 @ 05:52 PM
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Who keeps telling the public that China is communist? Why the media, CNN says it and so too does Fox News.
Why are they saying it? Is it because China is a communist country where no one thinks and everyone does what they are told? Or at the very least a country with missiles pointed directly against our civil liberty for the purpose of building a great peoples empire some time forward?
Personally I don't think so.

So why all this anti China business?
And what is the point when we are still trading with them? And unlike ten years ago if we stopped it would hardly be the end of the world for them?

Something is going on here. The Western leadership (or at least parts of it) seem determined to build arguments against us being friends. Otherwise they would have stopped all this communist c*** about fifteen years ago.
I don't see or at least know what objectives the anti Chinese propaganda and lawyers arguments serve; but there must be something going on here.

Maybe its just typical media spin; i.e. people like bad news, or more to the point they like being afraid. But I beg to wonder if its anything more?
Is China a threat to Israel? After all they like Iranian oil. What is it about China that annoys our leadership of lawyers, and media tycoons so much?

It can't be human rights, can it? My understanding is that our lawyers only use that argument, but never really believe in it. Otherwise surely we would sort out our own global arms trade to little dictators, perhaps a few agriculture subsidies, perhaps our lending of money to bad guys even though (under public pressure) we are cancelling some of that debt out with the other hand.

And you would have thought that being a leadership of engineers the Chinese government were easy to get along with? They are bringing about their own reforms just like Britain did in the 18th century. What is it about them that’s against them?
India will be a superpower too, and China will never want to invade us as long as we have the nuclear bomb. So I doubt few people can answer exactly what "secret" agenda it is that must be driving us apart (i.e. giving cause for anti China media propaganda) but I would like to ask anyway (just in case).



posted on Jun, 1 2006 @ 05:59 PM
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Originally posted by k4rupt
Hahaha! Sigh.. another perfect example of Western ignorance of the PRC. It's truly amazing how things so false and ignorant can be said here on ATS. Just to let you know... it is no longer the 1960s... Times have changed in China. No one would give a damn if you said "China is not a communist country," no one would even give you a second look.


Jeez, can you see the slight tongue-in-cheek thingy in my post? Yeah, that was in the old days, at least the general impression.



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