What facts??? Look at the supposed source, dr Kent Hovind whose claims have been debunked repeatedly.

Don't ever believe the "facts" in a chick tract.

It actually sums up my beliefs fairly well. One thing though. I have to bring up irreduceable complexity.

Let's say you take an ordinary human eye. Then, you subtract one thing from it. Any one thing. Go ahead, pick.

Let's say, you chose for arguments sake, the Iris, that colored portion of the eye out of the picture. According to the theory of evolution, parts evolve from a need of parts that perform the function of said part.

Now, if you removed the Iris from the eye, there would be too much light flowing in, it'd burn out your rods and cones, and you'd go blind. Simple as that. In fact, if you were to have chosen any one part of the eye to remove, it wouldn't work. So, how, I might ask did the eye evolve if it wouldn't function if just one part of it were absent, any one part?

That is the basic Idea of Irreduceable complexity. There's like a pile more instances where this is what happens, but I can't remember off the top of my head. Enjoy.


Peace.

Originally posted by William


All of the Hovind crap in this Chick-puke are outright lies. Dr. Dino (Kent Hovind) relies on the tendancy of most people to have a limited science eduation and believe the lies he spreads.

[Edited on 21-10-2003 by William]

I guess that's me then

Seriously though I just thought it was a funny comic strip, and hadn't had time to do a background search on the writer or the links to the "facts". Thanks for the link.

This is why I like ATS You can't just post something and expect people to think it's true. You truly have to do your homework!!!!!

Holy crap!!! Where did you dig this one up? I forgot I ever posted this.
I'm starting to feel like an ATS old timer now. For clarification I posted this for discussion and they don't not represent my beliefs. Had to get that out there.

this man is the WORST-kind of bigot. The kind who attempts to justify his HATE, and ignorant rantings by claiming that they are "God's" Words, and "God's" will!

I became aware of this b@st@rd more than ten years ago, when some people started leaving "Chick Tracts" around the neighborhood.

(If you care to hang around his site long enough, you will see his rantings on how the Catholic church is the "False Prophet" that serves "Satan", and how Rev. Billy Graham (yes, the Southern Baptist Billy Graham) is actually serving SATAN, because of his relationship with the Catholic church!)

This man is the part of the pony that goes over the fence last.

He no more speaks for Christians, than the a$$holes who blow-up abortion clinics, because "God" said so.......

Science and religion are on different levels. Science fact is based on the scientific method and has it flaws. Religion is based on faith. Its like arguing over apples and oranges.

Try to blend them together to make some sense of it all, to try and find common items and thoughts within the different religions and then look at possible scientific explainations for them.

The biggest teaching that the popular religions have given me is that they only practice parts of the biblical teachings that they wish to.

What would Jesus have thought of the religons sitting on millions of dollars of real estate and still leave people hungry in the streets? When the religion itself is more important than the teachings it fails.

What is a soul? To me it appears to be energy with thought this energy might be able to see like energy in solid formwhere as one soul might look normal to another in terms of appearence. A thought based existance would be interesting indeed. And as far as heaven and hell go I am sure all would go where they felt the most comfortable or spend time with those that understood their thoughts and interests.

Visions and OOBs and astral projection is nothing new. Whether real or not sit and meditate for hours on end or pray for hrs on end or eat a few buttons and sooner or later you will see things. Mostly from the mind but possible from a different place all together who knows for sure but all of the above have a thing in common. They all clear the mind of all thoughts allowing the person to recieve visions in whatever form be it of he mind or another realm.

I have seen some interesteing things just by laying quite not thinking of anything and looking inyo the dark with eyes closed, do not react to anything you see just observe.

Good / evil are in the eyes of the beholder.

OldSeer-what would Jesus think?

I think he would be mortified!

After all-he ref'd to the Religious Leaders of his time as "Serpents", and "Hypocrites".

He would probably be FURIOUS at the true evil (intolerance & hate) that is done in HIS name.

Yes i agree totally, somewhere there has to be a common topic and common idea that is consistant with all religons, find that and try to understand it through science and you will be the closest one to knowing the truth if such does exist.

Either way, Religion and Science are opposite sides of the SAME coin.....

Originally posted by Loki


Let's say, you chose for arguments sake, the Iris, that colored portion of the eye out of the picture. According to the theory of evolution, parts evolve from a need of parts that perform the function of said part.

Now, if you removed the Iris from the eye, there would be too much light flowing in, it'd burn out your rods and cones, and you'd go blind. Simple as that. In fact, if you were to have chosen any one part of the eye to remove, it wouldn't work. So, how, I might ask did the eye evolve if it wouldn't function if just one part of it were absent, any one part?

Because organisms had eyes before that were just holes that let light it (primitive ones still have them). It made them more survivable than blind cratures- even #ty vision better than no vision.

Then, irises evolved through mutation. These allowed creatures to see better, hence they wiped out the competition and spread the iris gene.

Don't think backwards, because evolution doesn't work that way.

EDIT: Whoopes, did not realize this topic was a year old

[Edited on 4-18-2004 by Esoterica]

Laff.

It's okay.

I just stumbled into this room by accident.

As Esoterica says primitive organs that just detect light or darkness still exist on some organisms. If you have a mutation that creates a shallow scooped light sensory organ, it cant 'see' anything like we do but it does give the ability to detect direction of a light source. The more scooped the better. Another mutation might give you a mostly spherical ball with an openning. With that you get something aproaching a camera obscura (pinhole camera) which would begin to give you blurry images. Finally several mutations later you would have essentially the pinhole camera with a lens to focus and light-level adjustable iris and color and black and white vision. And the critters with those eyes are going to be able to eat up those primitive critters with lesser eyes, provided they have a brain to work with, which is still in question.

an experiment to try: close off all the light to a room, create a pinhole to let light in through a window that will shine on a blank wall. Presto! you will see a very clear sharp image of what is outside the window upside down on the wall.

To YhwhsCreation: another possibility is space spores

I too wonder some, when you view a Universe where almost everything is entropic, how do you arrive at self organizing chemistry and systems? Could it be that life has some subtle properties or unknown physics that are perhaps different than the rest of the Universe? Where life is not so much an organizer as something that stems from and reflects the order of something else? As if it is somewhere where the gravity is lighter, the friction less, that allows an aspect of the Universe to reveal/express itself, such that it can not do elsewhere in the Universe?

[edit on 17-7-2004 by slank]