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How Can There Not Be A God

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posted on May, 30 2006 @ 03:15 PM
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The Cross and the crown were given to Jesus by the romans not by God




posted on May, 30 2006 @ 03:17 PM
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Originally posted by Mrknighttime32
do you really believe what you say or what?

Do you think I'm kidding?

You're asking questions, and I'm providing possible alternative answers.
The very fact that I can offer plausible alternatives to your questions is a direct answer to your earliest question as to how people can believe there's no God.
Because God is not the only possible answer to all the "whys" and "hows" of the Universe.
A billion Buddhists can't all be wrong.
So until somebody can provide me with some good reasons why "God" is a better answer than the other ones, (including proof of the existence of this thing or animal or whatever "God" is supposed to be) I'll withhold my decision on what to believe.

At this point, I know I exist. "Cognito ergo sum." I know other people exist. I know that my thoughts can move atoms. I have a pretty good idea that time is not linear (per Richard Feynman). And so on. So if I'm going to make a determination based on reasoning about things I already know are true or suspect to be true, my explanation about consciousness creating the universe in the past from the future already has several points in its favor compared to this poorly-defined God you go on about.



posted on May, 30 2006 @ 03:27 PM
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Originally posted by Mrknighttime32
The Cross and the crown were given to Jesus by the romans not by God


Hmmmz i never said it wasnt lol



SouLJa



posted on May, 30 2006 @ 03:39 PM
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A billion Buddhists can't all be wrong.

lol why not? same as a billion christians or a billion catholics or muslims,sikhs so on so forth! God, Buddha, Yahweh, Jehovah, Jah so on so forth are all but literal references or names.

"Whatever you think I am, or want me to be, I am." Which is to say that 'The Word' of God is constantly twisted and mis-interpreted by various religions and cult-groups, for their own material gains, but in reality, it has only one interpretation, which is easily found by studying 'The Word' without any pre-conceived ideas (I AM THAT I AM*)


SouLJa



posted on May, 30 2006 @ 03:46 PM
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Originally posted by Enkidu

Originally posted by Mrknighttime32
do you really believe what you say or what?

Do you think I'm kidding?

You're asking questions, and I'm providing possible alternative answers.
The very fact that I can offer plausible alternatives to your questions is a direct answer to your earliest question as to how people can believe there's no God.
Because God is not the only possible answer to all the "whys" and "hows" of the Universe.
A billion Buddhists can't all be wrong.
So until somebody can provide me with some good reasons why "God" is a better answer than the other ones, (including proof of the existence of this thing or animal or whatever "God" is supposed to be) I'll withhold my decision on what to believe.

At this point, I know I exist. "Cognito ergo sum." I know other people exist. I know that my thoughts can move atoms. I have a pretty good idea that time is not linear (per Richard Feynman). And so on. So if I'm going to make a determination based on reasoning about things I already know are true or suspect to be true, my explanation about consciousness creating the universe in the past from the future already has several points in its favor compared to this poorly-defined God you go on about.


Ok I get what you are saying, but tell me why you dont believe are you scared to believe.



posted on May, 30 2006 @ 03:58 PM
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Originally posted by Mrknighttime32
But tell me why you dont believe are you scared to believe.


I don't believe, because I don't have to. Is it absolutely necessary for me to pick which "side" I'm on? There is not enough evidence and logical proof to convince me that such a thing exists. So why should I believe in it? You obviously have lower standards of proof than I do. And I can only assume you feel uncomfortable about the notion of there being no God, as displayed in this tread.

As for fear, what's there to be afraid of?



posted on May, 30 2006 @ 04:06 PM
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thats just it, i do believe in god, i use the name god to express it cus its easier than using a reference like the tetragrammaton, so people can relate to it.

When it comes to god its a matter of what u believe god to be and yr expectations of what would be considered proof of his existence! i dont look to how i got here anymore or how it all began, imo its not as important as the fact that you are here and you have a purpose, we all do!

We are all learners and teachers seeking to perfect the imperfections of perfection!

Ill keep it simple if god is good and the devil is evil i walk with god!

If all god ever were was the intention of good in the world and a mans heart, then thats enuff for me because i live with love and truth, what more could i ask for!

The mistakes ive made on my journey and bad things ive done are failed trials with the devil, but ive learnt from them and they have brought me closer to god!

"You cant stand on the same piece of water twice".
"You have to sin to be Saved"

SouLJa



posted on May, 30 2006 @ 04:08 PM
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Originally posted by SouLJa
Anyone with an ounce of sense knows that knowledge is power and we have been hand fed in means of control.


Yep more so with the church.

They burnt all the stuff that did not support the contrived view of things then built the fable.

The whole thing about keeping services etc in Latin was to reinforce "knowledge is power" over the humble commoner. I still believe that the volume of work would have required immense study, a task taking a lifetime not something an illiterate unlanded peasant was going to do in his short lifetime.

Of those left, well they were part of the vicarii (or whatever) and if they were not, they could always buy back their sinful debauchery in gold, the real master of the church. They worshipped gold more than their god (easy mistake to make only one letter different). Hence the atrocities of the south Americas in order to fill the coffers they butchered innocent indigenous peoples.

It is my personal belief that man created god in his image and not the other way round.

The worship of a single god is nothing but enslavement of people by the fear of damnation. If there were a god versus satan scenario then I side with satan. He likes all the things I like....well mostly. If the height of god worship is sitting in a cold monastery wearing a sack and hessian underwear, with the only oral utterances are to speak in a dead tongue about someone you never met....keep it my friend.



posted on May, 30 2006 @ 05:13 PM
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Seeing as how this question is seemingly directed towards the christian god, my question is why your god?

Out of all the god's worshipped today and in the past and the one's in the future, why the one you worship?

I'm sure I'll hear answer's such as personal proof, but I'm 99% positive your parents were of the same religous background as you are. You were raised to believe in your god. But let's entertain the personal proof BS.

You have personal proof of your god.

Alieosidja has personal proof of his god who is completly utterly totally unrelated to your god.

Who do I believe? You or Alieosidja? I have proof you both are just following in mum 'n pop's footsteps. I have proof that the christian god worship is only 2,000 years old. I have proof that Alieosidja's god worship is 4,000 years old.

People today who call themselve's christians aren't the same practicing christians as even as little as 600 years ago. The christians today are what I like to call hypocrits. Then they post these idiotic questions like why don't you believe. It's nothing short of a duh common sense issue that is just simply to hard for these people to grasp. Possibly due to a variety of psychological issues stemmed off from believing in this fairy tale BS nonsense. We live in the 21st century ffs.

My question is, WHY do we still have such superstitous belief systems? I half way already know the answer, but ffs ... you'd figure people would start learning abit more about common sense. Then again, we do have all these church's who feel it's their duty to brainwash people.



posted on May, 30 2006 @ 05:27 PM
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Originally posted by JSquared
masterp, some of your statements are kind of illogical....


They are not. Mathematical logic is not equal to human logic. Humans actually do not work by logic, but by pattern matching, i.e. propabilities.



improbable....maybe...but not impossible..Yes, humans are living organisms, but we have plenty of differences when compared to animals....take for example, animals have natural defense systems...ie:shells, regenerating limbs, etc.....humans have no natural defenses.....we have the ability to create defenses.....


Nope. Not all animals have shells or regenerating limps. Humans have nails, just like chimps and monkeys.



No soul?....How do you know?....sounds like you are jumping to a conclusion without any evidence presented.....


It has been proved that altering a man's brain alters his character. This has been studied on accidents that destroy brain parts.



Animals worshiping gods?.......huh?


Yes. Animals exhibit ritualistic behaviours concerning celestial bodies, for example.





.....the propability of life created accidentally is almost 1.


if it is so probable, again I ask...Why can't it be replicated?....and I really don't know where you got that statistic in the first place.....


Replication by who? by humans? our knowledge is not up to that, but we will get there sooner or later.

The statistic comes from the number of particles of the universe, its size and the total configurations of molecules being tested simultaneously all over the universe. The universe is so big, the statistical probability of life is very close to 1.





Please read the chaos theory. Out of chaos rises order. That order is life. Just because we do not know every step of the process, it does not make the process false.


like you said, we don't know every step of that process......and who knows for certain that a "creator" didn't factor in somewhere?...


The chaos theory proves there is no invervention. A chaotic set of equations result in a graph that initially seems random, but sooner or later certain spots ("pullers") appear that have a very specific geometric pattern that can be predicted.



for some reason, people are so set against the possibility that humans are not the supreme beings in the universe.....I choose to humble myself in having faith that there is something greater to our existance....

If that is not what you choose, so be it.....Live and let live I guess....


That the humans may not be supreme beings in the universe, I accept. I totally agree with that.

That we are made by someone who puts us in trouble deliberately, I can not accept. It is not logical.



posted on May, 30 2006 @ 05:27 PM
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Originally posted by Prot0n
Who do I believe? You or Alieosidja? I have proof you both are just following in mum 'n pop's footsteps. I have proof that the christian god worship is only 2,000 years old. I have proof that Alieosidja's god worship is 4,000 years old.


All of these Johnny-come-lately gods think they're the bomb. The Green Man, sometimes called Jack-O-Green, has been around even longer than that, and he's still around. Now that's longevity! Go out into the woods some night by yourself and listen. You won't be hearing any Jewish or Christian gods whispering in the shadows. You'll hear the Green Man, and you'll get goose bumps from it because you'll know it's real and true. Those are the old gods of the Earth whispering to you. Not the weak, fake gods of the shepherds and city people.




posted on May, 30 2006 @ 05:29 PM
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Originally posted by Posiden
This is a very easy answer. Think back to when there was nothing at all. Absolutley nothing no atoms no molecules Absolutley nothing... Where do you think everything came from in our solar system and earth the sun if at first we had absolutley nothing? Go deep on that one and put it in perspective. If you think about it, how can science create something from nothing? Answer it can't! So something/someone/higher being had to make it happen. How did he/she/it make it happen when there is nothing at all to make it? Because he/she/it is God.


Ok, I'll bite. And what created God? if nothing can exist without a prior force?



posted on May, 30 2006 @ 05:35 PM
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Originally posted by Paul_Richard
I have yet to come across any evidence of this.


What evidence would you think would be persuasive? Have you actually read the simulation argument?




Originally posted by Paul_Richard
Moreover, mathematical probability points to the Universe being manifested through design and not by accident.


Originally posted by masterp
Nope. It is the exact opposite. The universe is so big that the propability of life created accidentally is almost 1.

Read my quote again. There first has to be a Universe before there can be corporeal life to eventually emerge within it



No. Life jumped out of the universe just like "pullers" pop out of chaos graphs. In fact, fractals like the double helix (recently found in a nebula) is one shape that is possible to pop out of a chaotic graph, for example.



posted on May, 30 2006 @ 05:36 PM
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Originally posted by masterp
That we are made by someone who puts us in trouble deliberately, I can not accept. It is not logical.

The whole notion of any kind of loving god who would go through all the trouble to create us in a certain way, with all of our faults and free will, just to toss us into a firey Hell if we don't bow and scrape for him makes no sense at all.



posted on May, 30 2006 @ 05:37 PM
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Originally posted by Paul_Richard
As a number of people have stated or alluded to in this thread, something cannot emerge from nothingness in a void of space.

That's true.



Why? give us a good reason.

Furthermore, the big bang does not say that there was 'nothing' before it. All it says is that the compressed universe expanded in one big move.

It may be that the universe contracts and expands infinitely. When it contracts, all information is lost.



posted on May, 30 2006 @ 05:38 PM
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Originally posted by Mrknighttime32
Ok you say God was invented but so was science,math and everything else so how can you say science is the key because if man made it then they made it so they could understand the world in their own way. I can say the color red is the color green, and if I was the first to come up with this then it would be right. Or I could have invented math a say that 1+1=7 and then that could be true. Man can make things true for themselves doesnt mean its right.


Science is not "invented". Science is "observed". 1+1=2 was true long before man realized it.



posted on May, 30 2006 @ 05:50 PM
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Before we came up with numbers there were none so 1+1 is not true. And your do have to choose what side you are on,because if you do not then you will be on the side that is going to a place you might not like so much.



posted on May, 30 2006 @ 05:57 PM
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Originally posted by LadyPropag8r
"How can there not be a God" original topic....Faith, the ability to believe in what you don't see. (Hebrews 11) Faith, is a universal law. Most ones who believe in scientific theory did not first hand view the project, so therefore, they must have faith in what they read on the reports as being accurate. Many will choose to believe in history texts. Did Alexander the Great really exist? Does that not take faith that you believe the history texts? Or did you meet him personally?


There are so many historical writings all over the world about the great Alexander.

There are so many writings about God, but none of them is historical.

It's not difficult to believe that a guy with an army conquered half the world, because it has happened many times in the past. You can not refuse all the evidence.

On the other hand, there is no evidence for the existence of God. Nothing. At all.



Do you also believe the Josephus accounts? He was a non partison historian. Faith is all things created on the earth. The car you drive was 1st, an idea in ones mind, 2nd, the blueprints, 3rd, the materials and build. The couch you sit on...the same, the house you live in, the same. Try to think of one thing created that didn't first start as an idea and had the faith to create something not yet seen? Where did we get this trait from? Maybe our Father really is a Creator?


Faith that something can be done is different from faith into a metaphysical entity. Please do not confuse us just because the same word is used.

Faith into building a car comes when I have tested the individual parts or seen them work, so I believe it might be propable...then I do the tests, and my machine either works or not.

Faith into God is not about being propable, it is provided as the absolute truth, without given a chance to make an experiment.



1) If I were a true GOD, I would be ONE supreme being, not hundreds or thousands. Just as ICE. WATER and STEAM, all three are one basis. So am I a fool to believe in God of the Bible (Father, Son, Holy Spirit as ONE?)
2) I would accept my entire human race for redemption. Once again, God of the Bible.


Pure BS. Billions of people were born before Christ and before Christianity or the Judaic God that believed in other religions.



4) Punishment, loves us enough to try and intervene for our betterment.


BS again. "Our betterment". God could have made us in such a way that we wouldn't need any "betterment".



8) We choose what we believe or disbelieve. Would you want to force people to make them believe in you, if you were god?


You implicitely assign human needs to a non-human entity. What does it mean for God to "want"? isn't God perfect? only imperfect beings "want".



I know, I've been there. I choose now to believe, what if we are right?


And why your God is the true one? why isn't another God the true God?



What have we lost in believing in God of the Bible? Ask yourself, what have you lost or gained by not believing? The choice is yours alone to make.


The right question is "what have we lost by believing". We have lost many things:

1) scientific progress for 1500 years. Middle ages, anyone?
2) if people did not believe in fate (that's what religion is, ultimately), then we would have true democracy: no poor people, no Africans starving, no wars, etc. Because society would be balanced much better.



*Worship, is an expression from the heart not demanded. Jesus said to worship in spirit and in truth. Fans of sports, movie, or music stars aren't forced to worship them or cheer them on, neither are christians.


No. One of the rules of being a Christian is to attend the mysteries of Church, and to get the body and blood of Christ every Saturday. You also have not to eat meat on Wednesday and Friday, and to tell your sins to the local priest once in a while. You should also not think about sex, because it is a sin, even if you can not sleep at nights because you have a hardon.

Somehow God puts in my body "temptations" that I am supposed to fight, even if they do no harm (as, for example, making love).



*Reguarding the evils of hunger, bad things happening. Hunger is due to mankinds selfishness not to share and for others refuse to work. The earth contains plenty. As far as the bad things, they can work to our good if we learn from it we have gained precious wisdom. Also some bad things happen because of our bad choices.


Exactly. Just like the bad things happen because of our choices, the good things are also results of our choices. That is because actually there is no God (no God, Allah, Buddha, Zeus, you name it).



* Last post, I promise I will shut up! LOL! there are such a thing as christian scientists and I hope maybe some of you will visit www.reasons.org...


It is a totally illogical site made from totally illogical reasons that any knowledgable person can debunk in a second.



posted on May, 30 2006 @ 06:00 PM
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Originally posted by Mrknighttime32
Before we came up with numbers there were none so 1+1 is not true. And your do have to choose what side you are on,because if you do not then you will be on the side that is going to a place you might not like so much.


You have 1 atom on the left and one atom on the right. How many god damn friggin atoms do you have?

Do you really have to believe in a fairy tale constructed by man to conduct common decency and morals?

Or, can you be a free thinking individual who is capable of being a decent person towards fellow man?



posted on May, 30 2006 @ 06:06 PM
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You have 1 atom on the left and one atom on the right. How many god damn friggin atoms do you have?

Do you really have to believe in a fairy tale constructed by man to conduct common decency and morals?

Or, can you be a free thinking individual who is capable of being a decent person towards fellow man?



Do you have to be so prideful to believe that man is the one true thing and so perfect. The truth is that you dont want to see God and dont want to believe, but you wont give the real reason I dont know why.



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