How Can There Not Be A God

Also I will never understand why it is so hard for some people to believe that God created them.

Originally posted by Mrknighttime32
Also I will never understand why it is so hard for some people to believe that God created them.

It's not that, it's just the way the curch tells it.

Originally posted by Mrknighttime32
Also I will never understand why it is so hard for some people to believe that God created them.

I will never understand why it is so easy for some people to believe that God created them.

there is no god only entities who visited us in the past and they had (technology ) powers we didn't understand they could fly with ships and they could cure deceases . this doesn't proof they are gods only entities which are further in there development.
then there where some powerhungry people who made the stories of visiting entities in gods and angels made the bible and then they did take power over people until the day of today . people who thinks they are powerhungry are had proof they were wrong were labeled as witch and burned on a pile of wood. and people who claimed that earth wasn't the center of galaxy and the sun was revolving our planet but that earth circled the sun were also murdered.
so no god doesn't excist and about jesus.. people through time will not be remembered by the thinks they did' good but what they did wrong . and evil persons are remembered longer also.
for example napoleon , julius cesar , hitler , as we remember sadam in the future as dictorial leader of iraq and even pharao's are remembered until today and because why???
because they were evil doing people they killed people who didn't do what they want and the same is with jesus, we only hear the side of the story of the church who claim he is good but what of the people who were killed because of him or by the people which followed him.
even I am a victim of the evil doing of jesus because I have to life in a world with powerhungry people who claim that there is a god and that is the reason I am not able to step in my car and fly to the moon and well beyond.
the church used god to say that we didn't were allowed to create something because it would undermine there position and that is why the church prosecuted scientist and redecule science as magic and that they were satanic.
if there was a god in the way mayor religions claim why are we all suffering , because of religion and because of war , poverty and deceases ect?
simple because religion need suffering to claim the hold over there victims , the more suffer the more followers they have.
I went to christian schools from age of 4 until well in my early 20s but what I learned and what I found out because of books about science and what really is going on I stepped away of religion like christianity.
allmost all religions based on christianity and islam are having war ect.
against eachother also.
but hindu's and budhist ect I don't hear about them in things like mass killing and war ect throught the ages only moslims and christians have killed masses of people. like in armenia, like the aztecs and other groups of people in south america and mexico, and even in the US were the before states excisted they killed and murdered indians. and recently they have killing in indonesia under moslims and christians.
that is why there is no god and why religion is wrong.

Let's say for the sake of this thread that someone was able to raise a child without any concept of religion or God. If the child asked a question and the parents and teachers were able to give relatively sound scientific answers to every question, would the child believe, need, want or desire a God? What would happen when the child reached a point in their life that the concept of religion and God was introduced and the child had a grasp of science that isn't influenced by religion, would that child find religion a necessary pursuit?

Peer pressure is a very strong aphrodesiac, I have found, but my kids think God and religion are basically stupid concepts.

[edit on 2-6-2006 by supradave]

There is a Buddhist saying... If you meed Buddha on the road, kill him.

Why does there need to be a God?

If God created us, what created God?

If God wasn't created but always was, what did God do for the infinite amount of time prior to creating the first thing (thought, object, whatever)?

What imperfection in that infinite existence of God prompted God to create?

Have you ever met God, whether in waking or dreaming? How did you know it was God? If God speaks to you, how do you know? If God evolves us to His plan, how can you be certain? Why wouldn't we be able to see, hear, taste, touch or smell God? Why is it that we have to think about God? Why does God cost money (tithing)?

Your statement is predicated on the false assumption that the Universe did not always exist. Once you see the truth, that the Universe has no beginning and no end, you will realize that accidents have plenty of opportunities to happen.

I saw a fascinating documetary on modern Jesuit Priests. The documentary was very fascinating because it focussed on the Jesuits assimilation of science into Christianity. They are intelligent men with serious scientific backgrounds, they just happen to be wholely faithful to God.

One point that was made was the idea that we were an accident. THe idea that God exists, and formed the universe in all it's glory, and then left it to do as it would. It just happened that life emerged, and was a pleasent surprise for 'God'.

I just wanted to add that 1 + 1 equals 1... pair.

And that I've never seen anything that wasn't composed of a combination of other things. Even atoms have component parts So the notion of there being "1" of something only makes sense in mathematics, and that there's no such thing as a single, indivisible thing in the real world.

While this debate is certainly an interesting one, I don't know that it will come to any fruits.

While I was living in South America as a missionary for my church, I wrote a series of letters with a close friend of mine who is an atheist. We took advantage of the written letter format to debate this exact topic, does god exist. We argued for about a year and a half, and concluded that the belief in God is something that is a personal decision. There is evidence in both directions, and the individual will interpret the evidence how they wish.

Faith is not something emperical that can be boiled down in a test tube or understood mathematically. It is simply a belief in what you cannot see. For some, it takes no more faith to believe in God than it does to believe in quarks, something so small we cannot observe it with our five senses.

I think Douglas Adams (a staunch atheist) best pointed out the rediculousness of using logic and reason to debate the existance of God best in his classic book, the HitchHiker's Guide to the Galaxy:

The Babel fish is small, yellow and leech-like, and probably the oddest thing in the Universe. It feeds on brainwave energy recieved not from its own carrier but from those around it, It absorbs all unconscious mental frequencies from this brainwave energy to nourish itself with. the practical upshot of this is that if you stick a Babel fish in your ear you can instantly understand anything said to you in any language.

Now it is such a bizarrely improbable coincidence that anhthing so mind-bogglingly useful could have evolved purely by chance that some thinkers have chosen to see as a final and clinching proof of the non-existence of God. The argument goes like this : "I refuse to prove that I exist", says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."

"But", says Man, "the Babel fish is a dead giveaway isn't it? it could not have evolved by chance. it proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED."

"Oh dear", says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.

"Oh that was easy" says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed on the next zebra crossing.

dont you mean lack of evidence either way?

in my opinion for another poster there is always a beginning a middle and an end...example our life, this planet or our star.

Originally posted by minority2000uk
Dont you mean lack of evidence either way?

I suppose it's a kind of quantum indeterminancy. Schrodinger's Cat, but instead of a cat in the box, it's God. But with Schrodinger's Cat, the assumption is that there is an actual cat in the box. The question is whether or not it's alive or dead when you open it.

The notion of a "God in the Box" is whether or not the box is empty or actually contains a God. There's no evidence either way, but we're also not able to make an assumption that there's a God in there in the first place. So it's not just a matter of either/or.

There might be a God in the box, there might not be a God in the box, but there also might be something besides God in there. There might be a lugnut. There might be a cat. There might be a slice of chocolate cake. So out of maybe an infinity of possible things that are in the box, God is only one of them. The odds of their a God being in the box are:

1/∞ = 0

Of course, the odds of human beings existing in the Universe is pretty much the same, except that we already know that human beings exist, whereas God remains a theoretical concept.

Originally posted by supradave
Let's say for the sake of this thread that someone was able to raise a child without any concept of religion or God. If the child asked a question and the parents and teachers were able to give relatively sound scientific answers to every question, would the child believe, need, want or desire a God? What would happen when the child reached a point in their life that the concept of religion and God was introduced and the child had a grasp of science that isn't influenced by religion, would that child find religion a necessary pursuit?

Peer pressure is a very strong aphrodesiac, I have found, but my kids think God and religion are basically stupid concepts.

[edit on 2-6-2006 by supradave]

THIS MAKES NO SINCE BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE BROUGHT UP AND TOUGHT BOTH SO HOW COULD YOU TAKE OUT GOD AND LEAVE SCIENCE WHY NOT DO IT THE OTHER WAY. AND ALSO IT IS A PROVEN FACT THAT PEOPLE SEEK OUT A HIGHER POWER ANYWAY AND THERE ISA REASON FOR THAT BECAUSE GOD PULLS THEM TOWARDS HIM

I never understand these arguments, on one hand we're susposed to believe that all the elements to create the earth and life just exsisted, but not that an intelligent source existed. For those who ask, who made God? Well who made the elements.

To me God is a beyond infinite brilliant scientist, he created and crafted endless beauty and universes. we try to blot him out because we can't easily explain him, we can't wrap our minds around him being here forever or being omnipotent. I can't look out my window and see ants scurrying about with purpose and not know That they were designed by an intelligent God.

It also helps me that I fell into the pool at the YMCA when I was younger, nobody knew I slipped in, the water covered my head and I couldn't swim, so I'm just standing umder there breathing, and the peaceful strange glow, looking around, found the ladder and climbed back up.

Originally posted by Paul_Richard

Originally posted by Mrknighttime32


Third, aren't gods supposed to be COMPASSIONATE and MORALLY RESPONSIBLE?

Why is Jesus allowing many priests, ministers - and some nuns too - who preach in his name no less, to sexually molest and in some cases RAPE thousands of innocent children around the world?

They have a name for people like that in the legal system. They are called ENABLERS.

At the very least, Jesus is an ENABLER for PEDOPHILE ATROCITIES in his own churches!

A poor god indeed.

Although man must be held accountable for his own free will, it is common to think that Satan has caused the evil in this world.

However, it is too typical of man to place the blame for his own actions on another. Adam did it in the Garden of Eden, for goodness' sake.

Here, we have an example of this. Man commits horrible atrocities, then man accuses Jesus of being an "enabler" to these atrocities when man commits them. If God doesn't exist, then how could Jesus possibly be an "enabler" to mankind's evil ways?

In addition, I would go so far as to suggest that Jesus is the MOST compassionate God there is. Beings who treat eachother this way DESERVE TO DIE. They do NOT deserve to be given another chance. They CERTAINLY didn't deserve for God to come down here in the flesh, as a man named Jesus, to DIE for US! But He did.

Because God considers every sin to be equally evil. A child molester is no more evil in the eyes of God than a liar or a thief. And God would not have that any of His children perish. So every one of us continues to be allowed to receive Him as our Saviour, until the day of His return.

In addition, I saw an earlier post where it said that no proof that Jesus will return has been provided. There is a scripture that says that the Lord will do nothing but that He revealeth it to His prophets. I would recommend you read up on the prophecies from the books of Daniel and Revelation. Then if you have any questions, please feel free to ask. But it is coming sooner than you could ever realize. I hope we all are ready.

Bliu

THIS MAKES NO SINCE BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE BROUGHT UP AND TOUGHT BOTH SO HOW COULD YOU TAKE OUT GOD AND LEAVE SCIENCE WHY NOT DO IT THE OTHER WAY. AND ALSO IT IS A PROVEN FACT THAT PEOPLE SEEK OUT A HIGHER POWER ANYWAY AND THERE ISA REASON FOR THAT BECAUSE GOD PULLS THEM TOWARDS HIM

For starters, you don't need ALL CAPS. Secondly, proven fact my hairy butt. I don't seek out a higher power, many "atheists don't seek out a higher power. The only people who seemingly seek out a higher power are those RAISED TO DO SO. You should be slapped with your bible for that post.

So many pages and so many questions and yet the "one book" (as someone so elequently put it back there) has all the answers. As far as there only being one book, you gotta admit, it's pretty complete for a single book. But I would suggest that God considered us as what we really are.........lazy. If there was a thousand more parts, would we really read it? I have all the faith in the world in Jesus, but sadly I still havent read the whole bible and i'm 34 now, yes, I'm ashamed.I will, but you know how it goes.Ok (in a nutshell) I'll answer what I came across. Why one book? It's all we need. But be wise knowing that the bible clarifies even that question. (See John 21:25)"And there are also many other things that Jesus did,the which,if they should be written every one,I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written".
As for Natural Selection? That doesn't make sense just because you say it does? This world is fine tuned in every way and there is evil in the world and things get eaten and killed and so do "good people", but keep in mind who the bible says is still in control of the earth until relieved from duty by Jesus? That's right Satan. Do you expect anything other than the strong bullying the weak? It's not natural selection it's having a boss who will let you get away with murder because he knows the time is short and the only way to hurt God, is by hurting us. That's not natural selection in itself but strong bullying the weak is all the same to me.
There are natural unexplained truths that can't be explained even by scientists such as symbiosis of animals.Take for instance, the "cleaner fish" can swim into a sharks mouth freely and pick his teeth and get fed and instead of chomping down on him the shark gets free dentistry, this is a business tradeoff between an instinctive killer and what should be food to him.The other fish are his dinner. Also there is a bird that does this for crocs and aligators. Birds fly in a "V" motion for a specific reason, they can get 300+ more miles by a simple concept of riding the airwaves of the bird just in front of them and at a specific angle which saves them energy, the bird ifront will then be relieved when tired by falling to the back and another will replace him in the front.This was adopted by our airforce. I am guessing that this natural selection also stems from the belief of the "BIG BANG". I was in the military and all I know is that an explosion of any kind has never created anything but a mess.Gods word gives you a detailed schematic how everything all started, and it's not much for the untrained eye to behold, but the more you study it.......the more detailed it becomes, brilliant!
Someone said on the first few pages that we now know scientifically that there are no demons in middle earth and know more about the inner earth than space, well, WE KNOW NOTHING! JUST FOUND IN ISRAEL: (source: www.msnbc.msn.com... )
Israeli scientists have discovered an ancient ecosystem containing eight previously unknown species in a lake inside a cave, where they were completely sheltered from the outside world for millions of years.
The cave, located 328 feet (100 meters) below ground in a limestone quarry, includes tunnels that extend about a mile and a half (2.5 kilometers). Inside, a large underground lake holds the previously unknown species, some similar to scorpions and shrimp.
“This is a very unique ecosystem that is completely isolated from the surface,” said Frumkin, a cave researcher in the geography department of Hebrew University in Jerusalem".
I can't answer everything, but I know a book that can, if we read it. The Bible.
I'll go out on this last note. How do we know that Jesus is the only way? Because TIME itself id labeled B.C. (Before Christ) and Anno Domini (in the year of our lord), that is until recently now its BCE (before common era)....Ever wonder why they are attacking Christ so much lately?

[edit on 3-6-2006 by Phenomium]

As you can see the above find was only 100 meters down. Just when science thinks they have an answer, another question arises. That's the problem with science, so many theories and hardly any real tangible, concrete evidence....except for the obvious things. Then they just dig in their books and try to confuse everyone who didn't go to college because they think it gives them weight.(as an example of this someone might say What is America? no wait "What is Fascism?" and a scientist (political scientist) may answer, "well, it's a centralized autocratic national regime with extremely nationalistic properties with an economic system based on state controlled capitalism". When they could have said, it's a country ran by a jerk who enslaves the people by controlling what little money he allows them to have.
This is typically the way most science works,(not all of you scientists, the ones I refer to know who they are, just wait they will comment shortly) anyway, they confuse so you will just have to take what they say because you dont have the collegiate background to contest them, thus they are considered worthy to be heard and you are a plebian....get back to work (add whip sound here).There are tons more examples, but I can't kill the forum here, read the Bible like I will soon and it will all be revealed. I also have personal testimony of Jesus doing things in my life like helping me quit smoking, I couldnt quit drinking (I tried so many times) and when I broke down and asked the Lord.... I promise to you, in one day flat I quit drinking after like 18 years of hard drinking non-stop, almost daily. Quit drugs too.Thanks to God.
I'll leave on this note (1 Timothy 6:20) "O Timothy, keep that which is commited to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called: Which some professing have erred concerning the faith".
(2 Timothy 2:16) "But shun profane and vain babbling: for they will increase unto more ungodliness."
God bless you all, yes you too unbelievers, Jesus loves you just as much as all. Hope the unbelievers at least consider (a wise scientist would even weigh both sides).
I prey that you guys give Jesus a chance, before you were even born he knew you.
(Luke 15:4) "What man of you having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it? And when he hath found it on his shoulders rejoicing....I say unto you, likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons,which need no repentance."
....................He is waiting for you. At Jesus' birth there were wise men than came to seek him and found him,................wise men, I tell you, still seek him today! God Bless all of you.

[edit on 3-6-2006 by Phenomium]

[edit on 3-6-2006 by Phenomium]

Originally posted by Phenomium
So many pages and so many questions and yet the "one book" (as someone so elequently put it back there) has all the answers. As far as there only being one book, you gotta admit, it's pretty complete for a single book.... I have all the faith in the world in Jesus, but sadly I still havent read the whole bible and i'm 34 now,

For one thing if it was such a complete book with all the answers why doesn't the whole world worship the same god. Secondly, how would you know that its complete with all the answers when you havent even read the wole thing.

As for Natural Selection? That doesn't make sense just because you say it does? ....There are natural unexplained truths that can't be explained even by scientists such as symbiosis of animals.Take for instance, the "cleaner fish" can swim into a sharks mouth freely and pick his teeth and get fed and instead of chomping down on him the shark gets free dentistry, this is a business tradeoff between an instinctive killer and what should be food to him.The other fish are his dinner. Also there is a bird that does this for crocs and aligators. Birds fly in a "V" motion for a specific reason, they can get 300+ more miles by a simple concept of riding the airwaves of the bird just in front of them and at a specific angle which saves them energy,

Just because it makes no sense to you doesnt make it any less correct, you have also answered your own question on symbiosis it is a business tradeoff and also maybe the cleaner fish tastes horrible to the shark. Also what has the way birds fly got to do with natural selection?

Gods word gives you a detailed schematic how everything all started, and it's not much for the untrained eye to behold, but the more you study it.......the more detailed it becomes, brilliant!..... I can't answer everything, but I know a book that can, if we read it. The Bible.I'll go out on this last note. How do we know that Jesus is the only way? Because TIME itself id labeled B.C. (Before Christ) and Anno Domini (in the year of our lord), that is until recently now its BCE (before common era)....Ever wonder why they are attacking Christ so much lately?

[edit on 3-6-2006 by Phenomium]

Where is this detailed schematic? Its not Genesis anyway. Sorry but the bible CANT answer everything and doesnt even explain much anyway. Finally BC and AD are christian inventions and not all timelines use this i.e the Hebrew and Chinese calendars, It was due to colonisation that the Gregorian calendar is the most widely used. Also wasn't jesus supposed to have been born about 6BC.

G

I don't see any evidence of a god ever existing or existing right now. Jesus might have existed but there isn't much substantial evidence besides of a religious tale. If the biblical god is a perfect being than he would have created a perfect creation. Maybe some of the religious people do see it as perfect, which means they would be content with murder, rape, lies, war, disease, environmental destruction, etc, which is part of everyday life on this planet. As a non-believer I am thankful with myself that I am NOT content with the way things are, and do not see it as 'perfect' or that god made people or things to turn out a certain way. Like many religious people will say will that some people are destined to heaven and some to hell because it's all in 'god's plan'
Sorry I don't buy it. I might acknowledge the message that Jesus tried to bring to humanity but it's all been submerged under dogma and corruption.