I'm a Chinese, I can answer your questions about China.

Originally posted by donwhite
For historical perspective, it was mainly the Franciscans and Dominicans who accompanied Columbus and the other Spanish Conquistadores who looted the New World of tons of gold. And witnessed if not encouraged the deaths of millions of natives.

In the 19th century, America sent Protestant missionaries to China, mainly Presbyterians (of John Knox) and Methodists (of John Wesley). Here we see a new country - the United States was born in 1775 - and a new religion - Protestantism was born in 1517 - deigning to go to one of the two oldest countries on earth, China, founded in 1,500 BC, with one of the oldest and best ethical systems anywhere, after Confucius, and purporting to tell them the “good news” how to be “saved” and where to send their money. Arrogant? Or ignorant?

I am looking into Confucius as a proven follow-on to a failed Christianity.

[edit on 5/27/2006 by donwhite]

Threads in Chinese Forum indicated most of posters disagreed to restore relations with Vatican. I don't know how many of them are Christians. They hold such views because they believe Christianism has helped western country to invade and plunder China and want to do it again now.

For me, I have studied the faith of Buddhism, Taoism, Christianism, Moslem, and , of course, Confucianism. In my views, Confucianism isn't a belief and it's just a set of ethical and moral principles. Moslem is over-violent. Taoism is a little selfish. Christianism didn't show much cogent argument to me. Buddhism is more attrative to me. As a same result, most of my chinese intellectual friends believe Buddhism and many government officials believe Buddhism too.

It don't means I'm a Buddhist, because I still have many confusions about it.

Originally posted by Desert Dawg
I'm wondering if there are several quality/accuracy levels of machine tools in China and the US market only receives the cheapest ones.

It seems China would do better to export the higher quality tools and build a reputation for quality rather than receive disparaging remarks for the cheaper made and less accurate tools which in the end leads to fewer sales.

Desert Dawg,

I have seen a threads about machine tools not long ago, in which the poster asked why chinese didn't develop their own high accurate machine tools, and just denpending on import. The title of it is "Chinese auto can't run witout Japanese machine tools". Objectors raised many examples and Datas to show China is making great improvement now, and would exceed Japnese in 2009.

I'm not familiar with this field, so I just observed the argument. I noticed that, main of objectors weren't professional of this field too. they just felt uncomfortable with the original articles, then collected evidences from internet to retort it. They also admited China was very behindhand in machine tools, and their emphasis was the improvement was very fast.

So I get that Chinese are do very behindhand in machine tools.

I don't know specific reasons.

The article is below.
here

It's impossible for Chinese company withhold high quality machine tools and export cheapest ones, because foreign customer always have higher requirement than domestic so they always export the best ones.

Earthlism

[edit on 29-5-2006 by Earthlism]

Thank you very much Earthlism.

It answers a question I've had for a long time.

Chinese machinists, like any other machinist in the world, have apparently learned to work around the shortcomings of their tools.

Even so, it will be interesting to see what China develops in the precision tools area.

Originally posted by 32genroman
3 pages of replies I hope you can get back to me.

A protester when Bush and the chinese president were in the US together. She was going on about a banned religion in China that had maybe a questionable practice maybe considered occult or metaphysics. What is that religion?

Thanks!

Just as asmilesnail said, there's no religion, but Qigong, and most of Chinese have no idea what it is. I'm one of the few people who know the context.

First of all, I must clarify that, what I oppose to it is different from what Chinese government combat it.

Government cracked dowm it because they believed some forces were using it as a tool to upset them. I certainly don't support forcible suppressing action.

My analysis is below.

Thousands of years, Chinese were accustomed to worship an emperor, which was their dominating belief. when the last emperor vanished followed the last Feudal Dynasty, people still tried to seek a substitute to replace the empty space. From this, Mao was excessive adored and caused tragedy. Successor Deng ended this situation and unleashed the country's economic reforms in 1979. Two changes happened in ideology.

First, the worship of the golden calf pouring in Chinese, but fortune gap were wider and wider. People lost psychological balance and were over anxious.

Second, There were huge empty space left in people's heart, which spured them to continually seek new substitute to stuff upon and resist the large psychological fall.

In this times, Qigong appeared.

There were dozens of famous Qigong master during eighty and ninty involving, Zhanghongbao, Zhangxiaopin, Shenchang, Yanxin, Tianruisheng, etc. Every of them claimed they found the best occult Qigong which could cure difficult diseases and they were authorized by "God" to save people.

People soon caught them as the substitute and worshiped them.

Falong gong appeared comparatively late. It apparently absorbed its former counterparts experience and seemed more demagogic and more magnificent.

But if you knew the former Qigong, you were easy to realize how absurd it was substantively.

Do you believe dozens of saviours come to ground to save people at the same time? I had exercised one of them for several years followed one of the "master". It's disappointed to see at last what they pursued was merely money. They cheated people and crushed their dream and extracted their money and destroyed their life. Which I had seen personally.

Most of these "master" were arrested for bilk at last . Only Falong gong were treated as high treason due to series of happening.

I still believe Qigong is Chinese rare fortune. Many occult phenomenon occur not because alleged "master" but potential ability of our body and nature.

Most importantly and eventually, what our people need is not fantasy and opium but wisdom, knowlodge of the world, cognition about life and live.

We have slept too long. If we can't wake from eastern Dragon dreams or other fantasies as soon as possible, if we can't really be adapted to this new world, we would bear more and more cross and suffering in the future.

[edit on 30-5-2006 by Earthlism]

Hi again Earthlism,

How are you doing?

Here's my question. How many people speak English in China? Are many people learning it?

Thanks!
Steve

Originally posted by jbondo
Earthlism
I would like to ask you, how does the average Chinese person view America regarding our Foreign policy in places such as Iraq, Afghanistan and most recently Iran? Do you see us as world police or as nosy neighbors? Do you think we are doing what's right for the Iraqi people? Also, America has a long standing law to defend Taiwan against invasion from aggressors. Does the thought of possible future conflict with America cause concern among Chinese people?

Personally, I have no ill will toward any countries people and many of us pray that we could all find common ground. However, many people are conditioned to fear and hate America, sometimes by the media outlets that operate under our very own flag. Many believe that Islam and their extreme factions are the greatest threat facing the world. How do you view this?

On the Economic side from your vantage point, does the average person view America as an Economic partner of China or do they see America as just a rich customer that boosts the Chinese Economy?

jbondo,

Thanks for your praise!

Issues around Iran and Iraq were always the core of discussion in Chinese international affairs forum.

There are two types of opinions debating hotly. One support American for they overturned a dictatorial regime and liberated their people. Another oppose it for they think the real aim of American is just the oil, not the liberation of Iraq people.

Both of them have plenty of backers. It's hard to say which is more typical.

Some people take American as threat. Others more concern domestic problem.

Both of them oppose Islam. There are rare citizens support it, except Huizu, which is a ethnical branch of Islam in China.

The thought of possible future conflict with America do cause concern among Chinese people. If someone assume war on Taiwan, they will surely take America into consideration.

For ordinary people, they are just concerned with their own income, and don't care about whether America is Chinese Economic parter or rich customer.

Now let me express my personal opinion.

First of all, nowadays world is different from any ages of history due to territory and nuke. When I look back the past, I see expanding and uniting is a rules of a country survival. If a country was strong enough, it would surely seek to expand its territory, eat up other countries and conquer widest lands, until reached its power or technology limitation. On the other hand, None of them felt absolutely safe because there were always enemy countries around them.

So people endeavoured to improve weapon to making them better and better, and explore the world to take back abundant resources. Which seemed as if unlimited. But unfortunately, the limitation was reached in 20th century.

Things changed rapidly in recent two centuries, even exceeded the totalize of all the fomer human histories.

(continue tomorrow)

What are your thoughts on that superdam and how many people will be displaced when the flooding begins?

Any thoughts on the environmental impact of this project?

When its the completion date of the dam?

posted by Earthlism

jbondo, Thanks for your praise! Let me express my opinion.
First, nowadays world is different from any past age of history due to territory and nukes. If a country was strong enough, it would seek to expand its territory until it reached the limit of its power or technology . . people endeavor to improve weapons making them more powerful, and explore the world to take its abundant resources . . resources that once seemed unlimited. Unfortunately, the limit [on natural resources] was reached in the late 20th century. Things changed rapidly in most recent two centuries, so fast, so much, exceeding the total of all the previous human history. (continue tomorrow) [Edited by Don W]

I have read that China is buying (or building) 3 super quiet diesel submarines from some European shipbuilder. The only possible use China has for a submarine is to raise the ante over the Straits of Taiwan. America is in the 4th generation of post-diesel subs. I guess a pretty good short range shallow depth diesel sub costs about $250 million. 70 man crew.

Every American nuclear powered sub cost over $1 billion. Two 110 man crews. No one mentions whether that includes the electronics and weaponry, but probably not. Add another $1 billion before you go to sea. Your ‘perceived enemy’ spends $750 million and you spend $12 billion in countervailing force! I believe this is called “leverage.”

We like to have two subs to do one subs work. I can see the US adding 6 more nuclear powered subs to our already overly large sub fleet to “counter” the “threat” posed by the new Chinese subs. Just as OBL spent a couple million on the Nine Eleven Event, and the US spent $40 billion in NYC, and $200 billion on Homeland [In]Security and over $500 billion in Iraq and Afghan and still “no end in sight.” Now that's leverage.

Israel wags our tail in the Middle East and the Taiwanese wag our tail in the Western Pacific. I do hope the mainlanders and the islanders can resolve their differences, befoe we see everyone in bankruptcy court.



[edit on 5/30/2006 by donwhite]

Originally posted by Earthlism
There are two types of opinions debating hotly. One support American for they overturned a dictatorial regime and liberated their people. Another oppose it for they think the real aim of American is just the oil, not the liberation of Iraq people.

I am going to get somewhat heated here I apologize in advance. We (me being an American) overthrow a dictatorial regime, yet China provides arms to Sudan for Oil. What is happening in Iraq is horrible right now, yet your governmet gives the government of Sudan and primarily the Janjaweed Militia (the most powerful anti-government rebels in Sudan, primarily Darfur,) the means to continue slaughtering each other on a scale that makes Iraq look like a peace rally gone bad.

I belive that the U.S. should have long ago engaged Africa economically if not solely for our own self interest in the confirmed oil reserves that exist in Africa (not only in Sudan, but Nigeria and other states as well) which your government (China) is readily taking advantage of. And what does the Middle Kingdom use to grease the wheels of commerce, the weapons of war.

Just as a precursor to the typical ATS SHOW ME THE FACTS

China's Involvement in Sudan: Arms and Oil

And to those who know me on ATS know I would not often quote Human Rights Watch

[edit on 31-5-2006 by Baphomet79]

donwhite,

I appreciate your revise. It's very helpful to me.

Earthlism
======

Nowadays world is different from any past age of history due to territory and nukes. Look back the past, expanding and uniting is a rule for countries to survive. If a country was strong enough, it would seek to expand its territory until it reached the limit of its power or techonology. People endeavor to improve weapons making them more powerful, and explore the world to take its aboundant resources. Expanding trends that once seemed unlimited. Unfortunately, the limit was reached in the late of 20th century.

Things changed rapidly in most recent two centuries, so fast, so much, exceeding the total of all the previous human history. All lands and oceans have been clarified their ownership, and there is no more unclaimed territory to expand. High technologies have made the earth seem smaller, and World is more as like as a large family.

A Chinese proverb, "Under an overturned nest, can there be unbroken eggs?"

The severe pollution of one country will damage other countries' circumstance. An outbreak of a disease in small district may cause global death. Nuclear warfare will destroy human and earth.

Traditional thought is out-of-date. War lost effect in conquering other countries. We can't also close the door and only care about domestic problem. If a war maniac gain a nuclear warhead, all of the world will suffer enormous loss.

For the global benefit and human responsibility, trends that require integration of the global. Stopping military competition, ending world hunger, fuel crisis and alternate, disease cure and prevention, etc. All of these to solved need unity and human action as a whole. In the long run, The United Nations members should be banded together more closely, eliminate distinction and turn to a UN which more like a country.

War are helpless to this. Plunder thought must stop. New means and peaceful way must be found. As leader, who must really consider all of the world people and don't narrow-minded to rob world resource to serve only one country, which will lead you nowhere.

I support that America overturned Saddam regime, for which was a dictatorial regime carring huge disaster to their people and which was almost impossible to unset by their own people in modern sociaty for high technology and powerful military were used to crackdown protester. But I doubt the real aim of American gevernment too, for I have heard that Saddam regime was initially supported by America.

I hope American will more careful of their reputation and more attentive to their action and shoulder the burden of human responsibility and set up a good example for the world. And I hope other countries will be united to America and dictatorial regime will all collapse and human will realize real peace and face our difficults as a whole.

Earth never boom as now and never danger as now. In Buddhism "bible", Buddha described "Mo fa shi dai", means "the last buddhist era". I don't know whether it means the ending of the human, but I can tell that, if we aren't careful of our action, there is a distinct possibility that human would walk to our end.

[edit on 31-5-2006 by Earthlism]

Yes we as America do need to set a good example which we are not doing well currently, butChina needs to as well. You are emerging as the regional power in Asia and in the coming years will rival American strength. Earthalism you preach the end of dictatorial regimes yet your government is cited as one of the most indemic abusers of human rights in the world. Given the fact that an admitted Chinese nationalist is allowed to post on this site in viewed in light of The PRC's rampant censorship of the internet makes, while albeit it a fascinating testimonial of mainland Chinese opinion.... in mine and likely others on this site, your account is suspect. I am not saying your statements are propaganda, but still....think of your audience.

Originally posted by Xenophobe
Anyways, I would like to make Yang Rou Chuan at home, and I can't find a recipe anywhere on the internet. Do you know which spices are used to make Yang Rou Chuan?

There are more specific imformation.

1、从超级市场买回新鲜的羊肉（可选购：鱼），竹签（可选种类：铁），调料：孜然粉，辣椒粉，盐，番茄酱等� �可根据自己口味选购）
2.然后就是把肉类切成小块，不要太大，要不然就不容易熟透。切好后拿竹签穿好，调料分好就可以了。
3.就是准备炭和烧烤的器具。（要是有可以用于烤煎炸的器具就省事多了）
4.就是烤的过程了（省略......）
5.吃完后记得把东西收好准备下次再用。（如果在郊外记得把垃圾带走保护环境）
注：如果比较懒得话，可以买商家直接做好调料的成品自己烤着吃，毕竟享受的是过程和结果嘛！

制作方法：
首先选择上好的小羊羔肉，（新疆的俗语通常是：没结过婚的小羊，呵呵，有些不雅）这种羊肉鲜嫩可口，烤起来 还不费力气！最主要的是吃起来绵香可口，如果再讲究的话，最好选择后腿上的五花肉，有肥有瘦的那种，那我们 制作时呢，要用锋利的刀把肉切成薄片串在特制的带木把的铁钎上，当然多数人也用铁质的把来烤，味道也很棒！
做好准备工作，需要一个专业的烤炉、若干个铁签子、孜然、咸盐、红辣子面，一些无烟煤块（为了减少污染吗， 价格比普通煤稍贵些）。

我们首先把煤块点着，出现一些明火，不要太大，在这个过程中，另外要做准备的就是穿羊肉了。不要以为这很简 单，它也是有讲究的，要肥瘦结合，这样肥肉上的油汁在熏烤的过程中会渗透到瘦肉上，不会使它太干，味道会油 香油香的，极为爽口。接下来，把穿好的羊肉串放在盛有无烟煤火炭的长方形厚铁皮炉上烤，并要不时翻动。以避 免烤的不均匀，不然味道就不地道了。待羊肉飘出熟肉香味并发出滋啦啦声响时，赶紧撒上辣子面、孜然、食盐， 稍做翻动即成。

Originally posted by donwhite
It is impossible for India and China to associate.

I agree.

Originally posted by mikesingh
So India’s catching up fast. It has the biggest middle class on earth, a huge educated English speaking work force that is also young and raring to go, and needless to say, an info tech super power.

This is a big advantadge helpful to competition, and many chinese acknowledge it.

Daedalus3, donwhite, mikesingh,

Your discussion is very excellent. I get many knowledge from it.

Originally posted by donwhite


I have read that China is buying (or building) 3 super quiet diesel submarines from some European shipbuilder. The only possible use China has for a submarine is to raise the ante over the Straits of Taiwan. America is in the 4th generation of post-diesel subs. I guess a pretty good short range shallow depth diesel sub costs about $250 million. 70 man crew.

[edit on 5/30/2006 by donwhite]

ummm. could you post a source on that?The only present connection I can see is the chinese reverse engg. the Agosta 90B subs acquired by the Pakistan Navy. Other than that I wasn't aware of any substantiated evidence of a European sub deal with China.


Earthlism, could you elaborate WHY you think it impossible for India and China to associate?
Also do you stay on the mainland?
And I am perplexed by your take on the removal of Saddam Regime from Iraq..
I would go so far as to say that the majority of chinese would not support your view on the issue.
Actually my main question is : Do stay in China?



[edit on 31-5-2006 by Daedalus3]

Originally posted by ceci2006
Earthlism, that is amazing. That is why the Chinese people looked upon the Qing dynasty as a mark of shame. Is that not so?

Textbook and Official papers never admited, but more and more adults learned it.

Originally posted by ceci2006
Then when you discuss the different ethnic minorities in China (with the Han people being the largest), how are the other ethnic minorities in your country treated? Are there descendants of the Manchu people today? How are they treated--because of their place in history?
And I have always wanted to know the problem between China and Tibet. Would you please explain this further?

The other ethnic minorities are treated as no different from Han people. There are no serious ethnic clash in China.
Descendants of the Manchu people are mostly living in their original area, northeastern of China.
In late of Qing Dynasty, conflicts with foreign countries concealed domestic inconsistency. There were no retorsion aimed to Manchu happening.
Tibet is no different from other provinces. Xijiang province is more unrestful than Tibet. But as I said, Chinese government is good at control states and people tightly.

[edit on 1-6-2006 by Earthlism]

hearthlism,
i am very sorry for this question, but i am serious about it, it is not a joke or hirony.

Do the chinese people have graveyards? what the chinese do to the bodys of the dead normaly?, burn?, buried?, feed the voltures?(like the Tibetans?)
i ask this because i don't remeber to see or red nothing about this in all my life in books, movies, etc. in fact i don't recall about nothing related to chinese graveyards.

thx in advance.

Originally posted by ceci2006
And how do people in Hong Kong see their fellow citizens in mainland China after the transfer back to the Chinese government in 1997?

Japan took over China (naming it Manchuko) at one point of time and then pulled out. I understand about the atrocities that happened when the Japanese occupied China. That was shameful and horrible. Even now do the Chinese people hate the Japanese? I wonder why that is so because even in America, there are some Chinese-Americans who utterly despise the Nisei and the Sansei (second and third generation Japanese Americans) still for what happened. Has Japan ever apologized to China? Or, has Japan ever made restitution to the Chinese for what has happened?

And what about the citizens who are "half-Chinese and half-Japanese" ? How are they treated in Chinese society? I saw Ann Hui's film "Song of the Exile" (Ketu qiuhen) a while back. She had dealt with this subject matter.
[edit on 29-5-2006 by ceci2006]

For there is no free talk environment, I don't know how they think us. If there were some complain, I think I wouldn't heard it. Every newspaper and media will be censored before launching.

What the Chinese mainstream media most queried is why Japan don't have a genuine sense of guilt, for they persist to worship War-Shrine every year.

Another reason is Chinese victims were never recieved civilian compensation from Japan. Plus Chinese government initially gave up official compensation, there were no real compensation to chinese victims at all.

Last reason is assumed by me. Japan is a Chinese competitor. If Japan were weak and backward and posed no threat to Chinese, there wouldn't had strained tensions between the two countries.

About citizens who are "half-Chinese and half-Japanese", as you know, Chinese have suffered ten years disasters. what capable happened were already happened then. I have no concept about this now.

[edit on 1-6-2006 by Earthlism]

Originally posted by Daedalus3
1) Do you stay in China and if so where?

2) What do the chinese(the common man) feel about Tibet/Dalai Lama?

3) What is the general opinion of the mainlanders about India?
Thanks..

I'm in Shanghai.

Actually, I have no clear conception about Dalai Lama, because I seldom heard of him. Government censored information and I know this problem very lately and still no enough knowledge.

In Chinese Forum, most participants don't support Dalai Lama, because they don't want to see China spliting.

India is a competitor of China, but they ain't comparable to China till now. That is most of Chinese understand.

[edit on 1-6-2006 by Earthlism]