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Lodges not under grand lodges?

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posted on May, 21 2006 @ 09:31 PM
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I forget is it something to do with AF&M or F&M or the like?

I remember reading some lodges are not under the northern or southern grand lodge. Can anyone clarify if this is true for one. If so is there a list or a few examples of these lodges online?

Last if a lodge is run not under neither grand lodge can they go by their own rules?

Has anyone had first hand experience with one of these lodges?

Thanks you for your help on this matter.




posted on May, 22 2006 @ 08:33 AM
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Originally posted by 32genroman
I forget is it something to do with AF&M or F&M or the like?

I remember reading some lodges are not under the northern or southern grand lodge. Can anyone clarify if this is true for one. If so is there a list or a few examples of these lodges online?


In the United States, each state, along with the District of Columbia, has its own Grand Lodge (making 51 Grand Lodges in the US). Grand Lodges call their organizations either F&AM, AF&AM, or AFM (Free and Accepted Mason, Ancient Free and Accepted Masons, and Ancient Free Masons, respectively). The reasons different states have these different titles is technical, so I won't go into here: suffice it to say that they all recognize each other as legitimate Masonic Grand Lodges.

When you speak of the "Northern and Southern", you may be thinking about the Scottish Rite in the US. The first Supreme Council of the 33° of the Scottish Rite was founded in Charleston, South Carolina, in 1801, which chartered Scottish Rite Temples across the US. Soon after, irregular organizations such as Cerneau Rite began popping up in the northeast, and masons confused them with the Scottish Rite.

Since the Supreme Council was way down in Charleston, it had trouble combatting the problem in New York and New England, so it chartered another Supreme Council in the northeast to govern the Rite there. Today, these two Supreme Councils are known as Southern Jurisdiction and Northern Jurisdiction.

The two Supreme Councils recognize each other, and the Northern Jurisdiction recognizes the Southern as Mother Council of the World. The Northern Jurisdiction is, however, completely autonomous and independent.

There are big differences in the rituals used by the two Supreme Councils. The Northern Jurisdiction uses a ritual similar to the original Patents, while the Southern Jurisdiction uses various versions of the Pike revisions.

All regular Lodges are chartered by a recognized Grand Lodge. If they do not have such a charter, they are clandestine, and regular Masons are forbidden to hold any Masonic communication with their members.



posted on May, 23 2006 @ 12:02 AM
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Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Now as you state the Northern versus Souther SR degree are different, do you know how much they differ? I am assuming blue lodges are very close to the same in the degrees besides subtle state to state differences?

One time I stumbled on a site that required membership that was for degree/ritual research. It had discontinued degrees and degrees that were just not up to snuff. I remember seeing degrees as high as 6x or 8x and the like. Many of the degrees were very unfamilar for the little I have seen. Do you know of a site or branch that specializes in this?

Thanks I appreciate your detailed in replies with all this.



posted on May, 23 2006 @ 07:43 AM
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Originally posted by 32genroman
Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Now as you state the Northern versus Souther SR degree are different, do you know how much they differ? I am assuming blue lodges are very close to the same in the degrees besides subtle state to state differences?


The rituals used by the different state Grand Lodges are all extremely similar. Most of the differences in the Blue Degrees are just slight differences in wording.

As for the Scottish Rite, the Northern Jurisdiction's ritual is very similar to the French Patents, and focus in large parts on the Templar legend. This is also true for the Southern Jurisdiction, but in the S.J. there is much more philosophy and mysticism added to the degrees, which are not strictly of a chivalrous nature as in the N.J.


One time I stumbled on a site that required membership that was for degree/ritual research. It had discontinued degrees and degrees that were just not up to snuff. I remember seeing degrees as high as 6x or 8x and the like. Many of the degrees were very unfamilar for the little I have seen. Do you know of a site or branch that specializes in this?


If you still have a link, I could take a look at it. Without actually seeing it I couldn't say, as they could be practically anything.



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