Yes and I might add .......Judas Iscariot was a beloved Apostle of Christ.......
Look where it got him!!!

“’But when you do a charitable deed, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, that your charitable deed may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will Himself reward you openly.’” (Matthew 6:3-4)

It is possible to be a moral and civil person and still reject creation.

We must be aware of this.

I have known luciferians and agnostics that were good people but not god's people.

Also I still ask again and again what is the purpose of the bizarre rituals that freemasons and those of other secret societies engage in?

we know the background to the catholic church but not to the secret societies. (well I do but I will play dumb here)

I dont know what the purpose of the rituals are, but there is always a open bible on the altar in a masonic temple/lodge.

What i do know is that as an organisation, freemasonry is morally blameless

And as an organisation/organised religion, the anglican synod has a lot to answer for...

one might say the acts of individual ministers/preists does not reflect on the whole (i think it does)

but wasnt it the anglican faith as a whole that recently admitted a transexual who is now a woman as a bishop?? not only that, it has now become fashionable among anglican ministers to be open practising homosexuals

Ashlar,

but are not masons leaders of their community?

they often weild great power.

well used to be that way. Now that masonry is 'open' to scrutiny I know that it is a 'gutted' animal.

what has it been replaced with?

A freind of mine [who is a master mason] recently described masonry as "judaism for gentiles"

honestly i have mixed feelings about different aspects of masonry.

*The protocols of the learned elders of zion*, describes freemasonry as "a theatrical display where men gather to throw sand in the eyes of their brethren"

I have very high regards for many aspects of masonry, but i have a higher regard still for *The protocols of the learned elders of zion*, so i am conflicted.

But these years we are living in, are sure to become interesting. I am anxious to see if the future brings revolutions and anarchy.

The Protocals of the elders of Zion is a know Hoax it is all BS put forth by secret police under the Czar of Russia. It is not worth the paper its printed on!

As for Masons they may well be Judism for gentiles but guess what thats what Jesus was after to begin with!
Christianity was hijacked by Paul (who never met Jesus)!

grenadier your idea about paul, is what hitler said also.

As for the protocols, tell me sir, did you read them?

or are you repeating something by someone who hasent read them either

BTW i dont agree with paul hijacking christianity and cannot find any evidence to suggest this

you havent read it have you, then how do you think yourself qualified to judge? stop pasting those links, there are at least 1 million links that deny the protocols i know this already. seeing that they cannot argue with the content they try to dispute the source,

Read it, and then debate it. not the other way around

besides, the link from the church of the subgenius seems to be in favor of the protocols

I am pleased that you dont doubt that they are a work of genius, because this is my only point.

The are a marvel greater than nostradamus by far, and thats the proof for me they are authentic

As for the dialogue in hell between michavelli and montesquieux, i have been looking to read it, but cannot find it.

ah cest en francais, ca va etre dificile a lire!

Originally posted by Ashlar

*The protocols of the learned elders of zion*, describes freemasonry as "a theatrical display where men gather to throw sand in the eyes of their brethren"

The protocols are a forgery based on a french Napoleon satire (Dialogues en Enfer entre Montesqieu et Machiavelle or something). Some of the sentences are copied word for word so there's no doubt it's a fake. But I would have to agree about that description of masonry - at least that's what it used to be: a social club for ambitious brown-nosers basically.


[Edited on 26-11-2003 by Helioform]

there is very little contained within the protocols that is easy to disagree with, yet everyone disagrees with their origin.

why cant we debate the content regardless of origin

A point that many are missing here is that the reason for a lot of attacks on Masonry is that it is the basis for many "Free" countries, including ours, (USA.)

When you distroy the basis of anything, it is easier to distroy it. As always, there is more here than is obvious.

No I havent read the Protocals because they are a fake So why invest time in an obvious anti-semetic forgery!

As for my statement about Paul Hi-jacking the Christian chruch I may have not put that in quite the mannor I ment it let me clarify.
Paul didnt hi-jack the Chruch he INVENTED it the message of Jesus was ment for the Jews of Judea in 40AD and not for anyone else. It is clear from the way the Catholic church veiws women that modern Christianity is nothing more than Pauls ideas and views and a tool of oppression! Paul took a message and dressed it up borrowing from other religions of the time (Zorastorism, Mithraism (sp) ). It was a successful attempt to sell the package to all the non-jews in the Roman empire. The cult of the Emporer was on the decline and Paul new people were in search of something to believe in. Now did Paul see far into the future at what would become of his cult? I doubt it I think largely he just so wanted to be a leader that he built his own flock!

If I had to guess who made that document, I would say it was put together by a some kind of pre-Nazi cult. In Holy Blood Holy Grail, they mention the Priory of Sion and its relation with the fascist P2 masonic lodge. They claim that the protocols were probably written by the PoS.

Hitler used the protocols (even nazi supporter and mason Henry Ford believed in them) as a justification for his murdering of Jews. The document was quite timely for what was to follow.

Grenadier, have you played the game lemmings? do you see yourself in the game?

how can you say something is fake that you know nothing about!
dont read them, they would be wasted on you.

To the others, the bottom line remains that they are a work of genius