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Bayer (Phamaceutical Company) Laces Drugs With HIV - Gets Caught

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posted on May, 27 2006 @ 03:15 PM
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thanks for the reply doc,




original quote by:bsl4doc
There's a good reason for that behaviour in doctors. You know how you have bad experiences with doctors? Well, many of us doctors have had bad experiences with "patients" of these alternative medicine quacks and people who looked up "alternative" treatments on the internet. In just the two years I have been doing clinical rotations first as a student and then doctor, I have seen several patients who had an adverse effect from herbs, have overdosed on an alternative treatment, or have had an infection or conditions WORSEN due to lack of modern medical treatment. Granted, there truly are some alternative treatments that work very well. I am a BIG proponent of taking zinc and vitamin C supplements for colds and minor infections, and it usually works. However, when confronted with a serious or fatal infection/condition, alternative medicine does not compare to modern medical science. I have yet to see a peer reviewed article proving the efficacy of herbal remedies for HIV, Hepatitis, rheumatoid arthritis, tuberculosis, etc, all of which are at least controlled and lessened by modern medicine through antivirals, steroids, etc.


I agree there are definately going to be people that OD and have allergic reactions to herbal treatments..since it all depends on that particular body chemistry. But people OD all the tiome on regular drugs aswell(as im sure you are more then familiar with) Im NOT discrediting medical science as a whole. I just feel there needs to be more of a symbiotic co-existance between the two medical/herbal

And I can see from your perspective aswell that some docs have had bad experiences with their patients(lets be honest some people are a down right pain in the arse) But What I was referring to about MY bad experiences was more to the point of their arrogance and disdain for any input I might have to add(since it IS MY body) I do have SOME understanding of what goes on in it. And fortunately for me I was able to cure myself without ANY DRUGS at all. Sure in my case it was easy to cure since the probvlem was caffine. Ive not had a single headache for 3 weeks(thank goid and my wife for that one) But there are many many cases that DO require modern medicine Just not ALL. IM glad to have read in one of your earlier posts that you do use some alternative methods when treating patients:




original quote by:bsl4doc
I am a "real doctor". I work in public health, and most of the treatments I work with do involve vitamins, minerals, etc. rather than costly antibiotics. However, you cannot deny the abilities of modern medicine. It would be a little daft to slight the progress science has made in promoting health.


Good we need more docs out there that are not afraid to "merge" the two sciences
keep it up

and as far as the HEP C test I wasnt questioning what the article said.... I was only wondering when the first HEP C or any HEP test for that matter was created.




posted on May, 27 2006 @ 03:21 PM
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Originally posted by bsl4doc
Sounds like a plan. When you develop meningitis, encephalitis, or any other fatal infection, please post on this forum about what you did that worked better than antibiotics or antivirals. That's assuming you don't die from the infection trying to find an herb that works as well as medicine.

MFP


Yes, a fatal infection should be under the care of a good well-informed trusted doctor. BUT.. the two infections you just mentioned are caused by:


Meningitis Inflammation of the membranes that cover the brain or spinal cord, usually caused by viral or bacterial infection.

Encephalitis is most commonly caused by certain viral infections or may occur subsequent to prior infection due to immune reactions that indirectly result in inflammation (postinfectious encephalitis).


Am I correct in the causes of those two?

What would cause these viral and bacterial infections to begin manifesting themselves, doctor?

One should look into a patients history of diet as well. Not eating well balanced nutritious foods can cause the body to become out of balance and eventually have viral and bacterial infections grow over time.

One should look into (if it is fatal) combining natural antibiotics like raw Garlic (or the active ingredient Allicin) with pharma antibiotics to improve the chances of recovery.



Garlic has a long proven history as an effective antibiotic, antiviral, antiparasitic, and antifungal. It was used in WWI to prevent wound infections and by Albert Schweitzer to treat dysentery in Africa. The Russians used it in WWII when their supply of penicillin was scarce. It's active compound allicin, is as useful an agent against staph and strep as some of the heaviest hitting meds, and has even been shown to kill antibiotic-resistant strains of these bacteria. It is a broad-spectrum anibiotic and has often been called a "wonder drug". Herbalists recommend eating one clove of chopped raw garlic two to three times per day (added to food). Garlic Oil can also be taken internally. Place 20-30 drops in your ear for ear infections, three times a day. Ideally a raw clove is chewed or crushed. It can also be applied directly to the skin.


I'm also talking about prevention and education.

How often do doctors administer Garlic to patients in hospitals when there is viral and bacertial infections?

or how about Vitamin E for Brain Protection:



Vitamin E is a very multi-talented nutrient that aids a healthy mind. As an antioxidant, vitamin E helps minimize free-radical damage. Since it is fat soluble, it is stored in the fatty parts of your cell membranes; thus, it is uniquely capable of preventing the fat molecules so abundant in brain tissue from turning rancid. Vitamin E protects both the fatty outer membrane and inner membrane of your nerve cells, thereby increasing your brain’s ability to transmit messages from cell to cell, and create energy within the cells.

Vitamin E also reduces free-radical damage to your artery walls, helping to protect you against cardiovascular disease and its choking effect on blood flow to the brain. Numerous studies show that vitamin E supplements reduce the risk of stroke by 53 percent. It also reduces the inflammatory effects of pollution toxins, allergies, and infections, which can eventually reach the brain and wreak havoc there.



Link

Link 2


And since antibiotics kill the good bacteria it is wise to combine the treatment with probiotics. The good bacteria.


Health Benefits of Probiotics

Again, how often do you hear a doctor prescribe this?



posted on May, 27 2006 @ 03:24 PM
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Originally posted by eudaimonia
Simply amazing and absolutely infuriating. This should make the front pages of every publication/newspaper/media news outlet.

Bayer & HIV
youtube video


Obviously this story was pushed aside very fast and never again shown the light of day to the public & media.

Bayer/Aids Settlement


Obviously this is an act of murder on a massive scale. Population Control? You bet!




I take it your'e ignorant of the fact that the HIV virus wasn't even dicovered untill 1983?
How exactly were they supposed to test for a virus that hadn't even been discovered untill 2 years before the end of the time period mentioned?
Especially since it wasn't untill 1985 that the first HIV tests were even available?



posted on May, 27 2006 @ 03:29 PM
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No offense Champion but weve covered all this already. AIDS was discovered in 1981 according to the FDA website. and Yes weve aready established that there was not a test for it until 1985 ...

Read the whole thread before posting so as to not be redundant

P.S. Im not trying to be a jerk. It just that weve adressed this already



posted on May, 27 2006 @ 03:32 PM
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Originally posted by TONE23
No offense Champion but weve covered all this already. AIDS was discovered in 1981 according to the FDA website. and Yes weve aready established that there was not a test for it until 1985 ...

Read the whole thread before posting so as to not be redundant

P.S. Im not trying to be a jerk. It just that weve adressed this already




Nor prob I figured someone probably had, Its just I have been lurking here for awhile before my first posts and for a site dedicated to denying ignorance there are a lot of people here who don't seem to bother do any research before assigning nefarious motives.



posted on May, 27 2006 @ 03:40 PM
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Very good post, Tone. I agree with you wholeheartedly. A good mixture of common sense and modern medicine is the best bet. That's why universal healthcare is such a good thing over here. Cases are given priority from mose severe to least. That means someone with a cold will probably end up waiting weeks before seeing a doctor. For this reason, I advise most friends and family to take zinc and vitamin C instead of waiting and waiting just to get antibiotics which may not even work, considering many colds are caused by a mixture of vira/bacterial infections. The zinc/vitC combo seems to work well for them and myself as well.



Originally posted by eudaimonia

Originally posted by bsl4doc
Sounds like a plan. When you develop meningitis, encephalitis, or any other fatal infection, please post on this forum about what you did that worked better than antibiotics or antivirals. That's assuming you don't die from the infection trying to find an herb that works as well as medicine.

MFP


Yes, a fatal infection should be under the care of a good well-informed trusted doctor. BUT.. the two infections you just mentioned are caused by:


Meningitis Inflammation of the membranes that cover the brain or spinal cord, usually caused by viral or bacterial infection.

Encephalitis is most commonly caused by certain viral infections or may occur subsequent to prior infection due to immune reactions that indirectly result in inflammation (postinfectious encephalitis).


Am I correct in the causes of those two?

What would cause these viral and bacterial infections to begin manifesting themselves, doctor?

One should look into a patients history of diet as well. Not eating well balanced nutritious foods can cause the body to become out of balance and eventually have viral and bacterial infections grow over time.

One should look into (if it is fatal) combining natural antibiotics like raw Garlic (or the active ingredient Allicin) with pharma antibiotics to improve the chances of recovery.


You're half right, eud. A person may become slightly immunocompromised due to a sudden change in diet or a lack of certain nutrient, sure. However, MOST people contract bacterial and viral infections simply because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Personally, I have no resistance to small pox. I never received the vaccine. If I were to come in contact with a small pox virus, I would most likely become infected. This has nothing to do with diet and everything to do with my immune system's ability to respond. Same goes for just about every other infection out there. Ever wonder why AIDS patients come down with pneumocystic and weird fungal infections not seen in 99% of other patients? It's not a change in diet, it's because they are highly immunocompromised.


How often do doctors administer Garlic to patients in hospitals when there is viral and bacertial infections?

or how about Vitamin E for Brain Protection:


You'd be surprised by the number of pharmaceutical drugs that contain compounds also found in garlic, as well as pure vitamins E and C. Many many many drugs are coupled with these for the exact reasons you named. Doctors usually just don't mention it for the same reason they don't mention the chemical name and structure of the drugs they are giving you. Most people wouldn't care to know as long as it works.


And since antibiotics kill the good bacteria it is wise to combine the treatment with probiotics. The good bacteria.


Again, half true. Yes, the antibiotics may kill some of the good bacteria. You have to take into account, though that the majority of pathogenic bacteria are gram negative, which includes pseudomonas, escherichia coli, enterobacteria, legionella, salmonella, etc. while the vast majority of commensal bacteria (the good guys that reside in the back of your throat and lumen of your intestine), are gram postive. Many of the drugs which target the lipid cell wall of gram negative bacteria will not target the mostly peptidoglycan cell wall of gram positive bacteria.


MFP



posted on May, 27 2006 @ 03:45 PM
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do you know that bayer is a company out of germany.when the last time you seen vw in england.these world war 2 wounds still alive and real.would you buy a product that there very foundation is testing bio chems on people.the next time you comsume a product do some background checks. they may look and taste and feel good but you maybe a testing product and your the mouse.



posted on May, 27 2006 @ 03:59 PM
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yes it is true that some dont bother to do ANY research, But ATS has been trying to improve that. There will always be people that just THINK they know everything WITHOUT researching anything. But fortunately we DID do some in this thread.
Thanks for joining in Champion


BTW guys alittle info on HEP C:NIH HEP C History


The hepatitis C virus (HCV) is one of the leading known causes of liver disease in the United States. It is a common cause of cirrhosis and hepatocellular carcinoma (HCC) as well as the most common reason for liver transplantation. At least 4 million people in this country are believed to have been infected with HCV. Following the identification of hepatitis A and hepatitis B, this disorder was categorized in 1974 as "non-A, non-B hepatitis." In 1989, the hepatitis C virus was identified and found to account for the majority of those patients with non-A, non-B hepatitis. In March 1997, the National Institutes of Health (NIH) held a Consensus Development Conference regarding management and treatment of HCV infection. This led to an important, widely distributed NIH Consensus Statement that, for several years, defined the standard of care.


Im not sure but from what I read it says that HEP C wasnt even identified until 1989 before that it was just NON A and NON B, so how would they have tested for HEP C?

also on a side note my wife works at an all natural health store and she says that the BIG PHARMA companies are always trying to get NAtural items taken off the shelf and banned by the FDA(theres little doubt as to the BIG PHARMA stranglehold on the FDA, through funding mainly). Doctors need to stand up and not let this happen We need both not just one or the other. I guess you may have noticed but really not a fan of BIG PHARMA.

[edit on 27-5-2006 by TONE23]



posted on May, 27 2006 @ 04:14 PM
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also on a side note my wife works at an all natural health store and she says that the BIG PHARMA companies are always trying to get NAtural items taken off the shelf and banned by the FDA(theres little doubt as to the BIG PHARMA stranglehold on the FDA, through funding mainly). Doctors need to stand up and not let this happen We need both not just one or the other. I guess you may have noticed but really not a fan of BIG PHARMA.


I have no doubt this happens. However, Big Pharma doesn't count on one thing. Most of us doctors tend to have a bit of an ego, and don't like to be told what to do =). As I mention before, zinc and vitamin C have worked great as a cold remedy. A Glaxo rep once told me that I was being ridiculous and it was probably psychosomatic. I asked him for scientific studies to prove me wrong, and he told me that they wouldn't waste money testing "alchemy". That man is now banned from my office =).

MFP



posted on May, 27 2006 @ 04:28 PM
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original quote by:bsl4doc
I have no doubt this happens. However, Big Pharma doesn't count on one thing. Most of us doctors tend to have a bit of an ego, and don't like to be told what to do =). As I mention before, zinc and vitamin C have worked great as a cold remedy. A Glaxo rep once told me that I was being ridiculous and it was probably psychosomatic. I asked him for scientific studies to prove me wrong, and he told me that they wouldn't waste money testing "alchemy". That man is now banned from my office =).


thank you!!!!!!!!. We need more docs out there like you...but let me guess your not in america right? where Italy, England, germany?
BTW YES you guys definately have an ego. sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worse. In your case I'd have to say that maybe its a good thing...lol.

Also I was unable to find when the first Hep tests became available.On my previous post I was able to find a bit on the history, but couldnt pin point when testing became available other then Hep non-a and non-b.. between 74 and 76. And that HEP C wasnt even truly identified until 1989. If you could help clarify this that would be great.



posted on May, 27 2006 @ 04:34 PM
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Originally posted by bsl4doc
I have no doubt this happens. However, Big Pharma doesn't count on one thing. Most of us doctors tend to have a bit of an ego, and don't like to be told what to do =). As I mention before, zinc and vitamin C have worked great as a cold remedy.

MFP


Vitamin C is offers sooo much more than just relieving cold/allergy symptoms.

There is a controversial but well documented therapy using Vitamin C in megadoses. Anything up to 10 grams to 200 grams. With no side effects/toxicity whatsoever.

I've personally taken 10 grams of Vitamin C and experienced no side effects. You do however, need to drink lots of water!

Infectious Diseases & Autoimmune Diseases respond extremely well to megadose vitamin C.



Megadose vitamin C therapy continues to be a highly controversial topic. Traditional medicine tends to view vitamin C as a nutrient that is only useful for preventing scurvy. In The Third Face of Vitamin C, published in 1993, Dr. Cathcart detailed his clinical experience treating over 20,000 patients with high doses of vitamin C over a 23-year period. Cathcart found that doses of up to 200 or more grams per day were effective in treating clinical diseases involving free radicals. The list of diseases involving free radicals includes infections, cardiovascular diseases, cancer, trauma, burns (both thermal and radiation), surgeries, allergies,autoimmune diseases and aging.

Megadose therapy has caught the interest and fired the imagination of many eminent researchers. The late Irwin Stone pioneered the early use of high dose vitamin C for treating diseases. His close friend, Dr. Frederick Klenner conducted much of the original clinical research on vitamin C megadose therapy, reporting that most viral diseases could be cured when patients were treated with intravenous sodium ascorbate in amounts up to 200 grams per day.



Addtional Info



The effectiveness and safety of megadose vitamin C therapy should, by now, be yesterday’s news. Yet I never cease to be amazed at the number of persons who remain unaware that vitamin C is the best broad-spectrum antibiotic, antihistamine, antitoxic and antiviral substance there is. Equally surprising is the ease with which some people, most of the medical profession, and virtually all of the media have been convinced that, somehow, vitamin C is not only ineffective but is also downright dangerous.


Vitamin C, Infectious Diseases, and Toxins: Curing the Incurable, by Thomas E. Levy, M.D

[edit on 27-5-2006 by eudaimonia]



posted on May, 27 2006 @ 04:47 PM
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Originally posted by TONE23



original quote by:bsl4doc
I have no doubt this happens. However, Big Pharma doesn't count on one thing. Most of us doctors tend to have a bit of an ego, and don't like to be told what to do =). As I mention before, zinc and vitamin C have worked great as a cold remedy. A Glaxo rep once told me that I was being ridiculous and it was probably psychosomatic. I asked him for scientific studies to prove me wrong, and he told me that they wouldn't waste money testing "alchemy". That man is now banned from my office =).


thank you!!!!!!!!. We need more docs out there like you...but let me guess your not in america right? where Italy, England, germany?
BTW YES you guys definately have an ego. sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worse. In your case I'd have to say that maybe its a good thing...lol.

Also I was unable to find when the first Hep tests became available.On my previous post I was able to find a bit on the history, but couldnt pin point when testing became available other then Hep non-a and non-b.. between 74 and 76. And that HEP C wasnt even truly identified until 1989. If you could help clarify this that would be great.


Unfortunarely, yes, I am in Italy, hehe. I may do a medical mission to an underserved area of the USA, though. Probably out West. As for the Hepatitis, your sources seemed pretty accurate. I had always heard that HCV wasn't identified as a definitive causative agent for Hep C until the mid-late 80s, and that until then it was a non-a non-b chronic hepatic infection. Very interesting virus, though. Hepatitis B and A also have a very interesting and long history.

MFP



posted on May, 27 2006 @ 05:12 PM
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In just the two years I have been doing clinical rotations first as a student and then doctor, I have seen several patients who had an adverse effect from herbs, have overdosed on an alternative treatment,

I have yet to see a peer reviewed article proving the efficacy of herbal remedies for HIV, Hepatitis, rheumatoid arthritis, tuberculosis, etc, all of which are at least controlled and lessened by modern medicine through antivirals, steroids, etc.

MFP


Compared to western drugs most "herbal treatments" don't cause a lot of severe adverse effects. You should always be aware of what you are taking. For instance if you are taking a drug that thins the blood like coumadin or warfarin (originally developed as a rat poison), you should not use a blood thinning herb like Ginko.

You're not going to see many peer reviews about herbal trials. The NIH does some testing on single herbs, but for instance in Chinese medicine single herbs are rarely used. Herbal trials are not going to be done by drug companies, lets face it- that's contraindicated!

Many plants become the basis for medicines. For example- aspirin from willow bark. The essential elements are extracted and reproduced so that they can be patented for sale. It takes quite a bit of time and research from the drug company and they have to buy a lot of doctors lunches in order to sell their product. This can be costly and they do a lot of research, therefore the need for making the money back is essential. They get a patent for 7 years before the drug goes generic. Time to recoup their investment and make their profit.

A drug version of ephedra (ephedrine) is still used in over the counter inhalers and nasal sprays. No prescription necessary. Because herbal ephedra was suspected (not proven) to be the cause of a few deaths it was pulled off the market, it is only "speculation" that this herb caused any deaths. Was an incorrect dose taken? Were other health problems there, undetected? If people abuse legal drugs and die from them is it considered the fault of the drug?

I was doing some research when I discovered a report about the war on drugs from 1994 by Hugh Downs, who is a reporter in the US.

www.druglibrary.org...

"In a typical year, the approximate number of people who die from taking coc aine hovers around 2,500 people. Heroin deaths are less than that, at about 2,000. To give some perspective to these numbers, it's useful to bear in mind that 2,000 people die every year from taking aspirin, too." H.D.

Look at how many people die each year from aspirin. Does anyone even know that? Would you ever think aspirin causes any deaths much less as many deaths each year as heroin, or even think of it as unsafe? No. This is about marketing!

We need to know what drug/herb interactions are but I don't feel that an herb should be pulled off the market when you can go to the drugstore and buy a version of it over the counter. They can sell ephedrine (ephedra) in gas stations and do so because it is a "drug". Doesn't it seem odd that as an herb it's too dangerous, but as a drug it's not, and should we keep allowing ourselves to be manipulated like this? We keep getting these huge "scares" over possible problems with herbal products, let's put it in perspective, it's about money. The Chinese have used herbs for thousands of years. Very effective for many problems.

Many drugs have been used for a long time before hazard's were suspected or discovered- (i.e. hormones)and if you watch drug ads on t.v. you may see side effects that are far worse that your original problem.

If I had a serious infection that couldn't be handled naturally I would take antibiotics, but it is given out so much for so many things that it can't treat, that the bugs are developing a resistence to it. Now that's scary!



posted on May, 27 2006 @ 05:30 PM
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Originally posted by bsl4doc
I applaud you for staying to rational and calm in this heated thread. Have a great weekend =).
MFP


And I you...this can be a tough crowd sometimes if your view is in the minority. Goodluck with your rounds next month and remember...

It's easier to change threads than to change a person's "diaper" err opinion. You'll attract more bears with honey (than vinegar). Always look on the bright side of life. Vodka tastes better with lemonade. The earth is round....etc.


p.s. Oh...and right back attcha with a WATS.


Dae

posted on May, 27 2006 @ 06:44 PM
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Wow, reckon this thread has been proper derailed! I wont bother with any more frivolous links but for sake of reference its at www.hemophilia-litigation.com.


Carol Grayson, co-ordinator of Haemophilia Action UK, who uncovered the documents, said: "We were told nothing. They knew there was another type of hepatitis that was attacking the liver whether there was a test or not." Haemophiliac Andy Gunn, who is pursuing legal action in America against plasma manufacturers over alleged contamination, said he would ensure his lawyers were aware of the documents.


But yeah, they continued to sell bad blood products despite the FDA saying 'no more in USA', despite the date HIV was discovered and despite Mariella's soon to be doctorhood



posted on May, 27 2006 @ 07:40 PM
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Originally posted by Dae
Wow, reckon this thread has been proper derailed! I wont bother with any more frivolous links but for sake of reference its at www.hemophilia-litigation.com.


Carol Grayson, co-ordinator of Haemophilia Action UK, who uncovered the documents, said: "We were told nothing. They knew there was another type of hepatitis that was attacking the liver whether there was a test or not." Haemophiliac Andy Gunn, who is pursuing legal action in America against plasma manufacturers over alleged contamination, said he would ensure his lawyers were aware of the documents.


But yeah, they continued to sell bad blood products despite the FDA saying 'no more in USA', despite the date HIV was discovered and despite Mariella's soon to be doctorhood


Oh, I don't doubt the hepatitis claim. They probably had a way of knowing there WAS some sort of hepatitis strain, it just hadn't been classified yet so they could get by with the claim of ignorance. It wasn't until years later that Hep C was targeted. I totally agree, though, they it was most likely known that some unknown strain of hepatitis in the product.

MFP



posted on May, 27 2006 @ 07:54 PM
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Originally posted by Dae
Wow, reckon this thread has been proper derailed! I wont bother with any more frivolous links but for sake of reference its at www.hemophilia-litigation.com.


Carol Grayson, co-ordinator of Haemophilia Action UK, who uncovered the documents, said: "We were told nothing. They knew there was another type of hepatitis that was attacking the liver whether there was a test or not." Haemophiliac Andy Gunn, who is pursuing legal action in America against plasma manufacturers over alleged contamination, said he would ensure his lawyers were aware of the documents.


But yeah, they continued to sell bad blood products despite the FDA saying 'no more in USA', despite the date HIV was discovered and despite Mariella's soon to be doctorhood


Sorry we got derailed there, Dae


But, You are right, I just felt we needed to be clear on the timing of events. While WHY may be the ultimate goal we cannot get there without the, WHO, WHAT, WHEN, WHERE all all agreed on by those of us in this debate(of which im probably the thickest) so again to sum up as my last post in this thread is:

Bayer probably did it with knowledge of tainted product and got off easy.

thanks for the debate guys take care



posted on May, 27 2006 @ 09:23 PM
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Suddenly, my good buddy Bsl4doc is a champion for alternative medicine?



Maybe you guys should read some recent threads involving both Bsl4doc and myself. Bsl4doc stated alternative medicine was mostly fraud, only used by gullible people, and ANY satisficatory results were basically psychosomatic... Bsl4doc even went so far as to clearly state that alternative remedies were the stuff of GYPSIES.

I would guess an insult.


I like Gypsies... AND their viewpoint, so I found it funny.


I guess implying it had no place in modern medicine, real medicine, actual medicine... Euphemisms, it would seem for us alternative medicine quacks.

I found Bsl4docs comments on glucosamine and friends particularly amusing.

As to the core subject at hand, it's truly disheartening when you not only (want to) underestimate the actual number of casualties resulting from YET ANOTHER MASS MURDER of innocents in the name of the almight dollar.

It becomes MURDER Bsl4doc, when BAYER CONTINUES TO MARKET THE TAINTED PRODUCT ONE SECOND AFTER THEY DISCOVER IT WAS TAINTED.

What is even scarier than that is that you somehow seem to argue in favor of the products continued use and somehow to accept those underestimated loses as some kind of justifiable collateral damage due to the overall value of the clotting factor.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT THOSE INNOCENTS INFECTED WITH HIV WERE IN FACT NOW CONTAGIOUS?

I guess it's not suprising that we once again find ourselves on different sides... I guess the relative point is people associated with alternative medicine are not so clinical... Read they really care about people... Not so much about their precious medical 'science'.

Not really something you could EVER accuse big pharma of doing...



posted on May, 27 2006 @ 10:45 PM
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Golemina, please do not go off topic. Yes, I was against alternative medicine in the thread you were referring to, because that was PURE alternative medicine. If you will please read this thread thoroughly, you will see I am for a combined approach to alternative and modern medicine.

Thanks for being so crass, though. Really attractive. Maybe the mods can explain etiquette to you?

MFP



posted on May, 28 2006 @ 08:00 AM
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Originally posted by bsl4doc
Yes, I did watch the video.
HIV wasn't even DISCOVERED until 1984, and we didn't have any way to test for it's presence until about 6 months afterwards. So, remind me again how Bayer could have known that there was HIV in the medication from 1978 - 1985 as your video suggests?

MFP



I can also confirm that Bayer couldn't have possibly known the blood was tainted with Hep C either. According to Stanford University School of Medicine the virus wasn't even isolated until 1989.

Because of the time frame, it's clear that Bayer couldn't have known definitively if the HIV or Hep C viruses were present in the prisoners blood. Nevertheless, they are criminally negligent for using a questionable blood source in the first place.

Just as many close their minds to evidence of conspiracies, it seems the same may be true in reverse. Don't be too quick to believe or dismiss anything without first weighing the facts.



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