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Reasons for Why Iraq Was Better of Under Saddam…

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posted on May, 28 2006 @ 06:14 PM
Oh, and in case you were left in any doubt... more "propaganda" from the Japan Times in this article:

"Most (journalists) are embedded with U.S. forces or operate from the Green Zone, a walled fortress in central Baghdad. As a result, few people in the West, or in Japan, have seen the true extent of the damage and suffering in Fallujah, while the U.S. government continues to deny responsibility for the cancer and leukemia outbreaks."

"The world has seen little of the devastation wrought by U.S. troops on the city of Fallujah," Rasheed said. "Entire neighborhoods were destroyed and the number of innocent civilians killed and maimed the bombing was quite high."

So you think the US is going to reconstruct the whole neighbourhoods destroyed in Fallujah? Or take any responsibility for the cancer and leukaemia outbreaks?

posted on May, 28 2006 @ 09:23 PM
So says Aristide to some very liberal news sources. And yep, propaganda man. I'm not going to believe any edited news crew video. They are never accurate. I go by the words of soldiers themselves there, not any news video.

If you want a source, read Tom Clancy's guide to the Special Forces for what I said.

And nope, I do not think forcing hostile armies onto other countries will win over friends, I said liberating a people and staying the course to rebuild their infrastructure will win over friends. And trust me, if the U.S. military was being very hostile over there, it would on the mainstream news. When the soldiers in Vietnam started executing the members of a village, it was caught, and that was then. There are Marines undergoing investigation right now because it has been claimed they executed civilian Iraqis, and they think the claims are legit. Over-zealous military folk don't get away with murder.

And you can say what you want about the U.S.'s popularity dropping worldwide; more people immigrate to the United States every year than any other nation. And American popular culture is worldwide.

posted on May, 28 2006 @ 10:24 PM
The News is far more centrally owned that it was during Vietnam. Furthermore in some Iraq is more dangerous (I think I heard that more journalists had been killed there than in Vietnam).
I believe the Ministry of Defence Poll showing that 65% of the Iraqi population support attacks against our troops, I believe almost none believe we are there for their interests. In fact the last bit is completely accurate, the biggest reason being is that we know Iraq will become an Iran 2 unless over 60% of the population are opressed.
As for you saying most troops you've met say Iraqis love us, well i''m not surprised. Because if I was an Iraqi insurgent I would not be speaking my mind to a man in uniform, and if I was a civillian I would not want top associate myself or my neighbourhood with the insurgency. Iraq is very much a place where speaking your mind can get you killed, and though we usually just send them to Gitmo I would be desperate to avoid that as well.
And you do know that just about all armyies of the world run their own propaganda units for their troops? The U.S is no exception call it Phyops or whatever else its the same thing, for the same reasons.

posted on Jun, 10 2006 @ 03:26 AM
Here's more... Greg Palast, a superb investigative reporter, does it again.

In this extract from his forthcoming book he describes how Jay Garner, originally placed in charge of Iraq, was sacked and replaced by Paul Bremer, because he actually wanted to bring democracy to the Iraqis. This, however, would have impeded Bushco's plans to asset-strip Iraq because a freely-elected Iraqi government would never allow this.

Garner promised elections within 90 days.

A full assessment and detailed plans to asset-strip the oil industry in particular was estimated at 270 days.

So Garner was replaced by Paul Bremer (III), Kissinger Associates henchman, who would preside over the corporate looting of the country.

"My preference," Garner told me in his understated manner, "was to put the Iraqis in charge as soon as we can and do it in some form of elections."

But elections were not in The Plan.

The Plan was a 101-page document to guide the long-term future of the land we'd just conquered. There was nothing in it about democracy or elections or safety. There was, rather, a detailed schedule for selling off "all [Iraq's] state assets" -- and Iraq, that's just about everything -- "especially," said The Plan, "the oil and supporting industries." Especially the oil.

There was more than oil to sell off. The Plan included the sale of Iraq's banks, and weirdly, changing it's copyright laws and other odd items that made the plan look less like a program for Iraq to get on its feet than a program for corporate looting of the nation's assets. (And indeed, we discovered at BBC, behind many of the odder elements -- copyright and tax code changes -- was the hand of lobbyist Jack Abramoff's associate Grover Norquist.)

But Garner didn't think much of The Plan, he told me when we met a year later in Washington. He had other things on his mind. "You prevent epidemics, you start the food distribution program to prevent famine."

Seizing title and ownership of Iraq's oil fields was not on Garner's must-do list. He let that be known to Washington. "I don't think [Iraqis] need to go by the U.S. plan, I think that what we need to do is set an Iraqi government that represents the freely elected will of the people." He added, "It's their country … their oil."

Apparently, the Secretary of Defense disagreed. So did lobbyist Norquist. And Garner incurred their fury by getting carried away with the "democracy" idea: he called for quick elections -- within 90 days of the taking of Baghdad.

But Garner's 90-days-to-elections commitment ran straight into the oil sell-off program. Annex D of the plan indicated that would take at least 270 days -- at least 9 months.

Worse, Garner was brokering a truce between Sunnis, Shias and Kurds. They were about to begin what Garner called a "Big Tent" meeting to hammer out the details and set the election date. He figured he had 90 days to get it done before the factions started slitting each other's throats.

posted on Jun, 10 2006 @ 04:40 AM
And some more coverage of how things have really perked up for women [/sarcasm] in the wonderful new world of Iraq:

For the women of Iraq, the war is just beginning

The women of Basra have disappeared. Three years after the US-led invasion of Iraq, women's secular freedoms - once the envy of women across the Middle East - have been snatched away because militant Islam is rising across the country.

Across Iraq, a bloody and relentless oppression of women has taken hold. Many women had their heads shaved for refusing to wear a scarf or have been stoned in the street for wearing make-up. Others have been kidnapped and murdered for crimes that are being labelled simply as "inappropriate behaviour". The insurrection against the fragile and barely functioning state has left the country prey to extremists whose notion of freedom does not extend to women.

"Liberation". Right.

posted on Jun, 12 2006 @ 11:10 PM

Originally posted by WheelsRCool
Thousands of Iraqis dying each month and U.S. death squads? The media would have a field day with that...

You strike me as very naive. The major media networks report selectively and biasedly in order to support the special interest groups and funders behind them, who naturally have their own political agenda. You should dig into this some more. You'd be suprised at who calls the shots in these networks. For a start, does the oh so frequent sensationalization seem unbiased to you? It all has deep roots, and its purpose is to create a mass of people like you.

If you let all your views and knowledge be formed by the media, education system, and popular opinion, then you are going to be truly misinformed, and the sad fact is.. like right now.. you're totally unwilling to beleive anything that challenges it.

The reality out there my friend, is very very different. If you care to take a peek. But I'm sure you're very comfortable in your 'safe' righteous bubble.

That is the tragedy of our times.

posted on Jun, 21 2006 @ 02:30 AM
It seems that Ramadi is developing into this summer's Fallujah.

On May 27, American troops arrested seven journalists of international, Arab and local press agencies. The next day, the US carried out air raids on the city, resulting in eight deaths (three of whom were children and a woman) and fifteen wounded. The western press apparently did not see anything. On May 30, Free Arab Voice reported five civilians killed, among them a woman and a child. Al Sharqiya TV also mentioned the incident, but once again, it was not announced in the western press. On June 5, five people were killed in an air raid: two children, an elder, and two women. Among the fifteen injured were nine students who were taking their final exams for school at the time of the bombing. The same day, hundreds of fresh troops arrived at Anbar, most of them were stationed in Ramadi. When the army began to seal off the city on June 6, the situation became deadly serious. Water and electricity were cut off and fuel stations were closed down. Medical stores were bombed, all the hospitals were closed and first aid supplies were confiscated. In an attempt to avert the looming major offensive, resistance fighters decided to withdraw from the city. Apparently, this move did not effect the occupation’s plans. On June 9, the first attacks began. The western media resembles the sleeping beauty. Except for an article in the LA Times, at the time of writing this article, no report on the operation can be found in the western press on the internet. All have their eyes still on Zarqawi in a media-induced trance Meanwhile, on Monday, 12 June, Al-Quds reported that the US Army had issued an ultimatum to Ramadi residents.[21] By June 15, they should turn in all the resistance fighters – what an irrational demand! – or face a massive attack. Again, as in Fallujah, those civilians who have no financial means to leave or no place to go, will be portrayed as ‘terrorists’ or ‘foreign fighters’ after they are killed, in order to clean up the face of this dirty war.

And even the US Ambassador doesn't think the situation is good: his recent cablepaints a rather gloomy picture:

6. (SBU) One colleague beseeched us to weigh in to help a neighbor who was uprooted in May from her home of 30 years, on the pretense of application of some long-disused law that allows owners to evict tenants after 14 years. The woman, a Fayli Kurd, says she has nowhere to go. no other home, but the courts give them no recourse to this new assertion of power. Such uprootings may be a response by new Shiite government authorities to similar actions against Arabs by Kurds in other parts of Iraq. ( MOTE: An Arab newspaper editor told us he is preparing an extensive survey of ethnic cleansing, which he said is taking place in almost every Iraqi province , as political parties and their militias are seemingly engaged in tit-for-tat reprisals all over Iraq. One editor told us that the KDP is now planning to set up tent cities in Irbil, to house Kurds being evicted from Baghdad.)

7. Temperatures in Baghdad have already reached 115 degrees. employees all confirm that by the last week of May, they were getting one hour of power for every six hours without. That was only about four hours of power a day for the city. By early June, the situation had improved slightly, In Hai Si Shaab. power has recently improved from one in six to one in three hours. Other staff report similar variances. Central Baghdad neighborhood Bab al Muathama has had no city power for over a month. Areas near hospitals, political party headquarters, and the green zone have the best supply, in some eases reaching 24 hours. One staff member reported that a friend lives in a building that houses a new minister; within 2l hours of his appointment, her building had City power 24 hours a day....

9. (SEW Fuel lines have also taxed out- staff, One employee told us May 29 that he had spent 12 hours on his day off (Saturday) waiting to get gas. Another staff member confirmed that shortages were so dire, prices on the black market in much of Baghdad were now above 1,000 Iraqi dinars per liter (the official, subsidized price is 250 ID).

11. (SBU) In April, employees began reporting a change in demeanor of guards at the green zone checkpoints. They seemed to be more militia-like, in some cases seemingly taunting. One employee asked us to explore getting her press credentials because guards had held her embassy badge up and proclaimed loudly to nearby passers-by ‘Embassy’ as she entered Such information is a death sentence if overheard by the wrong people.

There's plenty more where that came from. And it's funny, we've all heard about the soldiers who were captured and tortured (and of course the US would never torture captured Iraqis, and kill them... no, wait, they would) and we've seen their weeping relatives... but where are the reports on the people killed in Ramadi? Where are the interviews with their weeping relatives? Is this supposed to be "fair and balanced"? Do we get an interview with the guy who was driving his pregnant sister to hospital when US snipers shot her and her sister-in-law in the head as they sat in the back of his car as he was trying to get them to the hospital?

posted on Jul, 2 2006 @ 04:29 AM
And there's always more, it seems:

The Baghdad morgue is out of space to hold bodies.

June 30 (UPI) -- Baghdad's morgue has run out room to store bodies as more victims of smoldering violence in the Iraqi capital are delivered.

More than 100 bodies are being held at room temperature because morgue refrigerators are full, inspector-general of Iraq's health ministry Adil Abdul Muhsin told Al-Mada news.

posted on Jul, 2 2006 @ 09:38 PM

Originally posted by Liberal1984

The News is far more centrally owned that it was during Vietnam. Furthermore in some Iraq is more dangerous (I think I heard that more journalists had been killed there than in Vietnam).

More jornalists have been killed in ratio to soldiers in Iraq than in any war in history -- and not by a small amount.

Many of us here have probably seen the footage where the American tank fired on the hotel where journalists were staying. Clearly no accident. But there is also a randomness of killing (IEDs, etc) that is getting more than frontline troops. So I'm not suggesting that journalists have been widely targeted.

But it doesn't help when American leaders openly propose bombing foreign news centers.

posted on Jul, 3 2006 @ 03:51 AM
I totally agree with liberal 1984.
True if you did jack against Saddam during his regin you were in big trouble, but besides that Iraq was an awesome place. Very western, very liberal, very forward especially for the women etc.. I was there between 86-88 and though I was only 4-5 years old, as far as I can remember it was a very developed society.We had the occassionally scare with a scud here and there but they used to sound cool at the time too

posted on Jul, 5 2006 @ 09:49 AM
Here is an article that details the experiences of an American reporter in Iraq. What makes this different is what he calls his "melanin advantage". He looks like an Iraqi, and speaks Arabic, too - and picked up the Baghdad dialect very quickly, a priority to better his chances of survival.

He has seen the war from both sides - both as an embedded reporter with the troops, and as someone who could walk around Baghdad more freely than any Caucasian.

My skin color and language skills allowed me to relate to the American occupier in a different way, for he looked at me as if I were just another haji, the “gook” of the war in Iraq. I first realized my advantage in April 2003, when I was sitting with a group of American soldiers and another soldier walked up and wondered what this haji (me) had done to get arrested by them. Later that summer I walked in the direction of an American tank and heard one soldier say about me, “That’s the biggest #in’ Iraqi (pronounced eye-raki) I ever saw.” A soldier by the gun said, “I don’t care how big he is, if he doesn’t stop movin’ I’m gonna shoot him.”

I was lucky enough to have an American passport in my pocket, which I promptly took out and waved, shouting: “Don’t shoot! I’m an American!” It was my first encounter with hostile American checkpoints but hardly my last, and I grew to fear the unpredictable American military, which could kill me for looking like an Iraqi male of fighting age. Countless Iraqis were not lucky enough to speak American English or carry a U.S. passport, and often entire families were killed in their cars when they approached American checkpoints.

There are many stories in this long article and it's really worth a read.

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