posted by D/D

Yellow dog democrat? I'm taking it that you're jesting.

Just a bit of trivia tossed into the mix.... [Edited by Don W]

In the Upper South, especially Kentucky, Democrats often affirmed their party loyalty by declaring - often with an oath, “I’d vote for a yellow dog before I would vote for a Republican!”

Where allowed, good Democrats invariably voted the straight party ticket.



[edit on 5/27/2006 by donwhite]

3 pages of replies I hope you can get back to me.

A protester when Bush and the chinese president were in the US together. She was going on about a banned religion in China that had maybe a questionable practice maybe considered occult or metaphysics. What is that religion?

Thanks!

Earthlism

First I would like to say what a brave and caring individual you are. Brave, because as you say, you don't know who may be seeing this and it may be detrimental to you. In fact that the first thing I thought when I clicked into this thread. Caring, because I can tell that you really do love your country. I’m sure you dream of a country more for the people. As you can see by the way some posters here talk, they do not appreciate where they live or the freedoms they have. They snub their noses at the very people that fought for that freedom they enjoy. They cannot even show the slightest bit of respect to thier own President and that is a sad state of affairs. No we are not perfect here in America nor does our government or its leadership make the best decisions all the time. But I do believe that our President is doing the best he can as most have done. You can never make all the people happy nor can you dig a government out of years and years of winding red tape. I say until troops are marching down the street and crushing a demonstration or people are afraid for their lives if they speak their mind, then we aren't doing all that bad. Earthlism, we Americans are quick to spit on the very Liberty that we have been provided via our Fathers and their Fathers and their Fathers before them. We have a holiday coming up called Memorial Day and we would all do well to remember what this country was built on, as well as who built it. I can definitely say that it wasn’t the liberal college professor at USA University. I tell you these things so you will know that many of us love our country too, even with its many faults.

I would like to ask you, how does the average Chinese person view America regarding our Foreign policy in places such as Iraq, Afghanistan and most recently Iran? Do you see us as world police or as nosy neighbors? Do you think we are doing what's right for the Iraqi people? Also, America has a long standing law to defend Taiwan against invasion from aggressors. Does the thought of possible future conflict with America cause concern among Chinese people?

Personally, I have no ill will toward any countries people and many of us pray that we could all find common ground. However, many people are conditioned to fear and hate America, sometimes by the media outlets that operate under our very own flag. Many believe that Islam and their extreme factions are the greatest threat facing the world. How do you view this?

On the Economic side from your vantage point, does the average person view America as an Economic partner of China or do they see America as just a rich customer that boosts the Chinese Economy?

My apologies if you have already answered some of these questions. I read most of this thread but not all.

Finally I would just like to welcome you and let you know that you have a friend here. From the looks of it, you have made a few.

Be Well & God Bess My Friend!

It's a uni-polar world now, what with America ruling the roost as the only super power.
Now we have two emerging giants, the mighty dragon and the marauding elephant, ie, China and India.

Do you suppose they can ever combine economically and militarily to pose a credible economic and military threat to the US of A and dethrone it from its pedestal as the number one super power within a couple of decades?
My bet is that America will be hard put to even compete with either country singly within the next 50 years!

posted by mikesingh
It's a uni-polar world now, with America ruling as the only super power . . we have two emerging giants, the mighty dragon and the marauding elephant, i.e., China and India . . can [China and India] ever combine to pose a credible economic and military threat to the US of A and dethrone it from its pedestal as the number one super power within a couple of decades? [Edited by Don W]

Let’s look at energy consumption, which is the bottom line measure of a world power. We hear the US uses 22 mb/d (million barrels a day). The world is said to produce 85 mb/d. The US, therefore, uses 25% of the world’s crude oil. China is said to use 3 mb/d and India 1 mb/d. China is in the midst of getting access to much more energy. Treaties are already made with both Russia and Iran. China may well be able to double or triple its available energy in the coming decade. The Three Gorges Dam will produce more electricity than the next two dams in the world combined.

India is not in such good shape as China. First, by 2030 or 2040, India’s population will exceed China’s, making it the most populated country in the world. Like it or not, the one family, one child policy of Mao Zed ong has made modern China possible. Indeed, this is a policy India should look into.

India occupies less than 1 million square miles. China is like the US’s Lower 48, about 3 million square miles. Earth-wise, China is in the temperate zone while India is in the sub-tropical zone. The tropics may be good for vacations, but there are many problems associated with excess heat that will hinder India and which China does not have. I guess I’m saying that India will never emerge as a counter-point to either China or the US of A.

I also think Hinduism is weaker as a nation-state building philosophy, especially when compared to the vastly superior Chinese Confucius philosophy. In fact, Hinduism is counter productive, IMO. It is impossible for India and China to associate. It’s called the Himalayas. Or, Beijing is closer to San Francisco than it is to New Delhi. Well, so it seems to me.

I am sorry to see, Mikesingh - are you a Sikh? - that you so closely equate being the world’s No. 1 with military power. Surely as the threat to humanity increases - see North Korea and Iran - we must get atom bombs under control. Somehow.

My bet is that America will be hard put to even compete with either country singly within the next 50 years!

I disagree. Unless Geo W blows this climate change thing, we have the world’s biggest and best watered bread basket sitting between the Rockies on the west and the Appalachians on the east. 1.5 million square miles of the best suited land on the planet. Monkeys could grow bumper crops there! Bottom line is any country must feed its people. And, the world’s supply of water is also a finite resource. And America (and Canada) has more of that than any other place. Just imagine the North American continent in 2050 with Mexico as the 51st state and Canada as Number 52! Now there’s a super power!

Don
Dr Watson are you? You hit the nail partially on the head!
You’re right, but I don’t support a turban or beard! Too darn hot and sweaty in the sub continent as you have rightly mentioned!

Undoubtedly, your analysis was pretty interesting and thought provoking. Yes, India did have a ‘Hindu rate of growth’ till the early 90s. But look at it now - 8 to 9% and growing, with China at 10%. The projected growth rate of America up to 2010 is just 2.29%!! So India’s catching up fast. It has the biggest middle class on earth, a huge educated English speaking work force that is also young and raring to go, and needless to say, an info tech super power.

It is also a responsible nuclear weapon state, which has the 4th largest, and one of the best-trained armed forces in the world.

Yes it has warts, plenty of them, but who doesn’t?

You mentioned comparative energy consumption patterns of America, which is excessive to say the least, and India.
Energy Security rests on two principles. The first, to use the least amount of energy to provide services and cut down energy losses. The second, to secure access to all sources of energy including coal, oil and gas supplies worldwide, till the end of the fossil fuel era, which is fast approaching.
And so the necessity of consummating the Indo-American civilian nuclear deal, which will make India self sufficient in nuclear power generation by 2020.

For almost two decades now the Americans rise which they take as their birthright, has stalled or at least slowed dramatically.
A nation's military strength rests on its economic strength, but economic strength tends to whither when a nation devotes too many resources to the military. ''Imperial overstretch,'' Kennedy called it. The world has changed since 1987, and the danger of the United States bankrupting itself through military overextension seems a lot more real. Furthermore, the thought of losing their status as a military ''great power'' with defense commitments all over the world does not traumatize most Americans, I suspect.
What does traumatize Americans is the thought of economic stagnation as a permanent condition. But there's another conundrum: the politics of decline produce exactly the wrong formula for reversing the economics of decline. The result: as decline becomes more evident, it also becomes harder to correct.

So what does the future hold for the US of A? There are a lot of imponderables, Don, which you have not taken into account. You are formatting the future from the past that has little relevance now.

posted by mikesingh

Don, you are formatting the future from the past that has little relevance now.
[Edited by Don W]

Mike, I know you are right. But it is so hard to “un-learn” what served me (and us) so well, so long. But I know what you say is true.

Your analysis was interesting and thought provoking. Yes, India did have a ‘Hindu rate of growth’ till the 90s. But look at it now - 8 to 9% and growing, with China at 10%. The projected growth rate of America up to 2010 is just 2.29%!!

Well, as to India and China. I’ve always held to the view that China stagnated for 3000 years because of the pictographs they use for their recorded language. More, China was so populated and so vast a place, that regional dialects made it next to impossible to communicate. I know that has been remedied for the most part, but as slavery still haunts America so also this “impossible” communications still hurts China.

As for India, I’m especially gratified most Indians have the decency to speak English. Over my lifetime, I’ve enrolled in Spanish, French, German and Russian. In each case, my teacher warned me to drop out before a grade was mandatory. I’m lucky to be mono-lingual. Thank you, India.

India’s catching up fast. It has the biggest middle class on earth, a huge educated English speaking work force that is also young and raring to go, and needless to say, an info tech super power. It is also a responsible nuclear weapon state, which has the 4th largest, and one of the best-trained armed forces in the world.

I accept your characterization of India’s progress. I also agree India has been a responsible nuclear power. As a matter of fact, the US is the only nuclear power that talks constantly about using the nuclear option. If we can make it until January 20, 2009, that will be corrected. Geez! How I love parliamentary governments! Or, watch America. Power without accountability.

As to the large Indian Army. I’ve already said the Chinese Army - PLA - is intended for domestic order, not foreign adventures. If Kashmir and Pakistan were off the table, do you think India would keep its Army the same size? And if Pakistan gave up its nukes, would India also?

American energy consumption is excessive to say the least. Energy Security rests on two principles. First, use the least amount of energy to provide services and cut down energy losses. Second, secure access to all sources of energy including coal, oil and gas supplies worldwide, till the end of the fossil fuel era, which is fast approaching. The Indo-American (say privatized) nuclear deal will make India self sufficient in nuclear power generation by 2020.

I think the world is coming to the conclusion we will just ignore the issue of spent nuclear fuel disposal, so it looks to be “full speed ahead” on nuclear plants, including many in the US.

A nation's military strength rests on its economic strength, but economic strength tends to whither when a nation devotes too many resources to the military. ''Imperial overstretch,'' Kennedy called it. The world has changed since 1987, and the danger of the United States bankrupting itself through military over extension seems a lot more real.

I’m not being flip, but the US is approaching the “banker’s nightmare” scenario. This is when the banker realizes he has extended too much credit and is now unable to foreclose on the debtor. After all, the banker must ultimately sell the collateral to recoup his advances (now called losses.) If you suddenly dumped $9 T. in paper on the world’s financial markets, it would all fall down. The US debt is so large no one can force collection. And, wizard of wizards, the US needs to keep borrowing to keep this “thing” afloat!

I suspect the thought of losing their status as a military ''great power'' over the world does not traumatize most Americans. What does traumatize Americans is the thought of economic stagnation as a permanent condition. But there's another conundrum: the politics of decline produce exactly the wrong formula for reversing the economics of decline. The result: as decline becomes more evident, it also becomes harder to correct. So what does the future hold for the US of A? There are a lot of imponderables, Don, which you have not taken into account.

Dam, that sounds like a reprimand! Actually, you are right, Mike, but Geez, I only have 6000 characters to use here.

Originally posted by ceci2006
I would like to ask you further about the Qing dynasty. I had also heard about the "Han" people. Who are they?
--Ceci

Qing Dynasty is the last imperial dynasty of China.Qing Dynasty, was a dynasty founded by the Manchu clan Aisin Gioro, in what is today northeast China, expanded into China and the surrounding territories, establishing the Empire of the Great Qing (Traditional Chinese: 大清國 ).Declared as the Later Jin Dynasty in 1616, it changed its name in 1636 to "Qing", and became the ruler of all of China in 1644, completing the Manchu conquest. During its reign, the Qing Dynasty consolidated its grip on China, integrated with Chinese culture, and saw the height of Imperial Chinese influence. However, its military power weakened during the 1800s, and faced with international pressure, massive rebellions and defeats in wars, the Qing Dynasty declined after the mid-19th century. The Qing Dynasty was overthrown following the Xinhai Revolution when Empress Dowager Longyu, faced with massive opposition, abdicated on behalf of the last emperor, Puyi, on February 12, 1912.

China has 56 ethnic groups. Han people is the majority accounted for 92% of Chinese population. The Qing Dynasty founded not by the Han Chinese, but the Manchus, today an ethnic minority in China. A semi-nomadic people, the Manchus first rose to prominence in what is now northeastern China. The Manchu state was formed by Nurhaci in the early 17th century. Originally a vassal under the Ming Dynasty, he declared himself Emperor of the Later Jin in 1609.

Originally posted by Xenophobe
Anyways, I would like to make Yang Rou Chuan at home, and I can't find a recipe anywhere on the internet. Do you know which spices are used to make Yang Rou Chuan?

haha !~
very simple!~
the most important recipe is cumin, you can find it at any Asian Grocery
put some cumin powder and salt or you can add some spicy powder on the lamb leg meat (of course small pieces ), then put on the BBQ shelfer, or in the oven!~ 10 minutes i guess

some may put ginger powder, garlic powder, onion mince and cooking wine mixed together with lamb meat for 20 minutes,then BBQ it

good luck

Originally posted by asmilesnail

the most important recipe is cumin, you can find it at any Asian Grocery
put some cumin powder and salt or you can add some spicy powder on the lamb leg meat (of course small pieces ), then put on the BBQ shelfer, or in the oven!~ 10 minutes i guess

Aha! someone in the know!
Hey, thanks for the info asmilesnail!
Do you think that the spicy powder is just plain red chili powder?

Around Qing Dynasty, there are much more issues happened and influenced modern China.

Manchu changed wearings, conventions, Knowlodge taught in schools and many many other traditional stamps in China, and we called it disrupted the sequence of Chinese civilization. Now the asserted chinese traditional wearings isn't the real traditional wearings, it just wearings of Qing Dynasty. It's satiric that if you want to see the traditional wearing in Chinese Tang Dynasty, going to Japanese is the best choice. Japanese reserved civilizations of Chinese Tang Dynasty, which was lost in China.

Japan ever studied Chinese history carefully and they were so familiar with it that they reached the conclusion that they had the ability to conquer the whole China, though they were much smaller. Why? because Manchu had done it once.

They were almost succeed. Many men didn't admit that, If no help of American and Russia, If there were only Japan and China, China wouldn't had won the battle and would been conquered again. And then, Japanese nationalities would be wroten as belong to Chinese nationalities in the history books, just as now Chinese did.

[edit on 29-5-2006 by Earthlism]

Originally posted by donwhite



Let’s look at energy consumption, which is the bottom line measure of a world power. We hear the US uses 22 mb/d (million barrels a day). The world is said to produce 85 mb/d. The US, therefore, uses 25% of the world’s crude oil. China is said to use 3 mb/d and India 1 mb/d. China is in the midst of getting access to much more energy. Treaties are already made with both Russia and Iran. China may well be able to double or triple its available energy in the coming decade. The Three Gorges Dam will produce more electricity than the next two dams in the world combined.

err.. sorry to bust your thread earthlism, but I have questions for you too at the end.
dowhite the per day consumption is more like 2.5 mb/d and 5mbd/d.
India though not so overt in securing energy supplies is also in the process of doing so.Deals have finalised with Russia(Sakhalin, here China was disallowed), and there is a lot of focus on the central asian republics, to the extent of setting up Indian military facilities in the region.
Also India has a long term objective of using Thorium in fast breeder reactors as fuel to 'fuel' more reactors(hence the name fast breeder) with plutonium.India has half of the world's known thorium reserves.

India is not in such good shape as China. First, by 2030 or 2040, India’s population will exceed China’s, making it the most populated country in the world. Like it or not, the one family, one child policy of Mao Zed ong has made modern China possible. Indeed, this is a policy India should look into.

Indeed and India is trying to follow policies which will reduce birth rates in a much lesser 'draconian' fashion. But in the case of a democracy these policies are much more difficult to implement. Indeed democracy is the way to go, and India accepts all compromises of the same willingly.

India occupies less than 1 million square miles. China is like the US’s Lower 48, about 3 million square miles. Earth-wise, China is in the temperate zone while India is in the sub-tropical zone. The tropics may be good for vacations, but there are many problems associated with excess heat that will hinder India and which China does not have. I guess I’m saying that India will never emerge as a counter-point to either China or the US of A.

One could argue that about 40-50% of chinese landscape is not fertile, arid and rugged.
India enjoys a climate cross-section in that 1 million square miles that is probably not witnessed anywhere else in the world.
India's role in the future is a point of much debate not appropriate for this thread.

I also think Hinduism is weaker as a nation-state building philosophy, especially when compared to the vastly superior Chinese Confucius philosophy. In fact, Hinduism is counter productive, IMO. It is impossible for India and China to associate. It’s called the Himalayas. Or, Beijing is closer to San Francisco than it is to New Delhi. Well, so it seems to me.

India is not a hindu state. Nor has any govt. that has been in power ever employed any overtly hindu agendas. Why? Because its a democracy. There's a parliment where every community/ideology gets to voice its opinion, including the politburo commies. India doesn't wish to align with or against China. India views its future in ASEAN and in CARS.It envisions better ties with Europe and the US.
It is upto China to view India as a threat or a colleague.
I am sorry to see, Mikesingh - are you a Sikh? - that you so closely equate being the world’s No. 1 with military power. Surely as the threat to humanity increases - see North Korea and Iran - we must get atom bombs under control. Somehow.

I disagree. Unless Geo W blows this climate change thing, we have the world’s biggest and best watered bread basket sitting between the Rockies on the west and the Appalachians on the east. 1.5 million square miles of the best suited land on the planet. Monkeys could grow bumper crops there! Bottom line is any country must feed its people. And, the world’s supply of water is also a finite resource. And America (and Canada) has more of that than any other place. Just imagine the North American continent in 2050 with Mexico as the 51st state and Canada as Number 52! Now there’s a super power!

Water is not a problem in India or China. Maybe getting it around still is but that is fixable.

Earthlism, that is amazing. That is why the Chinese people looked upon the Qing dynasty as a mark of shame. Is that not so?

Then when you discuss the different ethnic minorities in China (with the Han people being the largest), how are the other ethnic minorities in your country treated? Are there descendants of the Manchu people today? How are they treated--because of their place in history?

And I have always wanted to know the problem between China and Tibet. Would you please explain this further?

And how do people in Hong Kong see their fellow citizens in mainland China after the transfer back to the Chinese government in 1997?

Japan took over China (naming it Manchuko) at one point of time and then pulled out. I understand about the atrocities that happened when the Japanese occupied China. That was shameful and horrible. Even now do the Chinese people hate the Japanese? I wonder why that is so because even in America, there are some Chinese-Americans who utterly despise the Nisei and the Sansei (second and third generation Japanese Americans) still for what happened. Has Japan ever apologized to China? Or, has Japan ever made restitution to the Chinese for what has happened?

And what about the citizens who are "half-Chinese and half-Japanese" ? How are they treated in Chinese society? I saw Ann Hui's film "Song of the Exile" (Ketu qiuhen) a while back. She had dealt with this subject matter.

I again give you good wishes and continued luck in your studies of English and scholarship. I thank you very much for your answers.

I also appreciate asmilesnail for deeper insight into the Qing dynasty and the Han people. I am fascinated by Chinese history and society. And this information helps.

Take care,

--Ceci







[edit on 29-5-2006 by ceci2006]

Originally posted by Houtchens
I have a question about religion. From what I understand, the communist government only allows religion that supports the government. There is a movie called "China Cry" about a woman who seeks to be free from this, and has been seperated from her husband and put into prison because they believe in God. It is a powerful story of love, hurt, and joy. My question is: how have you seen religion being hurt in your country?

Here is my prayer for you: I pray that God would bless you greatly, and all of your family. That He would watch over you and protect you and be with you. And that you would know God's love, which is greater than all the money and power in the world.
[edit on 27-5-2006 by Houtchens]

Houtchens,

Thank you very much for your pray!

Max gave a picture of ideal Communist society. It just a picture, not belief.

Emperor existed in China for almost five thousand years. Rather than Communist belief, Chinese took Mao as emperor and fell down in worship.

I haven't felt that religion were hurt in China. When I was a child, there are magnificent annual Catholic ceremony in my hometown. There are still many Catholics now. I don't know which branch they belong to, and I don't know whether they feel oppressed.

I personally incline toward Buddhism. We can worship our idol in our home or go to temples to pray. I did never feel what I was prohibited in my belief.

Maybe things is different to Catholics due to its special relations with Vatican. Which I don't know.

The real emergency is, there isn't a belief seemed reasonable enough to win most of Chinese belief. Most belief is not pure and relatived to business. People lost belief and didn't know what should be stuffed up the empty, which is why Falong Kong appeared.


[edit on 29-5-2006 by Earthlism]

Steve,

Thank you for your encouragement!

donwhite,

You are more familiar with Taiwan's history than I am.

sorry earthlism I forgot to post my questions for you !!

1) Do you stay in China and if so where?

2) What do the chinese(the common man) feel about Tibet/Dalai Lama?

3) What is the general opinion of the mainlanders about India?

Thanks..

Earthalism, renshi ni wo hen gaoxing!

(I apologize for the pinyin, I have a new computer now and have not downloaded the MME Mandarin characters yet to type)I just finished my undergraduate (less than a week ago) in East Asian Studies and Chinese Lanuage in the U.S. I did not read all the posts, as it is late at night here on the Eastern Coast of the U.S., but one of the first responses mentioned the SCO. How do you see the Shanghai Cooperation Organization evolving in the coming years? Given military exercises between China, Russia and the neighbouring "-stan states" do you possibly forsee a rise in the region of perhaps a NATO (North Atlantic Treaty Organization) type alliance forming? I would forsee such an alliance as inherently being against U.S. foreign policy interests, simply based on the issue of energy. China is tapping areas we to date do not, such as Sudan and othe African nations, as well as current interest in the Gulf of Mexico. Also taking into account a Caspian Sea pipeline from Russia to China.
duibuqi....keshi a rambling question, but one that holds great interest to me.


xiexie, wanan